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The Music of TROS

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by RoyleRancor, Dec 21, 2020.

  1. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    This video from Sideways on the musical choices in TROS put a whole lot of issues I had with the movie but hadn't been able to properly verbalize them into the words I needed.



    If you don't want to watch the video short version is this:
    There is heavy reliance on old themes at odd times to the point that it weakens and even removes their status as specific themes. We hear Yoda's theme when there is no Yoda. We hear the force theme when there is no force. We hear Vader's theme when there is no Vader. We hear Palpatine's theme when there is no Palpatine.

    The music bugged me and I couldn't place why and this sums it up. It's basically manipulating the audience to like a moment that it hasn't earned with musical cues from past movies that drum up the appropriate feelings it wants us to feel. Like playing the Death Star destruction cue when something not as significant happens.

    I hadn't seen this before but I wish I had because I almost feel bad posting it now as it may seem like dog-piling but it felt revelatory to me and wanted to share.

    I don't want to feel negative today so here's the same channel talking about the Rogue One score in a glowing fashion:
     
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  2. The Birdwatcher

    The Birdwatcher Rebel Official

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    Or, it's an extreme case of parallelism.

    I've watched that video also, and it is (as far as I know) the sum result of commercialization, re-hash, and nostalgia. I don't know if it is manipulation or not.

    It's interesting, and I was just thinking about this- if a score is good, but the surrounding context or reasoning isn't as fleshed out, then fans will remember it as being good. Such as, Battle of the Heroes from Revenge of the Sith- the fight is pretty good at the beginning (the context and reasonings are actually poor, as Confused Matthew has pointed out), and later on it is Obi-Wan and Anakin jumping on tiny platforms, narrowly avoiding the lava flows (and somehow the heat). As far as I know, the original fight and idea was supposed to be Obi-Wan and Vader (and Luke's father) fighting in a volcano in the middle of a forest. Lethal Lava Land is a step too far from realism, I think, even though it's still a cool idea.

    The Dark Side Beckons is another example, which I see defended as can be on YouTube comments. It's a great Star Wars track, but within context, it feels superficial and confusing (from Luke's reasons and the retcon of Leia being Luke's sister, which gives him motivation in this case, as he believes that Leia can't fight against Vader- Vader's too much for her, even though she resisted him in ANH), as Luke is spineless (with his belief of Leia not being able to resist Vader) and doesn't believe that the rebellion has any other options to survive if Leia turns to the dark side.

    We hear Vader's theme when there is no Vader.

    I think you mean Vader's death theme on the ruins of the Death Star II. It is meant to evoke memories of Death Star II, right before it was destroyed. Yes, it is taken out of context, as the focus there was on Vader's death and eliciting sympathy and wonder for Vader's face, condition, and death.
     
  3. The Last Jorgny

    The Last Jorgny Rebel Official

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    My interpretation of that is that we heard that specific version of the theme the last time we were on the death star. Really reinforced that feeling of "Woah, we're back on the second death star" for me. I don't think it fits that bad. But there are other exampels in the movie that I don't think fit at all. Like Luke and Leias theme AND Yoda's theme at the resistance base. They feel like they are placed there for no reason. That is very dissapointing, since both of those themes were used PERFECTLY in TLJ.
     
  4. Whipswar

    Whipswar Rebelscum

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    Don't make me cry again :( Such a beautiful. beautiful moment. One of the best in the trilogy.

    But overall, I think there is some cool discussion going on here regarding the music in TROS. Likely, TROS was filled with many of these famous songs simply because we were ending the Skywalker saga, and these were going to be the last times we ever heard these themes from a main line Star Wars movie (at least for a long time). The creative producers in charge probably just wanted to have them in there as homages to these pieces of music that shaped all of Star Wars. I mean, it was composed by John Williams, the same guy who had used them in all the other eight films "correctly".

    From what I understand, Williams had a far more direct control over the music in the Sequel Trilogy. Lucas had a lot of input into the score, had a good understanding of classical music, and got Williams to change things around when wanted. As far as I know, for the ST, he was given full reign with, likely, very little input from anyone "in charge of" the movie.

    This is likely why you have some weird discrepancies in the usage of these pieces. Different philosophies on how to use them and what they mean to the overall story or theme have likely made an impact, whether large or small, on the score since 1977, whether that's Williams', Lucas', Abrams', Jonhson's, Kennedy's, etc.
     
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