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Opening Crawl Grammar Flub

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Jaxxon, Dec 27, 2017.

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Should the grammar be fixed for the home release?

  1. Yes! Grammar is important

    10 vote(s)
    43.5%

  2. No, don't change my movies

    3 vote(s)
    13.0%

  3. Who cares? Go to sleep.

    10 vote(s)
    43.5%
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  1. Jaxxon

    Jaxxon Green Space Rabbit

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    *CONTAINS OPENING CRAWL SPOILERS if you care about that sort of thing*


    So let's get into super nit-picky nerd stuff. From what I can tell, the Last Jedi's opening crawl contains a pretty huge grammar mistake. Here's the line:

    "Only General Leia Organa’s band of RESISTANCE fighters stand against the rising tyranny . . . "

    The subject is "band" (a singular noun) and the verb is "stand" (a plural verb). This bugged me so much I missed the second third of the crawl.

    Did this bug anyone else? Am I missing something, and this actually isn't a mistake? Should this be fixed for digital/blu-ray, or would that get dangerously close to Special Edition territory?
     
    #1 Jaxxon, Dec 27, 2017
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  2. Choose Light

    Choose Light Mando Maven and Brown Eyes Backer

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    Good catch!

    I think it's probably an error--the writer thought the object of the prepositional phrase in the middle ("fighters") was the subject. But on the other hand..."band" can be used collectively, or in other words, it can refer either to the organization itself (singular) or to the individual people within it (plural). I personally would use it as a singular noun since the Resistance is fighting together as one. (Or not, if you're following the Poe arc. ;))

    Anyway, don't let it ruin the rest of the crawl for you. (Like when I continually try to put commas around "Luke" in the TFA crawl--"She is desperate to find her brother Luke and gain his help in restoring peace and justice to the galaxy." :oops::p) It will be interesting to see if LFL is interested enough in grammar to take notice! :D
     
    #2 Choose Light, Dec 27, 2017
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  3. B99

    B99 Rebel General

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    Didn't notice it...
     
    #3 B99, Dec 27, 2017
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  4. The Next Skywalker

    The Next Skywalker Rebel General

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    Yes, please fix that!
     
    #4 The Next Skywalker, Dec 27, 2017
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  5. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    Me fail 2 read crawl proper like? That unpossible.
     
    #5 Darth Basin The Greatest, Dec 27, 2017
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  6. Juan1921

    Juan1921 Rebel Commander

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    Nice topic. It could be a mistake. Another reason for this might have to do with the fact that, sometimes, in British English, nouns which already imply a group of something are considered as plural and the verb that follows is conjugated as plural too. For instance, when referring to a football team or a music band, I have seen verbs in the plural form.
     
    #6 Juan1921, Dec 27, 2017
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  7. dudebrohomie

    dudebrohomie Rebel Official

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    I.can't.even.......


    Geesh
     
    #7 dudebrohomie, Dec 27, 2017
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  8. Jaxxon

    Jaxxon Green Space Rabbit

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    Interesting! I'm really only familiar with the American conventions here.


    Also, I feel the need to note that, yes, I understand how silly this topic is. But part of me actually really cares, which I also find funny.
     
    #8 Jaxxon, Dec 27, 2017
  9. srg

    srg Force Attuned

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    To my knowledge both forms ("the band stand/stands") are perfectly correct.
     
    #9 srg, Dec 27, 2017
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  10. dudebrohomie

    dudebrohomie Rebel Official

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    That may be true, or not, but....grammar.

    Seriously, the fact that this is a discussion is amusing to me. Not picking fights or anything AT ALL, but the level to which this movie has been picked apart is amazing. Madea films don't get excoriated to this degree. (Madea = a long running successful film series where a dude dresses like a lady.....A dude....dresses....like a lady, and folks love it.....really. The joke apparently never grows old). ((Quietly hoping someone will take up the "Madea > TLJ" mantle. Just for giggles and all.))

    But yeah....bad grammar (or not)
     
    #10 dudebrohomie, Dec 27, 2017
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  11. CnlSandersdeKFC

    CnlSandersdeKFC Rebel Official

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    And so, the First Order grammar brigade continued it's crusade to bring the joys of good basic to the entire Galaxy!
     
    #11 CnlSandersdeKFC, Dec 27, 2017
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  12. srg

    srg Force Attuned

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    I don't think it's bad grammar. Just a variation.
     
    #12 srg, Dec 27, 2017
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  13. Jaxxon

    Jaxxon Green Space Rabbit

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    I totally agree. Picking apart Star Wars movies to death = bad. Picking apart grammar = a necessary evil, sorry.
     
    #13 Jaxxon, Dec 27, 2017
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  14. Choose Light

    Choose Light Mando Maven and Brown Eyes Backer

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    We all have different things we focus in on as SW fans. Some people focus in on grammar. ;) Some on the symbolic meaning of costume accessories. Some on why bombs fall down in space. Some on cheesy dialogue. Some on character development. When done in the right spirit, none of that is bad. :cool:
     
    #14 Choose Light, Dec 27, 2017
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  15. Jaxxon

    Jaxxon Green Space Rabbit

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    You mean *why bombs fall in artificial gravity and maintain their velocity in the frictionless vacuum of space

    But that's besides the point of this thread.
     
    #15 Jaxxon, Dec 27, 2017
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  16. Choose Light

    Choose Light Mando Maven and Brown Eyes Backer

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    Yeah, that. :p
     
    #16 Choose Light, Dec 27, 2017
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  17. Dr Jerrone

    Dr Jerrone Rebel Commander

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    I get it from the side of changing stand to stands but if that's the case then you should be able to change band to bands in order to have agreement right? I don't think this rule is being applied correctly in this specific case.
     
    #17 Dr Jerrone, Dec 27, 2017
  18. DarthWarEagle

    DarthWarEagle Rebel General

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    Nouns like band can be used as singular or plural. Please see the following, which is in reference to the words 'band' and 'jury' in specifically.

    These are collective nouns and they can be tricky. A collective noun refers to a single unit but that single unit is made up of more than one member. There are many nouns that work this way, so it’s worth figuring out how to handle them. That being said, this won’t be a cut and dry answer. A collective noun can be singular or plural, depending on how you use it in a sentence.

    https://www.writingclasses.com/toolbox/ask-writer/are-words-like-band-and-jury-singular-or-plural

    I can promise you this....they had multiple people proof this that are probably at a much higher pay grade and have a much greater understanding of the English language that any of us on this forum.
     
    #18 DarthWarEagle, Dec 27, 2017
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  19. Crusifix

    Crusifix Rebel Official

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    I didn't want to be spoiled, so I closed my eyes during the crawl.
     
    #19 Crusifix, Dec 27, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2017
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  20. Jaxxon

    Jaxxon Green Space Rabbit

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    Since we're getting into this issue further than it deserves, let's go the whole dang way.

    This grammatical issue isn't as simple as I thought. Like it says in what you have quoted, it appears that some use the singular or plural verb depending on the use of the collective noun. BUT, from what I have read, this is really only done if you mean to emphasize the individuals in the group. For example, you might say "the couple are vacationing separately," as weird as that reads, because you're pointing out the individuals in the collective noun "couple."

    In the opening crawl, however, Leia's band is performing a unified action. It would be a strange, misleading choice to use a verb form emphasizing the individuals in the group, when the point is that they are standing as a unit.
     
    #20 Jaxxon, Dec 27, 2017
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