Thoughts and Opinions on TROS' Story

Palps can cheat death, it's canon. Ben Solo is accomplishing what Anakin started, save the one he loves from dying.

There is no heresy out there.

 

I don't deny the film had its "explanations" for the resurrections.

 

This movie does stand on its own perfectly fine, but the nature of your criticisms demonstrates that you do need to be aware of what has been done with the Force and its nature outside of this movie; otherwise, said criticisms wouldn't exist.

 

Yeah, now way in the Sith Afterlife was JJ ever going to have anything but praise for RJ when commenting publicly. Disney was paying him a ton, he had to tow the company line.

That said, I don’t think TROS invalidated anything from TLJ. But I think Luke’s comment “a jedis weapon should be treated with more respect” is at least a subtle jab at some of the directions RJ took what JJ teed up in TFA.

 

It's not; when Rey gave that saber to him, he didn't consider it to be "a Jedi's weapon" because he had renounced the Jedi as a philosophical Order.

His line is a tacit acknowledgement of the change Rey - and Yoda - wrought in his mindset that allowed him to do what he did in projecting himself to Crait.

 

The oceans on Ach-to may not be saltwater, and the X-Wing may not have been made of a metal that succumbs to rust and degradation. We forget sometimes that two planets are the same, similar perhaps but not the same. Our real-world references and scientific laws are not necessarily applicable on other bodies.

 

I just figured she learned it from one of the Jedi texts that she has.

Also, she was using the force to "feel" the emotions/thoughts of the creature which she then realize the creature was in pain and probably scared. Ezra did something similar in Rebels. He was able to "feel" various creatures' thoughts using the force and Kanan didn't teach him that.

 

Agree that there really is no "heresy" in the film. I'll go further in saying that some of us fans wield "canon" like it's a weapon, like its dogma and that nothing new can be introduced unless there is precedent for it to have come before.

To me, such a notion STIFLES creativity, I mean after all, in the end, these are just fairy tales in space.

Despite the lack of "heresy" it's really the execution that is lacking in Episode 9 (for me). This film never establishes much emotion, it never asks you to FEEL anything other than "wheeeeee what a fun roller coaster ride!".

And that's a subjective reaction, there is no RIGHT way to react to this film, there's only a personal way to react to it. The trick is to not delude yourself that your reaction is the "definitive" one, or worse, that those who don't have the same reaction are somehow "inferior fans".

I loved Episode 7, like Episode 8 and find Episode 9 a complete misfire. I wager MANY of you have different reactions to all three films. That's okay. It should always be okay.

 

But TLJ took care of that itself. Luke chose to appear on Crait with that saber. Then proclaimed the continuity of the Jedi order. And then, Leia looks down at the broken hilt and said it was everything they need.

All Luke does is confirm this by calling back to his and Rey’s first meeting. It’s hard for me to imagine Luke not having made that reference when being reunited with Rey. Especially in light of the rehabilitation of the saber which began in the final scenes of TLJ.

 

The big issue for me for this movie is the pacing and ending. The pacing was way to fast. The action scenes felt mundane instead of awesome because the diaologue scnese were shot in a fast pace manner. The second issue I have with the ending, is Ben Solo dying too fast. We finally get Ben Solo and he dead five minutes later. Rey taking the Skywalker name didn't sit well with me. If you are going to kill off the family, then kill them off. I would had prefer Rey say at the end, I'm Rey, a Jedi Knight, like my Jedi Masters the Skywalkers before me. Obviously written better then what I wrote, but something in that vain. If your going to kill of Ben, he should have been a Force Ghost with his mommy and uncle at the end.

 

First up, total noob to these forums so be gentle.
I'm also what I'd class as a big fan of the Star Wars universe as an avenue of escapism and wonder (and have done since I saw the original in the cinema) but I don't pretend to have anywhere near the level of fandom/knowledge that a lot of the posters on this site do (not saying that in a negative way, just explaining myself).
Secondly, I'd like to say that it's been a pleasure to read the different and varied opinions and thoughts on TROS so far, some I agree with, others I don't but to each their own and all that.

To the question at hand, from my point of view, I thought the film was a blast.
Yes it was frantic but there was a lot of ground to cover in a short space of time (I agree with some others that the run time could have been longer to take some of it in) but I think that on additional veiwings, once the "oh look it's" moments aren't a surprise anymore the pace of the film will be much less of an issue.
A lot of the fanboy moments made me grin from ear to ear, just because it tied the film (for me) to the older memories I have of the universe I like to play in.

I also didn't have an issue with Palpatine being brought back as I'm from the era of reading the Dark Empire comics and the EU books so I've sort of been there before with that one.

As for the rest of it, I thought the main cast seemed to gel really well in this episode, which meant that it was easier to be part of the film as opposed to just watching it.
The conclusion to the Skywalker line was well pitched and while I understand the nuances of Ben's sacrifice and why he died, I was genuinely shocked and saddened by the briefness of the scene as it felt like a smack in the chops (compared to something like Vaders last moments, which had the entire getting to the shuttle, the escape from the Death Star and funeral pyre scenes to digest what had happened).
The battle with the Star Destroyers didn't seem as coordinated as some of the battles from previous films. It didn't detract from the spectacle of the scene, it just made it somewhat difficult tracking who was doing what at the pace it ran at.

All in all though, I thoroughly enjoyed the whole film. I left the cinema wanting to watch it again which for me is always a good thing.

As a side note, I took my long suffering (non fan) wife with me to see the film. fan
She has never had anything to do with the EU/Legends or TV based media concerning Star Wars and has only watched (all) the films because of my (repeated) viewings. Her exact words on leaving the cinema were "I really enjoyed that, the whole story was finished off nicely".
If a total non fan gets the story and enjoyed the outcome, they must have done something right.

 

It is nice that discussions about TRoS aren't filled with as much anger as they were with the previous film.

I also thought the film was a blast. It's similar to how I feel about RotJ and TFA - there are problems with the movie that I'm not blind to. Some of the plot points are illogical (at least without further explanation), not all of the character arcs feel completely earned, and most of all - it feels over stuffed, like there's two films worth of story condensed into one movie. But, what the movie does well, it does very well - and for me, the positives are so strong that I don't really care about the faults.

At it's best, Star Wars instills me with a feeling I don't get from other properties. And with TRoS, I felt very early on, and it stayed with me all the way to the end.

 

Didn't notice first time.
After my second viewing (even more emotional) I can affirm Nien Nunb dies. Thanks for the good talks buddy. I will miss you too.

 

At it's core, SW is about family. That's why it's been able to resonate with so many generations even after it's "hiatus" so to speak. Even in this strange space opera, there's that core that people can relate to. That's not something that other blockbusters or franchies have.

 

Lady Iboshi (not sure that’s how you spell it.) in Studio Ghibli’s princess mononoke. I saw that when I was 8 or 9 years old and to me it’s deals with some very similar themes to Star Wars, particularly this new trilogy.

I do not think the actual idea of ‘forgiveness’ or like, a second chance, is well understood in the West. I have no idea why it’s so difficult to comprehend but it seems to be.

I also would have been fine with Vader surviving and seeking forgiveness, trying to make things right.

within a story like star wars, the characters and journeys they go on are cautionary tales and allegorical. So me wanting Ben Solo to survive even though he murdered other characters is because I belive the moral is that it’s never too late to make amends, to change your path. And that is more useful as a message that ‘if you do too many bad things we will demand you die.’
He didn’t kill real people, they are story book characters. If we were to take Star Wars literally then Finn, Poe and every rebel kill a lot of storm troopers and these aren’t clones or droids, they’re brainwashed indoctrinated kids. So like... it’s a war right? So what Kylo Ren did as a general in a war is no less destructive than was Poe and Finn did. However it feels different coz it framed that he is making the ‘wrong’ decisions. This is only possible because we know it is an allegorical story and not a real war in deep space somewhere.

so why should Kylo Ren have to die for killing rebel soldiers when Poe is totally allowed to shoot indoctrinated kid stormtroopers?

 

I enjoyed the movie.
Actually a lot more than I thought I would.
One thing that keeps bugging me though - If he could raise the X-wing for Rey, why didn't Luke raise the X-wing in TLJ and save the day rather than sacrifice himself from across the galaxy????
At least we were introduced to 3POs oldest friend! LOL

 

Indeed it is. But that cheapens every appearance. Why does it matter if he's "killed this time," since he can just come back? It sets a bad precedence, and I don't like it. And worst of all is that there's not cost to it. It cost no one in the story time or energy to bring Palpatine back again. Heck, if he came back a third time I wouldn't be surprised.

Now that I like...but Rey had already died. But I guess it was close enough after her death to be fine.

...you know...you've got a great point...

 

Today's exchange between @DigificWriter, @Benjamin Lewis, and @Supreme Leader Snoke raises a very salient point that is important to bear in mind: with a franchise of this scale, the films have to work both on the surface and in the details. As @jari13 noted, at some point these are made to be fun and the audience is participating to have a good time, ideally.

But that audience is massive. There are going to be fans with near encyclopedic knowledge of every single thing that ever happened with Star Wars. There are going to be a lot of fans with encyclopedic knowledge of the films and the original expanded universe, but none of the new books. There are going to be a lot of fans with near encyclopedic knowledge of the films, but very little else. There are going to be a lot of people that only have casual knowledge of the other movies. Realistically, on a tentpole film of this scale, the film needs to work for all of these groups as best it can (as counterpoint, it should be noted that there is a mountain of films that flopped because they tried to be everything to everybody, which isn't the same at making it work for most or all viewers)

It is possible for a film to have all the little details right and still be abysmally stupid on the surface... or appear pristine on the surface but is devoid of meaning and forgoes source material. Getting one part of it right doesn't mean the other side gets a pass. And for what its worth, I agree with @Supreme Leader Snoke about tie-ins from other sources: filmmakers' reliance on audience knowledge of non-film franchise media to sell key plot points is inadvisable at best and irresponsible at worst, depending on the project's target audience.

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Now to this specific point:

If surveyed, I believe that most fans would overwhelmingly say they want new Star Wars movies to focus on the creation of new stories and characters that compliment and expand the universe as opposed to the introduction of new information that redefines and re-contextualizes the original stories. In other words, the re-contextualizations are exactly what I think many fans are having problems with. They do understand what's going on beneath the surface - even if they aren't fully articulating it that way. In fact, one of my major gripes with the ST is that it renders various OT character development to be moot. In this sense, I think a lot of people are giving TROS of Skywalker a warmer reception because it is more its own story than something that "re-contextualizes" older materials.

Regardless of how we can explain things when looking at the details, these stories are still products of a real world with people working and business interests abounding. It is pretty evident that no arc was planned for this trilogy (and the filmmakers themselves have more or less said so, starting with JJ's comments back in 2015/2016). While we can look at TROS and in retrospect say "so that was the story arc," that's not because they set out for it to be the story arc; its because that's where it ended.

And yes, we can take Abrams at face value and say that they didn't do anything to upend TLJ in TROS. But there are several things that are intended to steer plot points away from TLJ, and there are multiple moments that are obviously intended to catch the attention of fans mad about TLJ and let them know that they have been heard. Aside from that, I would argue that its not so much that Abrams is "undoing" TLJ as it is he's ignoring it as much as possible. My guess is that JJ's process was to sketch out the trilogy that he would have made had he agreed to do it all to begin with and condensed his Ep. VIII and Ep. IX into this single movie, hence the pace and why there are two fairly distinct halves of the movie. Also why it feels so crammed into 2.5 hours. And with that in mind, I agree with this this wholeheartedly: