The Last Jedi and The Rise of Skywalker

Didn't Paltptine wanted Rey to be dead towards the beginning of the TROS? I don't see any contradictions here from TLJ, the movie even futher cemented that her parents were a nobody.

 

The answer is literally within the same post.

 

Dude The emperor literally said it at the beginning of the movie. Rewatch the film

Emperor Palpatine: "The might of the Final Order will soon be ready. It will be yours if you do as I ask. Kill the girl. End the Jedi. And become what your grandfather, Vader, could not. You will rule all the galaxies as the new emperor. But beware, she is not who you think she is."

If he contradicted himself in TLJ, he contradicted him in this film as well. So no TLJ wasn't being retconning in this instance. what you said is irrelevant in this case because the person who I was replaying too wasn't referring to that quote.

 

And I'm telling you, dude, that what he says in the beginning of the movie makes no sense to what D-0 tells Finn about Ochi's actual mission being to bring Rey back to Granpalpatine safe. THAT is what contradicts both TLJ and TROS.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you about this. You're picking a fight when there isn't one. In the context of the post, what I said is still true.

 

My 2 credits:

The Snoke we saw in TLJ was possibly not a clone, as he could've been the original (the ancient threat that Serkis, for instance, talked about). He might very well have had ambitions of his own and, since we don't know what being a puppet of Palpaltine actually entails, Snoke was perhaps not even aware that he was being controlled (or the extent to which he was controlled). He could very well have been doing his own thing with only peripheral influence from Palpy in his head.

As for Palpatine wanting/not wanting to kill Rey, remember that,
1) Palpatine lies a lot to manipulate and goad his would-be servants;
2) He wasn't entirelly up-to-speed on the Rey situation, being unaware that she and Ben formed a Force dyad until they stood there Force bonding before him (causing him to make a change of plans);
3) Palpy is a man of convoluted, high-stakes plots and deep-reaching contingencies and he might very well have had several scenarios in mind for how he wanted to deal with/use Rey to his end, including,

a) to kill her (removing the greatest threat to him alive in the galaxy & a beacon of Light to facilitate his own dark machinations);
b) possessing her (which, IMHO, was always probably a long shot, especialy once Palpy learned just how powerful she was, and in any case he always had Kylo to fall back on there, the Vader Remade);
c) siphoning her life-force Skeksis style to invigorate his current (cloned?) corpse;
d) and possibly additional scenarios beside.
​

It seems very clear to me that Palpatine is improvicing here.

I count TLJ as the greatest Star Wars ever made, loving every detail of it, and personally I have no trouble reconciling RoS with TLJ


It is easy to find fault with any movie if one tries to find them. I propose instead that everyone will get a better experience with Star Wars if they apply their brain power to figure out how this could work, rather than trying to make it not. To me, (after two viewings), RoS syncs quite well with TLJ

 

That how I felt about the movie when I watch the movie both times. I felt that it expanded TLJ ideas not take them away.

 

I partially agree with the sentiment - it is the key reason I don't intent to spend my free time trying to tear this movie down. However, to me, what separates a good script from a bad one, is that you shouldn't force your audience to devote considerable brain power trying to justify how something works in your film - you should force them to devote it trying to find if something doesn't - and hopefully have them come up empty.

 

For instance here are three that come to mind from what I can remember in TROS:

Palpatine's redemption begins in TPM and culminates in TROS. Think of the overtone of the idea of family as one. Sheev and Rey as one family body: they are Palpatine. Anakin and his offspring are one family body: Skywalker. In TPM Palpatine initiated a series of events that would be bookended by the full redemption of both Palpatine and Skywalker through Rey and Ben. Think of Palpatine as one with two sides: Sheev the dark side and Rey the light side, and that one being redeemed through the light side vanquishing the dark side of the one family body. Episodes 1-6 are the redemption of Skywalker, and episodes 1-9 are the redemption of Palpatine through Skywalker. The Rise of Skywalker is the same as The Redemption of Palpatine (since Palpatine becomes Skywalker in the end).

TPM is founded on the theme of the symbiotic relationship, which comes to the full in TROS in that Skywalker and Palpatine benefit one another by healing (both literally and spiritually) each other in turn through Rey and Ben. So the concept bookends with the culmination of the symbiotic relationship began in TPM.

In TPM Skywalker leaves Tatooine(home) to become a Jedi, in TROS Skywalker becomes a Jedi and returns to Tatooine(home).

 

TROS is meaningless without TLJ...
Everything in TLJ relies on everything that was set up in TFA, and everything that happens in TROS relies on everything that happens in TLJ.
TROS also makes everything that happened in TLJ that much more important than it already was.

Cheers,
Jayson

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 25, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 25, 2019 ---

Quite.

In another thread I just wrote that the PT is about loss, OT is about salvation, and ST is about healing.

Ben and Rey are the PT and OT incarnate, and the ST is entirely about unification of the two.

Cheers,
Jayson

 

Nice post!

--- Double Post Merged, May 9, 2021 ---

How does one like a post? Do I not have enough posts yet for it?

 

Got it. Thanks!

 

Palptine did two things 1. He told Ren to kill Rey and he revealed Rey’s true identity to Ren. He knew that Ren (being smitten with Rey) would reveal the truth to her. Rey would freak out and attack Ren. She would be able to kill him either by getting the upper hand on Ren or most likely Ren would allow her to ‘win’ because he’s so deeply in love with her that he can’t bring himself to hurt her. Rey would kill Ren and fly to Exogol in a rage and strike down Palpatine and he would transfer his essence into her body. In the event that Rey dies, Palpatine will just continue to manipulate/torment Ben the way he has been doing since he was a child and rule that way. Rey was Palpatine’s prime plan and Ren was his back up plan. Either way he would win.


What Palpatine doesn’t know is that Ren has really grown a…spine and won’t be anyone’s dog on a leash and refused to go along with his plan.


And that deep down Rey does not want to be ruled by her rage/anger and her ability to hurt others. She’s ashamed of it and wants to master it. She refused to strike Palpatine down and only came close to doing it when he tried to blackmail her into saving her friends (as playing on her guilt).

 

One thing that I remembered now is the Snoke's theme for The Last Jedi soundtrack.

If you hear this music you won't hear anything new. I mean, there isn't a specific song created for Snoke but a bunch of other songs. You can hear the Chorus from the Opera Spectacle (a nod to Palpatine?), Imperial March (Vader's theme) and Kylo's theme.

If you analyse by this way probably Palpatine was there as a puppeteer all the time. Even if the idea of bringing back Palpatine was just decided in the last moment during the writing of TROS.

 

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

This is the biggest problem of the film, apart from the lack of a plot and bad dialogue.
It's telling that we don't even start at the beginning, but the middle - 'somehow, the Emperor has returned'.
Er..how? All that 'clone' stuff goes from the sublime to the ridiculous. As does the Emperor offering Kylo Ren a Sith army - when both Abrams and Hidalgo, during promo for TFA, repeatedly insisted neither Snoke or Kylo were Siths.

What could have worked - what I actually believed initially what they were doing - was having the Emperor return as a kind of 'dark' version of a FG. That I could get behind. But no. They wanted him back in the (rotting) flesh. And it just...didn't work. At least, not to me.

Then we have all the other retconning.
Rey's parents. Suddenly, they're heroes - who chose to leave their daughter with a greasy character like Unkar Plutt.
Luke actually telling Rey: 'Who are you?' in TLJ - then revealing he had known all along she was a Palpatine.
Jedi Leia. If Leia had had Jedi training....why didn't she train Ben instead of sending him away, which she acknowledged in TFA had cost her her son and husband. That didn't do her character any favours at all.
Why did Finn suddenly go from the responsible man he'd become in TLJ back to Rey's sidekick? He spent most of the film running around screaming REEEEY!
Why did Poe have a completely different new backstory? And why did he go from a committed rebel into a Han Solo clone?

Most of all....how in the name of sanity did a highly intelligent man like Hux put up with letting Kylo Ren dictate to him for a YEAR when an idiot could see he was lying about who killed Snoke? Hux could easily have ousted him, Force or no Force. A bomb placed on his TIE fighter - and bingo. Hux commanded the armies. According to tie in material there were cameras in Snoke's throne room; the Supremacy died a slow death - Hux could have gotten a couple of scavengers to go over the wreckage finding evidence Kylo had lied about Snoke. Kylo was a powerful Force user...but at the end of the day, he was still one man. I remember reading years ago in the post ESB comics a great 'what if' where a group of fed up Imperial officers plotted to assassinate Darth Vader - and very nearly succeeded, by simply opening an airlock behind him. I'm sure they could have come up with some idea.

I still find it hard that professional writers wrote TROS - the plot ripped off everything from ROTJ to Raiders of the Lost Ark to Avengers Endgame, I've read better fan fiction.

 

That explanation is scheduled to come soon after it's explained how the thousand years extinct Sith "returned" in the first place. (The basis for this entire saga. It's like starting a story by going "The earth was noticed to have started rotating in the opposite direction one day.... But anyway, Barzini is dead. So is Tatalgia, Mo Green..." )

 

Well, my idea and what I had imagined back there with all the especulations was that Palpatine would appeared as a holoprojection, to give some instructions or guidance, to the one who potentially find his whereabouts, or in the remains of the Death Star or in a particularly hideout.

Unfortunately we finished seen him in flesh and bones as a clone, brought back by the acolytes.

I like TROS but as a stand alone movie, I really don't think that the last chapter works with the two previous movies.

 

You get horse head and you, you get a horse head! Everybody gets a horsehead!!



Better than sleeping with the fishes, but I digress....