Rian’s Snoke Theory Sucks

The mods really need to get a grasp of this forum though. It's bogged down with endless negative threads.

 

make positive ones then.

the posters who didn't like this or that are free to vent.
as long as people are respectful and focus on Star Wars content and not each other, people can discuss whatever they want.

everyone's emotions are still running high right now.
give the dust some time to settle. : D

 

We are in agreement on TFA. I was pretty disappointed with the rehashing, and lack of backstory. I suppose that is why I was excited about TLJ - finally, we were going to get some answers to all of the questions JJ left. Where we diverge is you being ok with not getting the answer to questions you desperately wanted answered. That is what I found so unsatisfying. Here we have waited two years, and we still have major unanswered questions, and those questions that were answered were answered disappointingly - at least to me.

To me, there is no reason for any speculation going forward. These are apparently standalone films, and JJ isn't beholden to Rian or anyone else. He can do what he wants.

 

Uhm... Rian actually turned Snoke into a direct re-hash of Palpatine, they both got surprise-killed by their apprentice (both times a Skywalker). Taken at face-value, the arrogance and faith in control over their pupil which ultimately gets Snoke killed is an exact copy and paste of the Emperor's downfall in RoTJ. A lot of people were hoping there was just... more to it. They wanted to see some effort put in, but we even know from RJ himself that he did not put any effort in. There is no back-story, he is a completely 2-dimensional character - and this is RJ's fault and it is why he is a bad story-teller.

 

The only thing that was left unanswered was Snoke's backstory -but again, the reason for this was shown to be because it wasn't important for us to know it (in this film). I loved the film because it was so different and fresh whilst remaining true (and not contradicting) that which has come before it. It made sense of the Jedi philosophy and other important themes that relate to not only TFA, but every SW film that has come before it.

I'm also confused to firstly what you think is unanswered (beyond Snoke) and why you would want to know everything leading into the final film anyway...?

 

Rian was writing episode 8 during the filming of episode 7. The stupid Snoke theories wasn't around when he was writing the script, he didn't know about them. His original intent was to kill off Snoke to push Kylo's story forwarded and not be dragged down with your typical master and apprentice angle. Also, he never had any intent on any backstory for Snoke because it wouldn't serve any purpose and it wouldn't matter to the characters who interact with him (Hux, Kylo, Rey). If anything, blame JJ for not setting up his back story and leaving everything opened ended.

 

Isn't all that evil?

Really he's not evil;
-Lets see. Destroyed Luke's temple turned or killed a dozen students.
-Betrayed family, a traitor to the New Republic and joined a ridiculous even more fascist version of the Empire.
-Ordered the kulling of an entire village in a hissy because Lor San Tekka mouthed off to him.
-Murdered his father in the hopes that it would prove to be the "will to power" he needed to get really Dark Sidey.

Sure he choked killing mom, and felt kinda bad about dad. So he isn't evil?

He's complex and real but please stop with the "not that evil" thousands dead in war crimes, patricide, treason and then treason again to try and make himself Supreme Leader.

Now you might not find him dreaded the same way we might dread Vader. But that is the point. They were never going to surpass Vader. So they created a Villian whose inability to actually surpass Vader is a defining characteristic. Sure he is a broken man. With immense power behind his unstable mind and an army willing to destroy the galaxy to rule the ashes.

I have been comparing Kylo to Emperor Comidus from Gladiator since TFA and predicting that he would kill Snoke. Watch the "am I not merciful" clip from Gladiator for why I think Kylo is awesome.

 

hahahaha ~ i am glad to see you finally got your priorities in order! ; D

i cheered like crazy when Snoke went down (and wish Hux would've kicked him in his face after the fact).
i didn't get much of what i really wanted out of this film, but i did get Snoke being garbage and dispatched as such and that pleases me to no end.
the fishy-eyed toilet monster is dead! : D

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 19, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 19, 2017 ---

to quote (or paraphrase) Luke: "that's amazing. (almost) everything you just said is wrong."

 

Leaving the one of the main baddies without any backstory was one of the unanswered questions. The others were who are the Knights of Ren and where are they? How did Maz get Luke's lightsaber - "A good question for another film" apparently. But with regard to Snoke, I feel his backstory was important for Star Wars fans to know, and not explaining how the most powerful dark side user in a Star Wars film came into existence after ROJ is to me a huge disservice to the fans and one of the reasons the film is disliked by half of those who saw it.

And we will agree to disagree on this film remaining true to the Star Wars saga. That for me was the main problem with it. TFA was apparently wholly unnecessary.

 

I would love to know how. These things don't happen in a vacuum but neither does any crime or evil act. You don't see Ben as a traitor? He had a "good" reason to kill the village on Jakku? Clearly he did murder his father. Why do you think he did it?

 

Yes, I meant he is not dreaded the way others are dreaded, and you feel sorry for him. It was hard for me to root against him at the end of TLJ. I never had a hard time rooting against Darth Vader, the Emperor, etc. And that is fine as long as there is someone there to fill that void, but in this case, there is no sense of dread moving forward. Perhaps Rey, who apparently learned her lightsaber skills from the Force, will use those skills again to defeat him in IX. Yawn.

 

i'm happy to take it to a different on-topic thread of your choosing.
i don't really want to derail the Snoke theory thing people have going here. hahaha

 

I work with teens many of whom have criminal records. Trust me you feel sorry for them but I also hurt for their victims.

 

kylo seems such a poor vilian, he's failed way too much already. i don't get the same sense of drama as when there is some overarching threat. what are the stakes supposed to be exactly? survival to create a new generation of jedi, seems kinda boring. vs ruler of the galaxy kylo, scary stuff indeed. snoke alludes to some big picture things to do with how the force works, puts him on a similar level to luke, at least. as the fellow above pointed out he created ben and seemed aware of things beyond anyone in the ST. at the least he has to be relevant to what is opened up in ep9, if it is genuinely going to tie this together properly. i would wager alive, in some form.

 

I just shake my heads at threads like these. Such a dim, limited view of storytelling. And sad, yes sad, most of all. You have seen the Snoke story in a thousand other movies and mediums. You've seen the ancient, robe-wearing bad guy who talks in that annoyingly medieval manner.

You've seen Snoke in the Prequel Movies. He was called Palapatine.
You've seen Snoke in the LotR movies: he was called Saruman
You've seen Snoke in Harry Potter: he was called Voldemort. Grindlewald
You've seen Snoke in Guardians of the Galaxy: he was called Ronin
In Thor: he was called Loki.
In the Original Trilogy: he was called the Emperor.
In Mortal Kombat: he was called Shao Kahn or the Shang Tsung or the Dragon King

HOW MANY TIMES do you need to see the same. damn. thing? Literally the same character in different costumes: "I am all powerful. Look, I have a throne and guards. My guards btw are the best guards in the world. Look, I have a long flowing robe to show you how evil I am or something. Bad guys wear dresses. Of course, I preoccupy my seemingly endlessly dispensable number of hours perusing this thesaurus... you will die. I am cruel and dark and evil and my fingernails are supremely long..."

And then at the end of the movie/video game/novel the Big Hero will beat the Dark Lord. YOU KNOW THIS. Why did we need to see that AGAIN? Will you never tire of seeing ugly old men dress up in their best gowns and talk to the screen like its 1692? SW is better than this outdated, overplayed garbage. So we got that trash out of the way a full movie earlier. Thank lord.

Now we get to focus and speculate on much more interesting things. Like, is it going to be Emperor Kylo? How cool is it that Han and Leia helped kill the Emperor and then their son went ahead and become another Emperor. Kylo did something his grandfather never did: he became Emperor of the entire galaxy. How will that affect his character now that he's surpassed Darth Vader. Will he rule cruelly or will he try to bring balance and reform to the galaxy? There's not just questions though. There's the plain old cool factor of it all coming down to this: two individuals will decide the fate of the galaxy who weren't even born when the fighting first started. That is the nature of war. Star Wars, if you will

And if you wanna cry about Big Daddy Snoke being nothing more than a plot device for far more interesting things... I don't know, I just feel bad for your tunnel vision. Pitiful

 

Snoke is a great irony for me...

On one hand, I felt he was little more than a token Palpatine in TFA. As such, I wasn't bothered by him being killed, especially with the crescendo of Rey/Kylo being ever-co-close to teaming up (albeit with different visions in mind).

On the other hand, RJ does such a better job making Snoke a memorable villain, it does kind of land weird that he's killed.

Something to consider: Snoke making to the end of Ep IX would be a Palpatine mirror, full stop. I thought it was a bold and interesting idea to move that inevitability to the middle of the trilogy, which makes Ep IX wide open.

But, I will wait for Ep IX play out before I worry too much about Snoke. During TLJ, I never found myself getting caught up in him getting killed, probably because I know JJ can fill in gaps later as required.