Rian Johnsosn: Rey's parents question is still open

fair point

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 8, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 8, 2018 ---

BINGO! I noticed this in my 3rd viewing last night. she says it first!

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 8, 2018 ---

and this is why I was in the "oh she is a Kenobi" camp but after another viewing i was ok with this choice, and i feel is the stronger choice. otherwise her journey is handed to her on a silver platter. this saga goes on and on about destiny. but now she is the master of her fate

 

I think this is right and they should just run with the story as is now. The Mary Sue aspect of her character does need fixing. There are ways of doing it. Her backstory is still a blank slate that could be filled. One way (using a comment I have already made, and am shamelessly copy and pasting here with a little editing) is:

They could take would be to imply that in some ways she has been in training in one sense before. What if back in the day as a small child she saw holos of the Jedi and would try and mimic them. In doing so she actually succeeded in pulling off the tricks. Little things like mind tricks. Her junkie parents use this to help them exploit people. It doesn't always work, however, as she is young. They get angry at her and can't rely on it to always work.

Hell, one mind trick might have helped the parents might steal Lukes lightsaber from a dealer of merch from Bespin and she might play with it a bit. They are neglectful and it happens. They don't realise its real value and Maz or anyone else buys it from them.

Then one day, they see her lifting something really heavy with the force, they could tell her to behave and get angry as it gets in the way/ breaks things etc. Being awful, they come to see this as an opportunity to make some real credits. They take her to Jakku and sell her, promising that these skills could be useful to the junkers there. They pay handsomely, thinking this could be an easy way to break down the star destroyer.

When they abandon her tiny Rey, they tell her to sit still and behave and they will be right back. When she realises what has happened she blames it on her powers and represses them deep down, thinking this is what they mean by behaving, hoping it brings them back. The Junkers resent her and feel cheated by snake oil salesmen.

She grows up and the force becomes a memory of a memory. When she leaves Jakku that repression breaks down and her powers break forth.

 

Okay, let's go through this one by one.

Rey flies the Falcon: She has spent her life looking at ship schematics, actually flown some ships, used a simulator - and she has natural instincts, like Anakin in TPM.

Rey uses a mind trick: Rey believes in the Force. She connects with Kylo Ren who looks into her mind but opens a channel into his, that Rey exploits. From doing this Rey sees something that is possible through the Force - that one can take thoughts from people's minds and, in a desperate bid to escape (may as well try something), she sees if she can put a thought into another persons head.

Rey goes toe to toe with Kylo Ren: Kylo Ren has just been shot by Chewie's powerful bowcaster (it's power being made a point of twice in the film) and slashed on the arm by Finn. He is also severely conflicted after murdering his father - and weakened by the act. Rey, as we have established, believes in the Force and is realising what powers are available to her - the basic level Jedi powers. So she tries to force grab the saber (the stories of old Jedi that she heard likely mentioned such powers). And it works. Why? Because of her raw power that is a reaction to Kylo Ren's. It gives her the strength to overpower him whilst he is in a weakened state. She then uses her combat abilities, partially learned from when on Jakku (again a point was made of that when she fights of three assailants) and a new element which discovering the Force has afforded her. Keep in mind, she is more open minded than Luke was (who barely knew what was possible mid-way through the 2nd chapter). And after remembering the lesson Maz Kanata taught her, listens to the Force and gains energy from it vs a depleted Ren - and she beats him.

Rey fights the Praetorian Guards: Not all that different from facing Ren. And she has had a little more time to develop her understanding. But really, she doesn't do anything that different here than what she did in TFA. She is attuned to the Force and non-FS guards are not individually a match for her or Ren. Though it's not exactly a quick and easy fight!

Rey matches Ren with Force grab of lightsaber: Again, they're equals in terms of raw abilities. And Kylo is not of sound mind. He's still all over the place. Rey knows what she has to do and she knows who she is. This isn't a display of advanced Force knowledge but the raw power we keep hearing of. They both try a simple Force grab but their advanced connection to the Force makes a display of their huge power.

Rey lifts some rocks: She is doing what Yoda EXPECTED Luke to be able to do after a few days traing, doing somersaults and what-not. And she has the advantage of actually believing in the Force as much as one can and knowing what is possible. Luke failed at this. And so, again, using the standard Jedi power of telekinesis isn't a big jump. If she believes and has a strong natural connection to the Force then at this point she can do whatever she sets her mind too.

Now, if Rey started Force projecting herself, or flashing lightning from her finger tips ala Luke/Snoke, then yes - that'd be hard to explain. But as far as I can see, everything else is perfectly explained.

 

Would it be hard to explain, or would you say Kylo's questioning how she is doing this when it would kill her means she could do it? I understand that we can explain all these things, but only by diminishing what came before. There is a cost to giving these powers to the rest of the story, and the payoff isn't worth it.

To follow up on a few of your other points, Anakin was an amazing pilot, but at least he had a history of pod racing. I know it isn't much but it is better than reading schematics. Rey is just brilliant at it. Also, Anakin made the jump but he was the chosen one. It seems Jedi with that power are ten a penny in this universe. Or is this an unusual age of super strong Jedi? I suspect the bigger and better is just to make an entertaining story at the cost of previous stories. Furthermore, if these skills are easily obtained, why risk not training Anakin when he could end up with these powers through circumstance anyway?

Yes, Kylo was injured, but the portrayal suggested it wasn't so bad that he should be defeated. I wouldn't fancy Luke in ANH in that fight. Either way I could take that victory if everything didn't seem to appear so easy for her. We haven't seen Rey fail yet. It is boring that she just wins and does the right thing over and over. I care about her arc only in how it informs and affects the Kylo arc.

I don't feel like all these Jedi skills should be so easily obtained. Jedi training seems boring if it is just lessons on how to apply powers, most of which you learn in week one, to different situations.

Finally, as a point of fact, was Luke meant to have learnt telekinesis in days? Heir to the Jedi has him saying:

"Obi-Wan had never addressed telekinesis with me. It was likely that I wasn't strong enough to begin training in such an advanced field of study. That didn't mean I shouldn't try"

I am new here so not sure what precedence things have in canon!

 

She wasn't doing it nor could she. Only Snoke and Luke had that knowledge. Kylo just says that because he doesn't know what is going on. He isn't to know what she does or doesn't know.

A point I left out is to do with the idea of "The Force awakening". The Force, as described by pablo, has been dormant and has now awoken. That strikes me as sounding quite violent - like an eruption. And so the awakening of the Force could be providing our characters with greater strength than we have seen before (See Broom Boy). Though it is also made clear in the movies that you don't have to train Jedi to use the Force. But that the Jedi have a lot of knowledge about the Force and that their training makes you "better" than everyone else. If Anakin remained on Tatooine, it's doubtful he would've learned anything that special though not impossible by any means.

I thought it did - physically and mentally.
She did fail. She got Force frozen and captured. She felt the dark side near the end of TFA. She went to it in TLJ. Things didn't go the way she thought with Ren. No, there hasn't been an epic failure yet - but was there for Luke? He made a mistake and paid for it, but other than that he did pretty well - especially in ANH: Falcon gunner win, Save Princess win, Escape Death Star win, destroy Death Star win...

Don't get carried away. She has done a mind trick and force grab & lift. Projecting herself across the galaxy, she is not!

I go by the movies and it strikes me that Luke taught himself telekinesis but that his failure to "believe" held him back.

 

There's still people who believe Rey could be a Skywalker after TLJ ? You don't see it makes no sense from a storytelling point of view ? The message of TLJ is that you don't need Skywalker blood to be Force sensitive, Abrams never imagined Rey to be related to the Skywalker family, she has always been a "no one" ("I'm no one" Rey in the trailer of TFA), Kylo has always been the only legacy character of the Skywalker family.

Oh and 2 movies where Leia doesn't recognize her daughter with the Force ? Or you think they will reveal that Luke was romantically involved with a woman and Force ghost Luke will say "no I am your father" to Rey ?

I'm sure in 2 years when Episode 9 will be out we will have a message like "don't worry, Rey will be revealed to be a Skywalker in Episode 10 in 202X, I'm still a supporter of Rey Skywalker"

"I still believe Finn & Rey will end up together in Episode IX and if she is a Skywalker or a Solo, Finn can marry Rey, adopt one of the two surnames (Finn & Rey Skywalker or Finn & Rey Solo) and have children together."

If Finn has children it will be with this woman:

 

Is this alleged message that I keep hearing aimed at people with some kind of handicap?
I thought the fact that you don't need Skywalker blood to be force sensitive was pretty obvious in a galaxy where there have been thousands of force sensitives before the Skywalkers ever existed...

 

Looks like it's something new for some people, I've seen message like "This is ridiculous, now thanks to TLJ everyone can be Force sensitive (Rey a no one, the broom boy at the end) you can be the child of 2 scavengers and be powerful with the Force"

For some people the only good explanation for Rey's power is that she's the daughter of Luke/Leia or daughter of a powerful Force user.

they forgot that Anakin the chosen one was the child of a non force senstitive slave from Tatooine.

 

Obviously you don't remember Mace Skywalker, Obi Wan Skywalker, Yoda Skywalker, and of course Qui Gon Skywalker

 

I think it's a misunderstanding, nobody has an issue with Rey being force sensitive, they have an issue with Rey mastering the force exponentially faster than any jedi before her, even faster than Anakin and his offspring, that's why she being an ordinary jedi wihtout some kind of special origin makes no sense within the context of the saga.

 

Where exactly in TFA does it say - or even imply - any of this? (Before you start to mention EU sources, be aware that if you have to use outside sources to explain a plot hole in the movie then that kinda proves it is a plot hole)

So does Lor San Tekka. So does Maz Kanata. So does Chirrut Imwe. So does General Dodonna. Don't see any of them Jedi mind tricking anyone. Clearly it takes more than a fervent belief.

 

I Didn’t Really Think The Reveal Was Legit When I Saw The Movie, If She Isn’t A Skywalker Though, My Insides Will Get Mad, It Probably Won’t Ruin Episode 9 For Me, But I Still Won’t Like It If She Is Not A Skywalker, Disney Specifically Said That The Main Saga Is The Story Of The Skywalkers

 

"We are going make sure the answer to Rey's parents is deeply and profoundly satisfying" - 2016.

I highly doubt TLJ gives us the whole story.

Two drunk bums, dead, in a shallow grave is hardly deeply and profoundly satisfying now is it.

While CT said it... I'm sure LFL have a general outline for where the story ends, even if each director has a large amount of freedom.

This isn't over. Take that to the bank.

 

I guess we have to try to identify with Kylo, perhaps he is not so bad, I think he gets a bad rap, he is trying to accomplish something that has never been done in the history of the galaxy. Also have you seen his lightsaber? I hear he has an eight pack as well, he is shredded.

 

I remember reading this quote from the man who was supposed to direct Ep. 9. He also said something about it being emotional as well. Sorry, but two losers who sold their little girl for drinking money isn't deeply and profoundly satisfying. No way in hell!! I won't get my hopes up about there being more to Rey's parents because I don't want to be let down, but if they think what they told the audience in TLJ about Rey's parents is in any way satisfying or emotionally stirring then they are idiots and there's no hope for the next movie.

 

Rey Skywalker & Snoke (revealed to be Darth Plagueis, source of her lineage) is still out there

would certainly up the stakes in the last chapter. Kylo Ben is such a terrible villian, as it stands.