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Seeds of Rebellion

Discussion in 'Solo' started by Rayjefury, May 28, 2018.

  1. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    So... how much credit do we give to:

    L3
    Han
    Enfys

    For starting/sparking the rebellion? Do you all think Han's early unintentional involvement was meant to be ironic? He wants no part of them initially and yet the Coaxium that he provides in Solo is part of what makes the Rebellion possible. Is it a fair assumption to believe that some of the Coaxium from Solo makes it way to the Mon Calamari cruisers that begin the Rebellion in R1 by attacking Scariff?
     
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  2. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    I think it's waaay to early in timeline to speak about larger Rebellion. This was a beginning of a cell, formed of the people who were harmed by the Empire and fought in a limited way. Something like what Rebels did on Lothal before connecting to others. There are other, much earlier examples - in Ahsoka book, for one, which is set only a year after ROTS.

    So Enfys' group is just one of many, many smaller rebel cells. And judging by her means (and certain members), they are more similar to Saw Gerrera's partisans.

    L3 has no role in THE Rebelion. She started a minor droid uprising in a mine. Hardly a role.

    Han isn't ready to be part of Rebellion. He still sees himself as a bad guy. He calls Enfys 'kid' like Beckett called him, minutes after he killed him. He gives them Coaxium because they are orphans and lost souls without anything like he was. And he still takes the cut. He only becomes part of the Rebellion when he comes back to help Luke.

    As, I said - it's way to early for that Coaxium to get to Scariff. This is several years before Rebels (which cover 5 years). That fuel is spent by then, who knows where.
     
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  3. Jack_Forest

    Jack_Forest Force Sensitive

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    As for the Mon Calamari, the current canon is that those ships were initially a merchant fleet that rebelled. How exactly that went will be adressed in the next "Star Wars" comics issue, but it seemed like that had enough fuel to begin with.
    Edit: pardon me, it was the Mon Calamari Merchant fleet.
     
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  4. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

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    Actually, A New Hope always actually came off as Han knowing exactly what was going on, how it got there, and that he just openly chose not to be involved because he had some sort of experience or understanding about how it doesn't work out well for people.

    Here's the relevant section lots of folks take to mean Han's just out for himself, doesn't care, and that he wasn't already familiar with the Rebellion.

    LUKE
    So... you got your reward and you're
    just leaving then?

    HAN
    That's right, yeah! I got some old
    debts I've got to pay off with this
    stuff. Even if I didn't, you don't
    think I'd be fool enough to stick
    around here, do you? Why don't you
    come with us? You're pretty good in
    a fight. I could use you.

    LUKE
    (getting angry)
    Come on! Why don't you take a look
    around? You know what's about to
    happen, what they're up against.
    They could use a good pilot like
    you. You're turning your back on
    them.

    HAN
    What good's a reward if you ain't
    around to use it? Besides, attacking
    that battle station ain't my idea of
    courage. It's more like suicide.

    LUKE
    All right. Well, take care of
    yourself, Han. I guess that's what
    you're best at, isn't it?

    Luke goes off and Han hesitates, then calls to him.

    HAN
    Hey, Luke... may the Force be with
    you!

    Luke turns and sees Han wink at him. Luke lifts his hand in
    a small wave and then goes off.

    Han turns to Chewie who growls at his captain,

    HAN
    What're you lookin' at? I know what
    I'm doing.​

    I always read this as someone who had personal background experience and was speaking from that experience to the naive Luke about how what was going to take place was not going to go well; again because he had witnessed it in his past in some manner.
    Even Luke seemed to know that Han was well versed in things in this part.

    Han just flat out says that he doesn't value going down that road because he sees it as suicide; not heroism.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  5. Finn is a Jedi

    Finn is a Jedi Rebel Official

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    None. The Delegation of 2000 is still canon and was the first seeds of the rebellion. Bail and Mon Mothma were working from day one of the Empire to rebel. Ahsoka's novel takes place only a little into the Empire's reign and Bail is already coordinating small movements and it ends with Ahsoka becoming Fulcrum. Also Saw Gerrera and his Partisans were active from the very beginning.
     
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  6. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    Slightly off topic but why is
    Maul's
    Crimson Dawn working with the Empire as told by Nest?

    Everthing shown shows that
    Maul
    (in canon) hates Palpatine and is doing everything 2 kill him?
     
  7. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

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    Because Disney is telling a story how they want to, and you may be right, but I wouldn't assume anything. It was one shot with no context.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  8. Boushhdisguise

    Boushhdisguise Jedi General

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    Seeds of Rebellion are since the end of the Republic. Mon Mothma and Bail Organa quietly paying service while secretly doing things behind the scenes, Saw and his bunch. It was probably much quieter though in the early years of the Empire. As for Han,
    that whole deal he did get paid, and it gave him the means to get what he needed. I felt it was very in character to have helped after he heard her story, and he did benefit from that personally while also doing what he thought was right because he is more about individuals than causes. He could relate to this person he just met when he heard her story. I liked that foreshadowing though about he having what it took to be a good leader.
    --- Double Post Merged, May 29, 2018, Original Post Date: May 29, 2018 ---
    I wanted an explaination about that as well. I'm sure there is some self serving reason though.
     
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  9. Lance Toris

    Lance Toris Rebelscum

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    I'm glad this was brought up, because it sparked a friendly argument with my friend 10 minutes after leaving Solo.

    According to him:
    Han started the Rebellion. His take from Enfys Nest's quote was speaking about the ENTIRE Rebellion.

    My take:
    Nest's quote is speaking specifically to the Cloud Riders' efforts, NOT the entire galaxy. It's been established and shown over and over (esp via Rebels) that the Rebellion is a collection of cells across the galaxy, and that Mon Mothma, Bail Organa etc. are the founders. They collect cells and support as time goes on.

    What's your take?
     
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  10. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    I think Obi sed it best....."From a Certain....."
     
  11. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    Yeah, I'm sure that Enfys nest was speaking about "a" rebellion, not "the" Rebellion. More of a thematic tie than a significant lore one.

    Not that Enfys might not be important in the Alliance going forward, but for now it's a smaller thing.

    Maybe this is a good way to categorize the Rebellion's we've seen:


    "Cell Level"
    Localized "grassroots" rebellions- could be as small as a city-wide affair, or as large as a planetary or even system-wide revolution. Also, may be just a roving, smaller Rebel group.
    Examples: The Spectres, Saw's Partisans, Shu-Torin revolution, Cloud Rider Gang

    "Fulcrum Level"
    A group of multiple cells, coming together to form a larger group
    Examples: Phoenix Squadron, The Resistance (since they're an unofficial organization)

    "Alliance Level"
    A larger, official combatant officially in revolution.
    Examples: The Alliance to Restore the Republic, (maybe the new rebellion in IX)


    Maybe your friend could think of it like this:

    Let's say you see a guy by the side of the road, trying to get some money by passersby.

    You give him a $5.00 bill.

    That guy goes on to eventually clean up, get a job, and work as a very successful civil rights lawyer.

    Did you single-handedly reshape the course of your country's civil rights history? Or did you merely contribute in a small (but still meaningful) way to one experience?


    Every little bit helps, and I don't mean to diminish Han's actions here- but he isn't one of the founding members of the Rebel Alliance. If anything, this is just meant to foreshadow some of Han's selflessness- ironically, before he becomes the true cynic we know him as, anyway.
     
    #11 cawatrooper, May 29, 2018
    Last edited: May 29, 2018
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  12. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    Tell your friend Star Wars nerds say that he's wrong. :D
     
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  13. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    i think Enfys is talking about the whole galaxy, not just her marauders: the coaxium can power a whole fleet.

    also, sign me up for an Enfys Next standalone. holy cow what an awesome character. : D
     
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  14. Lance Toris

    Lance Toris Rebelscum

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    So that basically would negate all that we know about Mothma, Organa, etc. in the way of them starting the Rebellion. I am just not convinced that is true based on Nest's single line of dialogue that seemed more symbolic than all-encompassing.
     
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  15. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    no, it just means Enfys went to the people like Mon Mothma, Bail, etc.; people with a farther reach/capacity and the start of some ready resources and said: here's enough coaxium to power a fleet ~ when can we start the fight?

    in Leia: Princess of Alderaanm you see how careful the organizers of the Rebellion are before the war kicks off; how they are planning and struggling to gain supporters and resources. Enfys Nest is just one of these.
     
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  16. Lance Toris

    Lance Toris Rebelscum

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    Yeah your scenario makes sense and is fine. The point my friend was making was that this was the true genesis of the overall Rebellion and I find that to be a silly takeaway.
     
  17. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

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    Disney may start the rebellion whever they want.
    Remember, they threw everything but the films out.
    [​IMG]

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  18. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    Why not both?

    The Spectres often got missions from fulcrum that benefitted the greater coalition of Rebels outside of themselves, and most of them had no idea where these boons were going to.

    What if Enfys Nest and her Clound Riders simply report to a fulcrum (maybe the fulcrum!) and recovering this coaxium is simply one of their missions?

    That way, it's not necessary for Enfyst to be a high ranking Rebel conspirator, but still be involved in some of the early Rebellion.
     
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