Thoughts and Opinions on TROS' Story

I changed my mind.

I think the first thing JJ put on paper when LFL asked him to start this trilogy is :

Palpatine cheated death.

Now, that I have processed that all, I think that JJ's plan for this trilogy was this one :

The rule of 2 is a sacrificial ritual which permits the apprentice to become the master and all his masters before him, all the siths are living in the actual Sith Lord ( which is clever because you always ask why do you want an apprentice, he will at the end kill you ).

At the end of VI, the emperor asked Luke to kill him with a big smile on his face like he asked Rey to "DO IT" in ep IX but because of Anakin, the ritual didn't take place and Palps had to cheat death by some manners some people would think unnatural ... in order to find another one who is worth his power. Ben Solo and then Rey ...

Ben Solo on his side finally finished what his grandfather started : Saving the one he loved from dying and sort of removing the curse of the dark side of his family.

If I only see 7 and 9, this is big story I see through it.

You might like it or not but this StarWarsly coherent.

Unfortunately by not coordinating the movies Disney completely spoiled this.

 

I'm definitely not intentionally looking for reasons to negatively criticize. I've been a lover of the ST since its beginning, and it pained me to write out the negative thoughts on TROS that I've been having.

You voice your support of themes from TLJ, and disgust with people saying TROS is nothing but a retcon. I also expressed these ideas. Directly. In my post.

The themes and callbacks in TROS that you mention are also elements that I, and most, can easily see and interpret. I just find them underwhelming and lazy.

Just because someone finds fault in the film doesn't mean they've been unable to "look below the surface." Perhaps they've easily seen through the incredibly thin and poorly constructed layer that is "the surface" and are disappointed at the actual substance "under the surface."


I don't mean to draw out this negativity. I can see most people in the thread enjoyed the film. Just replying to those who address me.

 

I don't think TLJ really did anything super counter productive to this, though. In fact, it seems there are several hints about Palpatine's involvement in Episode IX. Luke namedrop's Darth Sidious just to get the ball rolling, when Snoke tortures Rey, Palpatine's theme plays (foreshadowing that his is behind Snoke), and regarding Rey's lineage when Luke is training her she goes straight to the dark. In this regard, TLJ kind of actually serves as a good middle chapter. It gives subtle hints of what's to come and also massively develops the characters. Rey learns to be her own person and that her lineage doesn't matter (this makes the Palpatine reveal an easier pill for her to swallow), Finn learns that the Resistance as a whole is important, not just Rey, and thanks to Rose, he finds something bigger than himself to fight for (this acceptance of something bigger than himself is key to his ability to start realizing his Force sensitivity), Poe becomes a better leader (which sets him to be more confident in his command once Leia has passed on, he now understands the power of hope), Luke finally embraces his role as a Jedi and regains his status as a legend (this leads the ability of the Resistance to find others willing to fight in TROS as well as allows him to advise Rey as a wise Force Ghost rather than a bitter failure) and Leia, with Luke's death, becomes the last remaining familial connection to Kylo Ren (which sets her up to embrace the Jedi path to complete Rey's training and also use her empathetic Force powers to influence her son turning back to the light.)

I know a lot of people hate TLJ, but the character development it gave to nearly every character in the film really seemed to mesh better with TROS than people are giving it credit for. On a side note, even Hux's development in TLJ (though lots of people thought he was turned into a joke) set him up for his role in TROS. In TLJ we see him angry at Ren's decision to take command of his army and this follows through in TROS where he has become a First Order mole in order to try and unseat Kylo as the Supreme Leader.

I think the more rewatches people give this trilogy, the more they will begin to see the overarching story, even including TLJ.

 

Sorry, maybe you have a point here, specially one character in concret, but I have to disagree for the most part of your post.

Sorry again, you don't agree with how many characters died and at the same time praise TLJ, but you forget that TLJ was and absolute yes and no situations that drives you crazy. The repetitive yes and no situations in TROS are nothing compared with TLJ.

Rose's sister no-yes-no-yes dropping bombs
Leia's death and coming back
Luke's decisions
Finn sacrifice a yes-no (ship and crait)
Rose sacrifice a no-yes (ship and crait)
Phasma yes-no-yes
Entire fleet a yes-no-yes-no-yes scape

Everything too much elaborate and far-fetched, in my opinion.

 

@Benjamin Lewis Ok. Thank you for clarifying your point-of-view. I disagree with you, but at least we can have a dialogue.

@GingerByte Shortly after Celebration, JJ Abrams answered a direct question about the decision to bring back Palpatine by specifically mentioning that he and Chris Terrio talked with George before they started writing the script, tying those conversations directly to Palpatine's return and the importance of having TRoS function as the end of a Trilogy of Trilogies.

And as far as the lore stuff goes, the things Palpatine says are also consistent with the nature of the Force and the Dark Side as George helped personally establish it in The Clone Wars.

 

Of course doesnt turn and think. "Time to get get redeemed". Redemption is something that people outside of the movie give him. The act of selflessness is what the Force uses to say yes he should become 1 with the Force.

So you are all for the Happily Ever After ending. Yes I know the duality of Kylo/Ben like Vader/Anakin. Is it your view that Anakin died because of the things he did before he became Darth Vader and Ben shouldnt have died because he didnt commit acts like that before he became Kylo Ren?

Can someone who wanted the Happily Ever After ending please show me in some other piece of fiction (or history) where a person who was as involved directly and/or indirectly that was allowed to live Happily Ever After. Just one. I am really struggling with this.

 

I feel a need to be clear about something regarding TRoS: all of my impressions about it relative to how it connects to previous films and what its story beats do were formed after a single, first-time viewing.

 

How did Palpatine have a kid? I was thinking it had to have happened around the time of ROTJ.

 

He's the emperor, he can have any woman he wants.

 

The Legends EU introduced the idea that Palpatine had taken concubines and fathered a son by one of said concubines, and I personally believe that the notion was repurposed for the new Canon either as a result of Rey being made a Palpatine or in support of it.

 

You're really stretching. I stated that I had an issue with characters dying, and then being resurrected. Over and over. This did not happen in TLJ. So the insinuation that I'm being hypocritical doesn't really stick here.

Also, I "forgot" that TLJ drives me crazy? Thanks for letting me know, I guess.

 

Introduction the idea that Leia is at least as strong as Luke if not stronger makes no sense! Why didn't she remove the rocks at the end of Last Jedi then instead of Rey!? Why was finding Like SUCH a big deal if she was basically his equal.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 23, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 23, 2019 ---

Snoke's guards were stronger then the Knights of Ren...and had weapons that could block lightsabers...yeah

 

You're manufacturing reasons to criticize this movie that only in your own mind.

 

Rey is too OP. I don't care that she's a Palpatine... Anakin was...HIMSELF and was still weaker then her (at the end) with over decade of training. "All the Jedi are in me"....WHAT. Where does that come from. She was able to deflect Palpy's force lightning Windu style cuz Windu was in her... Nonsense. How can I accept that Rey (that I love don't get me wrong) became stronger then Yoda, Windu, Dooku, Palpatine, NAME IT with less training then TPM Obi-Wan ...naaaaah don't give me them"all the Jedi are in me explanations"

 

That would explain where that black obsidian pedestal came from that Vader's helmet is sitting on.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 23, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 23, 2019 ---

This is one Star Wars movie where I'd appreciate a Director's commentary track on the Blu-ray

 

I would suggest that you go familiarize yourself with some auxiliary lore from stories like The Clone Wars and Rebels, because what we learn about the Sith and see Rey tap into is not at all inconsistent with the way that the Force has been Canonically presented over the last several years.

 

Say what you will about Last Jedi (I love it but recognize its flaws) but at least it had interesting ideas. I loved how Kylo was all about letting go of the past. Broke his mask not to be a Vader wanna be but his own self. Killed Snoke to become his own boss. Made it clear to us that he wasn't gonna be turned to the light again like Vader cuz that would be so unoriginal and expected right....RIGHT. Nah actually he got his mask back, became Palpatine's pawn and became good again cuz mama said "Ben"before dying.... NONSENSE. Kylo is my favorite ST character but I'm disappointed.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 23, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 23, 2019 ---

I HATED how they tossed Rose aside for Finn's 3rd potential girlfriend Poe's friend that looked like a cross between Ant-Man and Ultraman.

 

^ If you can't see that Ben was always headed for a redemption arc, I don't really know what to say.

Also, Rose wasn't "tossed aside"; JJ just chose to make other characters more central to his story, which is absolutely his prerogative and a very fair decision.s

I also don't have any idea what you're on about with this "Finn's 3rd potential girlfriend Poe's friend that looked like a cross between Ant-Man and Ultraman" clapback.

 

I'M NOT A CLONE. I'M THE SUPREME LEADER OF THE FIRST ORDER!!!! DON'T BE DISRESPECTING ME LIKE THAT!

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 23, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 23, 2019 ---

Imagine folks in the village seeing Kylo just swinging his lightsaber left and right in the air at nothing cuz they don't know he's fighting Rey in the ship....maybe that's what the star wars kid was doing.

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I shouldn't have to rely on anything outside the movies to make sense of the movies. Considering that the vast majority of movie goers will never see anything other then the movies, they should make sense on their own. The OT and PT mostly do so there's no excuses. I believe you but this movie dropped to many nonsensical things within the in-movies lore and it bothered me