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POLL: The Sequel Trilogy is complete--what do you think?

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by Jaxxon, Jan 11, 2020.

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What do you think of the Sequel Trilogy as a whole?

  1. Excellent - as good or better than the Originals

    5 vote(s)
    10.6%
  2. Very good - not the best Star Wars, but great

    14 vote(s)
    29.8%
  3. Good - a perfectly fine trilogy

    9 vote(s)
    19.1%
  4. Just okay - not good, not awful, just meh

    10 vote(s)
    21.3%
  5. Bad - I'll watch these movies, but they're not good

    5 vote(s)
    10.6%
  6. Very bad - I won't be rewatching these

    4 vote(s)
    8.5%
  7. Awful - this trilogy ruined Star Wars for me

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Flyboy

    Flyboy Force Attuned

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    Had TROS been a home run I would've voted for excellent but given my opinion and feelings towards it I ended up voting for very good.
     
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  2. Jaxxon

    Jaxxon Force Attuned

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    Hey all, So this has kind of turned into a trilogy ranking thread. I don't really want it to be about "ranking" because honestly I find ranked lists to be kind of . . . Fluffy.

    For example, as somebody who loves Star Wars, "Attack of the Clones" is near the bottom of my ranking list, but I still love that movie. But for somebody else, that movie might be near the bottom of their list because they actually really hate it. Rankings don't tell people how really feel about the movie.

    i'm much more interested to hear what this group of fans feels about the sequel trilogy on its own. Because maybe you absolutely loved it, but it's on the bottom of your list. Maybe you put it on the bottom of the list because you hated it. I want to get to your real feelings about it.

    And I'm actually really fascinated to see the results of this poll, because this is an extremely positive group of fans on this forum. In that sense, your critiques mean much more to me than those of the habitual haters out there.
     
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  3. Maestro-Obiwan

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    1) Prequel Trilogy
    2) Original Trilogy
    3) Sequel Trilogy
     
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  4. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    As films, I think the sequels stand up pretty well. Not perfect, but I do enjoy them.

    I hesitate to necessarily compare them to the originals or prequels yet, though.

    As a '90s baby, I grew up with Star Wars, but to me the movies were secondary. I enjoyed the toys, LEGOs, video games, board games, the hype leading up to TPM being just as fun as the movie itself (which I enjoyed too).

    The prequel and original trilogies have tons of material with them now, from novels and comics to video games and tabletop RPGs. The sequels are starting to get this, but they're so far from what the other eras offer still.

    For instance, one of my favorite battles of the original trilogy is the attack on Rhen Var's harbor, which isn't even technically canon anymore. But I've always thought it was so cool (it's Hoth, but in a city!) that it stands out as one of the highlights of the era to me. And in no small doubt partially because of the fact that I've played it so much in Battlefront.

    Or, for instance, the battle where the Empire massed a fleet above Felucia in an attempt to invade the hidden Rebel base on Yavin IV, but a series of surprise Rebel raids from a sizeable armada from Mon Cala kept downing the ISDs, stranding the Imperial ground troops on the fungal planet's surface. Or, in other words, one of my first sessions of the Star Wars Rebellion board game.


    The Age of Resistance just doesn't have that yet- it feels like it isn't "my" Star Wars, and not in a way that I'm complaining that it can't be, but that that it simply hasn't been allowed to yet. And I look forward to when that day comes.
     
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  5. Mosley909

    Mosley909 Rebel General

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    completely agree with this, that that first 20mins of the force awakens is as good as any star wars movie ever
     
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  6. Jar Jar Thinks

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    Only got to see The Rise of Skywalker now....and needed to register to get a few things off my chest and to see if I'm going mad.

    The fact that I was barely in a rush to see it sort of shows where I've got to with the franchise.

    Some general observations about the Sequel Trilogy:

    - The whole premise of the Sequel Trilogy was wrong because it undid all of the achievements in the Original Trilogy. The series started with all of the work that the heroes did in the Original Trilogy being undone, the characters regressing to what they were before the start (Hans back to being a smuggler, Leia back to being the leader of a Resistance/Rebellion and Luke all alone) and to make things worse, all three main characters being responsible for the creation of yet another monster in Ren. The reason Abrams did this was because he wanted to remake A New Hope so he needed the big bad empire v the resistance/rebels.

    - Despite this depressingly, awful premise, Abrams did do a reasonable job of remaking A New Hope and created some interesting characters and threads. The biggest threads he left dangling were Snoke, the Knights of the Ren and, most importantly of all, that the force had somehow awoken in Rey, This last point has been completely overlooked and is the source of so much frustration. How was Rey able to do the things she did? The obvious answer was because she had somehow already been trained or had powers given to her and they awoke in The Force Awakens.

    - Putting aside the justifiable criticism of The Last Jedi, the biggest criticism I would make is that Johnson failed to develop any of these key threads. Snope was killed (albeit in the best scene in the movie), the Knights of the Ren didn't even feature and there was zero explanation for Rey's powers. And, as others pointed out, this generally points to a lack of planning of the trilogy.

    - Despite these massive flaws in The Last Jedi, Johnson did do something awesome, he broke from the past. Johnson handed the next director a completely clean slate with which to re-start the franchise without it being tied to the Skywalkers (or as it transpires, the Palpatines). The one issue is that the Sequel Trilogy was supposed to be the final part of the Skywalker story but, hey, that story had already been told in 6 movies.

    - And then again Abrams in The Rise of Skywalker, fails to take advantage of this thread, and worse (and even more inexplicably since it was his own work) fails to pick up the threads in The Force Awakens! Sure Snope was dead (although resurrecting Snope would be less offensive to the achievements in the Original Trilogy than resurrecting the Emperor) but he still had the Knights of the Ren to play with, a fully dark Ren and, most importantly of all, an explanation for what force had awoken in Rey. Plus he had a clean slate to leave the Skywalkers behind and really expand the universe.

    Based on the above it is difficult to work out which is worse: The Last Jedi or The Rise of Skywalker. Bringing back the Emperor, in the manner it was done (in the opening credits for god sake) was just the final insult to the Original Trilogy.

    At least if there had been some ceremony which showed the Emperor rising from the grave that would've given some kind of gravitas to the moment where Darth Vader's sacrifice had all been in vain. Or, in keeping with the whole theme of the Force awaking, why couldn't Rey have been somehow "infected" with the Emperor's powers which is why she was abandoned? This would set up an internal struggle within Rey as she fights Ren and his Knights. How much more awesome would that have been?

    I also could not believe my eyes when The Rise of Skywalker started to roll back everything that had been done in The Last Jedi. Like I said, despite it's many flaws, it at least wiped the slate clean. By rolling back on everything Abraham actually recreated the problem that Johnson had solved. Meanwhile the movie had to move at a ridiculous pace to tell the story that Abrams wanted to now tell in this third film (which was even a different story to the one he told in his first film!).

    For me this makes the Sequel Trilogy movies the worst of all of the Star Wars movies (including prequels and spin offs) because the trilogy is fundamentally at odds with the rest of the franchise, it undermines the achievements and development of the characters in the Original Trilogy, and even then, lacks its own internal consistency.

    What could've been......
     
    #26 Jar Jar Thinks, Jan 21, 2020 at 4:48 AM
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 21, 2020 at 11:08 AM
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  7. cheewie

    cheewie Clone

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    I voted good by I have seriously doubted wether voting just okay...

    In general terms, I think the main mistake of ST has been a total lack of plans and overall arch, there have been fanservice of all kinds, bad and good, and also fanservice in other ways than usual. I mean, TFA was a copypaste of ANH and essentially OT because all the hate that the prequels received. JJ wanted to recover the 77 spirit. All this in service of the fans. And then, TFA was critisized for that lack of originality and RJ made TLJ. He tried to be risky and to make an unpredictable and a notalikestarwars movie. All this in service of the fans. That risk derived in a lot of mistakes but also very good ideas...The hate that it received made that the hate received with PT and TFA seemed ridiculous...Then JJ returned to his original idea making TROS, making another conservative movie, that undoes some aspects of TLJ, aspects that a lot of fans disliked. All this in service of the fans. And all the same, the movie is being hated... I mean, ST has obviously not followed any overall arch or script, but I wonder if it really hasn´t been any plan from the beginning, or if LF and KK decided to change that hypothetical plan in order to obey fans demands...The result, anyway, has been a very inconsistent script between the three movies.

    All that said, the weak point of this trilogy has been the scripts, but I consider that it legacy is to deliver some good charachters, as Kylo, Rey, Poe, BB8, a sweet reencounter with the old ones (Han, Leia C3PO and cheewie), and a sour one (I´ll go though this later)I haven´t liked Finn at all (although it hasn´t been annoying in TROS) nor any of the new characters itroduced afer TFA (Rose, DJ, Holdo, Jannah, DO) The acting is much better than in PT, the CGI is outstanding and John Williams is as incredible as he has always been. I am ok with new force powers, let´s see new things as they are new movies. But as I said, the lack of planification has derived that for instance TLJ wastes a lot of time in irrelevant and boring plotlines (Canto Bight) and TROS has been felt like two-movies-in-one, too rushed and with no explanation of a lot of things. Part of TROS plot could have been in TLJ, explaining the sith dagger, the pathfinder, exegol, Palpatine´s plan and his resurrection, Snoke...As an example... imagine having a full and developed explanation of Snoke being a clon in TLJ BEFORE killing him...All that kind of things makes me wonder how wonderful could this trilogy have been with more foreshadowing and without renouncing to its main ideas... All the same, it have been fun considering that it is the firsts Star Wars movie that I watch on the cinema as an adult. I watched PT when I was a child, I remember them with nostalgia and TPM was the movie that discovered me Star Wars. Nowadays as an adult I recognise that they were not very good movies, and I am very sure that the children of today will remember eps VII VIII and IX as ``their´´ Star Wars in 10/20 years, and call me a sentimental, but this is the wonderful thing of this saga. I left the cinema disappointed after my first watching of TROS(somehow it improved after second watch) but leaving the cinema I saw an eight year old or so trying to imitate the sound of a lightsaber and a TIE fighter and I could see myself back in 1999 when I dreamt to drive a podracer.

    Highlights and mistakes of ST

    General:
    +New main characters
    +Reecounter with old ones
    +New OST
    +CGI and cinematography
    -Script and coherence, plotholes and lack of background(at least background is explained in new canon novels, comics and BF2, but it should be in the movies)
    -New secondary characters(Rose, DJ, Holdo, jannah, DO)

    TFA:
    +A total reencounter with the feeling of watching star wars
    +Han and cheewie
    +Rey, BB8,Poe
    +Takodana battle
    +The end in Ahch-To

    -Copypaste of ANH
    -Finn
    -Starkiller base as a concept

    TLJ:
    +The whole arch of Luke, Rey and Kylo
    +Luke fall and redemption (The biggest and most original legacy of ST)
    +Deception about the jedi order
    +Ahch- To
    +Hyperspace
    +Yoda´s intervention and words
    +Snoke´s throne room
    +The battle of Crait(the most spectacular in the series)
    +Luke´s final battle and his exhibition with the Force

    -Canto Bight
    -Rose and Finn
    -DJ
    - Stupid humor and jokes in the very worst moments( but a few, only very few work)
    -Leia flying through space
    - Two ships chasing each other the whole film, boring
    - Ideological issues
    -Very slow pacing for an excesively long movie

    TROS
    +Leia´s treatment
    +Dynamics between Rey Poe and Finn
    +The sense of adventure
    +Death Star duel
    +New planets
    +Luke and Leia´s training flashback
    +The epilogue
    +Breathless pace...

    -...but it is also too rushed
    -Lack of explanation and plot holes in Palpatine´s coming back, his plan and being Rey´s Grandfather
    -Reylo´s kiss(Reylo as a concept is okay, the kiss in that very moment is completely out of place, I remember Jyn and Cassian last glance at each other before dying in RO...that would been beautiful in TROS)
    -DO and Jannah
    -Some of the fanservice does not work and almost breaks the fourth wall in the very worst way( Luke talking about respecting a lightsaber is almost a punch in the face to RJ, even though if you are not agree with that scene in TLJ as I am)
    -The third act in general, battle of Exegol felt unepic for me.


    A final consideration, I find a link between the mirror scene in TLJ and the epilogue in TROS, and it feels as one of the few things that is very coherent between the two movies, although it may be on ly due to coincidence or luck LOL.. In TLJ Rey asks in the cave who are her parents, and the only answer that she receives is her own reflect...In TROS she is questioned which is her surname, and she asks Rey Skywalker. No matter where or from who do you come from, the only thing it matters is who you are or want to be.
     
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  8. Kaniisra

    Kaniisra Rebel Trooper

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    It all happened... for what?
     
  9. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Rebel Official

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    @Jar Jar Thinks Welcome to the Cantina (and I apologize if I already welcomed you lol)!
    You make some pretty interesting points, a good amount of which I agree with.
    I always say that TFA being a "remake" of ANH (like how, in a way TPM is) was a brilliant choice for the franchise and for the characters, but was terrible for the story. TFA treading old ground meant that new fans had an exciting premise to look forward to while old fans could ignore the plot beats and focus on the fresh, new characters. Rey was an inverse of Luke; Poe was the cool guy we all wanted to be or know; and Finn was a true blank slate, able to go anywhere and everywhere. There was so much hope, so much optimism...
    But at the same time, you're right, it DOES undo a lot of what the OT stood for and what its characters fought for.

    RJ did a lot right and a lot wrong in TLJ, but I also agree with the fact that breaking those mythic chains for the saga was the best and necessary thing for Star Wars, but still honor what came before (the whole "kill the past" stuff is inherently proven wrong within his own movie, BY DESIGN. Luke does exactly what he scoffed at doing earlier; the Jedi will come back and be greater than ever because they've finally learned where they went wrong; and the Resistance will turn into a rebellion).

    TROS is even weirder. But I felt like I criticize that one enough.

    To the point of the poll, I didn't vote. I don't have a general consensus. There are a lot of great things and a lot of bad things in this ST, and we're too close to it right now to judge it fairly I feel. Maybe when the next Star Wars movie comes out (aka when fans don't feel like it's the end of Star Wars in cinema), THEN we'll be at a place to judge it, and if not favorably, at least fairly.
     
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  10. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    I agree with a lot of this.

    TLJ gave Star Wars (whether people like it or not) a chance at some new life and to grow beyond what it's masters, I mean original trilogy, were.
    There's only so many ways to make "Star Wars" in the GFFA with the same basic mythology and the same core concepts and have it not feel boring and repetitive. You will have to accept the bumps and bruises along the way to get something great from it, but it's necessary to keep it alive.

    Marvel has an expiration date if they don't start altering their "formula" IMO. Star Wars will too now that it is more than 3 movies every 20 years lol
     
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