Thoughts and Opinions on TROS' Story

There is a lot about this post that I disagree with vehemently but won't try to rebuff in the interest of avoiding conflict, and so I will simply say that these films are what they are regardless of how individual audience members have responded to them, and there is great nuance to be found in them if one wishes to do so and that I believe would nullify many of the problems that people have with them.

 

Kylo would've died in TLJ if Luke was there and he wasn't-- most importantly he wasn't there to kill him. Hence " no one is ever really gone."

 

We also have think Ben just didn't sacrifice "alone". Of course the rise of Ben Solo Skywalker (the natural decision) would have been great too but the final decision (the risky one) was good too.
Leia was holding her spirit to save Rey through Ben's last breath (with Ben's decision to save her too). Remember mother and son disappeared at the same time.

 

This video randomly popped up in my recommendations.... note that it came out 2 years ago.

 

Again, claiming that people don't see the good in a film that you do only because they don't want to, is a very poor approach. It assumes peoples' motives, and honestly insults their intelligence.

You can't just keep saying 'there's greatness to this film you just can't see it" over and over and over.

Also, an equivalent of "the film is what it is," is a very poor defense.

A lot of people in this discussion (on all sides) are bringing valid positions with specifics to the table. You can't just throw them out with responses like these^.

 

@Benjamin Lewis Offering a respectful opinion on and analysis of why I think these films aren't being appreciated when they deserve to be and explaining just how much nuance and narrative cohesion is present in the films if people would look for it prompted a response that essentially amounts to "people don't want nuance in Star Wars and these movies shouldn't be analyzed", and so rather than create conflict by rebutting this notion, I chose to disengage from the debate and walk away while still stating my belief that there is a deeper conversation to be had about these films if people are willing to do so.

Nothing about what I said was an attack on anyone's opinions in any way.

 

Right? I'm wildly frustrated because I don't *hate* it. It just exists and I feel nothing about it. It's not good. It's not an abomination. It just exists.

 

No one said the films should not be analyzed. Instead, they offered their own analysis, which you disagreed with, and that's fine.

 

^ I think.you should re-read the post that I originally quoted.

Saying that if you polled most Star Wars fans you would find that they don't want Star Wars films to be recontextualized by subsequent stories is absolutely an argument against analyzing them.

 

Nothing worries me more than future Star Wars movies being made based on surveys of what fans want.

I don't think TRoS turned away from the ideas setup in TLJ any more than TLJ turned away from ideas setup in TFA. I enjoyed all three movies, but they do not go together very well. If I'm leveling just one criticism at the ST, it's that it should not have been rushed into theaters to hit release dates. It started with the TFA when they decided to press ahead without an overall plan for the trilogy, and it continued the whole way through.

 

I feel like at least some of TROS was a rehash of ROTJ just like TFA was a rehash of ANH.

• Rescue captured hero (Chewie) from bad guys
• Destroy techno thing (beacon in TROS, shield generator in ROTJ) so that bigger techno threat can be destroyed by spaceships.
• Bad guy sacrifices himself to save hero
• Hero builds new lightsaber
• Emperor tells hero that joining him is only way to save friends

 

These don't bother me too much (Except the emperor part). Those are the baked in Star Wars tropes that make it feel like Star Wars IMO. It's about being clever in how you use them

 

On the contrary, I'm merely stating my belief that both diehard fans and filmgoers at-large predominantly do not want to see Lucas' original stories be altered, or "re-contextualized" as you say, by newer media that he hasn't had a hand in. That has little to do with "an argument against analyzing them" ... in fact its my position that people's analysis is the cause of lukewarm and negative receptions.

Fans found meaning in those original stories and characters and I believe that meaning has to be preserved for fans. Why did we get mad at Lucas for changing random details and tinkering around from release to release? Because its like he didn't understand that he gave everyone something that they were already happy with: it doesn't need to be more perfect, or better, or whatever. Now with Disney, the franchise creator is no longer actively involved... but new media must utilize the original universe to springboard new characters and stories. New plot/character elements that re-contextualize those original components have the power to disrupt how the audience relates to the original stories and subsequently hinder their ability to connect to the new ones.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 24, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 24, 2019 ---

It may not have translated - but my point wasn't to "survey fans for the future" but to state that I believe most fans and filmgoers don't want new stories to change how they relate to the stories and characters of the original trilogy.

I believe we are very much on the same page about planning/scheduling, and as I noted previously in the thread: its absolutely inexcusable that the studio that's found so much success in the intricate planning of the MCU would let LFL proceed on a mere 3 films w/o a solidified plan.

 

^ Following your argument means that stories become inviolable, which is not how reality works.

 

Theres only one thing i care about after TROS, where was Baby Yoda?!?

 

I don't have the energy or desire to bother dissecting the film on an internet forum, so I'll just say this: for me, TROS was likely the greatest failure I have ever witnessed in cinema... especially given it was supposed to wrap up a 42-year old saga. Creatively bankrupt doesn't even begin to describe that mess for me, unfortunately.

My only hope for SW going forward is that RJ is given the greenlight for his own trilogy...

 

You know you can just hit reply instead of using this "^"?