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So how will they use old footage of Carrie Fisher

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode IX' started by KeithF1138, Aug 6, 2018.

  1. metadude

    metadude Rebelscum

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    I don't recall anything like that (i.e. have to take years of heavy training to learn the force ghost technique) being stated or implied in the PT. You're sure you're not assuming rules that aren't actually in the story?

    Okay but "I think that Anakin did it by..." is pretty much just you assuming your own logistics. It seems to me that the negative reactions to the idea are based on personal assumptions about how things work, and not really what's in the story itself.

    But is that stated somewhat or is it assumption?

    But is it ridiculous because it violates some story rules, or because it violates what you assume to be the rules? If Han appeared as a force ghost and then on the commentary JJ says "Luke learned how to use the force to help others. Like Qui-Gon did, but Luke could even help peole who weren't force users. That's how strong Luke was with the force. So Luke helped him do it so he can see Ben one last time" would that alleviate your feelings? Or, what if we have the appearences take place by a force tree? Then on the commentary JJ says "Oh that was able to happen because of the force tree. Ben's connection to his parents was strong enough through the force to allow them to appear to him one last time. Plus Luke helped." Or if Luke appears at the end, tells Ben to clear his mind and reach out with his feelings, and Han appears as a force ghost would you seriously think "He can't do that, that's ridiculous. That's not how the force works."

    It just seems to me that the negative reactions are somewhat rigidly dogmatic, and the dogma doesn't appear to be based on anything but assumption. Did I ever tell you about the friend of mine who always scoffs at time-travel movies and remarks, "That's not how time travel works!" But hey, the good news is it's just speculation. That's what we do, right? But I guess I should keep my "Rey dies to save Ben, Ben is devastated, everyone weeps, then Luke brings her back to life!" what-if to myself. But it's so good... so ridiculous...
     
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  2. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    What I, and I think a lot of others, were expecting was a speaking role for Fisher. That she’d be participating in the story in some capacity. A Force ghost used as a button wouldn’t necessarily require unused footage. They could composite that using test frames from wardrobe fittings or publicity shots - her standing there, looking serene, wouldn’t be hard.

    I’m not in any way shooting down the premise. I’m just personally expecting something more substantial that would constitute an actual performance. Otherwise why bother announcing it? We wait the entire movie to see her . . . as a ghost? Why not leave something like that as a surprise? Y’know?
    If it was up to me (and what a horrifyingly misguided alternate universe that would be), I’d have the Leia character pass immediately after the events of TLJ due to the injuries she suffered during her unscheduled spacewalk. If I had to include her, I’d repurpose existing footage as a flashback. Possibly one between her and Poe where she imparts a piece of innocuous but profound advice. In the vein of Uncle Ben’s ‘great power, great responsibility’ spiel.

    Something that could then act as the underwriting theme for the entire episode. Each character journey would be a variation on that motif expressing it in different ways. Then Leia’s participation wouldn’t be some glorified cameo there for the feels, but the core of the whole narrative that everything revolves around. She wouldn’t be there, but the story would be hers.

    Something like that depends on a whole mess of ‘ifs’ for it to work. But that’s the most respectful, yet utilitarian application I can think of.
    Sure, again, I have nothing at all against the premise. I’m simply wanting more. I’m wanting Leia to matter to the story proper and not as a component of the coda. I want her to drive the story in some capacity. THEN, she can be a Force ghost :)
    You’re making a lot of presumptions here though, yeah? Chiefly, that this movie will end with a celebration with everyone embracing a la ROTJ. We’re certainly all expecting a triumphant climax with all our heroes together, but the exact circumstances are pretty nigh impossible to predict at this point however much JJ may be inclined to copy/paste. Yeah?
     
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  3. metadude

    metadude Rebelscum

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    "Wouldn't be hard" is the foundation of my speculation. And I agree that wouldn't be hard at all.

    Well, why announce Luke? Generate buzz? Isn't the question just as applicable to any scenario of use for repurposed footage?

    Well that would be really nice, sure. Bear in mind I was speculating something along those lines. The only thing in mind mind that I doubt is having Leia alive at the start and using the footage as if she is actually in the story proper as a living character. That is the scenario that causes me to think, how can this possibley work? It seems such a difficult and problem-laden scenario that, to me, the speculation is something very short, maybe a scene or two, either flashback or force ghost. The same idea works as force ghost, as well as flashback. A scene (or two?) where Leia appears and does an Uncle Ben - with the added scene at the end.

    Out of flashback and force ghost, I go with the latter. That because, whatever the idea, in JJ's fevered mind Leia just has to be in the film. The only thing that comes into my fevered speculative mind is, he planned for her to be there in the end as a force ghost, and this is how he does it. But a Leia flashback seems like an afterthought.

    She could appear prior to the ending in a scene with dialogue, then again at the ending. Since the word is that they're using more than one piece of footage, I'd speculate that's what will happen. Maybe appear to Rey with some dialogue, then again at the end.

    There are some presumptions, yes. Some speculations. But it does follow. The premise is that preplanned force ghost Leia at the end causes necessary use of footage for a Leia force ghost. If that's the case, there's an RotJ-like end scene for the use. That also causes the side effect of alleviating the "pain" some feel over the RotJ end scene being "ruined" since it restores it in a way that would maintain the integrity of both the OT and ST endings.
     
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  4. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    I think they will still kill her off but perhaps use the flashback scene of her with a young Ben at the end? Or maybe just have her be in hiding, use some generic resistance scenes and then cut and paste her into the final cheesy SW ending shot?
     
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  5. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    Using deleted or not used scenes of Carrie Fisher and then killing her off would make people very mad. "Why bringing her back if you just kill her off?" No, it's very likely that she will survive now.
     
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  6. Ridcully

    Ridcully Jedi General

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    All I need is seeing from a distance, after a long path to redemption, riding Leia and Ben off into the sunset
     
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  7. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    I just can't see how they can find a bit of footage that provides enough depth to her character whilst keeping her alive. I'd much rather they found a way to give her a satisfying end whilst still including her. Clearly, the important story aspect would've been between her and Ben. My feeling is that they could use some of the flashback stuff they shot in TFA, some voice overs etc and have her come to a conflicted Ben in visions. The idea that she will just be tacked on with a few clips from the last films in her resistance role is a bit weak in my view.
     
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  8. Bandini

    Bandini Force Sensitive

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    It's unecessary, we're grown people and we all know what death means.

    Maybe they shouldn't have put her 3/4 of the movie in a coma when you have such a character as Leia Organa but it is too late.
     
  9. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    That's life. EPIX should have been Leia's movie. TFA was Han's and TLJ was Luke's one. They couldn't have known that Carrie Fisher would die.
     
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  10. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    There is a lot more footage out there that didn't make it to the deleted scenes. includes TLJ.
     
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  11. Angelman

    Angelman Force Attuned

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    Leia is gonna do in ep.IX what she didn't get to do in TFA, namely work to galvanize the galaxy against tve First Order at a political level. That's what, by all accounts, those deleted TFA scenes were about so that's what we'll get.
     
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  12. Trev

    Trev Rebel General

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    I know this is kind of an old thread, but I came across an interesting comment that might add something to the conversation. I don’t remember where I saw it (I think it was Reddit), but someone suggested that there might actually be footage of Kylo and Leia together.

    If you look at some of the behind-the-scenes footage from The Last Jedi, it looks like Adam Driver and Carrie Fisher might have shot the scene before Leia’s spacewalk together. All of Kylo and Rey’s Force connections were shot with both actors present — that’s why Adam went to Ireland with Mark and Daisy even though Kylo didn’t have any scenes on the island besides when he and Rey touch hands.

    That being said, it’s possible that they filmed both actors together, and even if they didn’t, I would imagine they have enough footage of Leia simply standing there where they could easily make a scene work where Ben comes back and you see them embrace.

    I just feel like, after all the crap Leia has been through, she deserves to see her son come home. If they have enough footage of her standing there, they could easily have Adam film something where he approaches her and then they could have a body double stand in for the embrace. Or they could use some unused footage (if there is any) from when Rey and Leia hugged in The Force Awakens.

    I don’t know. I’m not expecting much more than some political behind-the-scenes stuff, much like what her role in The Force Awakens originally was. But it would be REALLY nice to see her have some sort of interaction with Ben if and when he returns to the light side.
     
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  13. Angelman

    Angelman Force Attuned

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    It would indeed be fantastically awesome to see a Leia & Ben scene in Ep.IX -- and I really hope this pans out -- however, I believe that, realistically speaking, we need to be careful not to get our hopes up. There's a limit to what they can do with the left-over material, and while I'm sure they'll wizard it as much as possible, we must be prepared for not getting everything we want here. That said... oh man, it would be fantastic if we got to see Ben & Leia interact :)
     
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  14. Trev

    Trev Rebel General

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    Agreed. I think a lot of people went into The Last Jedi with certain expectations and ended up not liking it because it didn’t meet those expectations — I think that’s really interesting, because I had very specific expectations regarding Rey’s parentage, Luke, Rey’s relationship with Kylo, etc. and they were all totally subverted, which made me love the movie even more than I thought was possible.

    But that being said, I also know it’s unhealthy to set yourself up for disappointment. I’m just happy Leia will be in this film in some capacity, because she deserves it. I really don’t have high expectations for what they will be able to do with her story arc — if she’s able to accomplish more than what I think, it’ll be beyond a pleasant surprise.

    But if there’s one thing that COULD happen, I would love to see her and Ben interact in some way because I think their relationship is so important and has yet to really be addressed in this trilogy the way his relationships with Han and Luke were.

    We’ll see what happens, though. Like I said, the fact that she’s even in the film is more than enough to make me happy. :)
     
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  15. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Rebel General

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    I don't think they are going to limit themselves to left over material. I think the whole "we will use cut scenes" was just done for PR purposes. They'll CGI (and get a voice actor) for anything and everything they want to do with the character. So I think that opens up a great opportunity for interaction between those 2 characters.
     
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  16. Angelman

    Angelman Force Attuned

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    I don't know. They've been pretty respectful towards Carrie and her memory thus far, and I don't think LFL/JJ/KK would want to lie about something like that. Now, I do agree it is totally possible -- they having already decided to go down the road of featuring Leia in ep.IX -- that we could get a further clarification on them using CGI generated imagery to tie filmed scenes together and so on, but I do not believe they would to that without stating it in a press release. So... unless JJ & Co. comes out qualifying the Leia situation again, I don't think we'll see anything but restored & tweaked deleted/discarded scenes of Leia in ep.IX.
     
  17. SegNerd

    SegNerd Rebel Commander

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    It’s not exactly a black-or-white thing. It’s more of a continuum in terms of how it could be used:

    1. Use the footage as is with no editing whatsoever
    2. Use the footage but add a few special affects
    3. Use existing footage but move things around/change other characters to change the meaning
    4. Use a couple of CGI shots and revoice a few words to smooth things over.
    5. Complete CGI Leia like in R1

    They have said they are not going to do 5, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they are going to do 1 - there is some room for interpretation in what we have been told so far.
     
  18. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Rebel General

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    I'm expecting #4. And I am perfectly cool with that (in fact, that is what I hope they do). Although I am expecting a little more than voicing over "a few" words.
     
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