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Too much Fan Service and not enough Artistry?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by AllHailVader, Dec 6, 2015.

  1. Solo

    Solo Rebel Official

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    Ergh.

    *leaves thread*
     
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  2. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    Why are we proposing Fan Service as antithetical to Artistry. As if there is never a time were something Fans want to see can ever by artistic. Or that in order to artistic it must upset fans.

    This seems a silly charge in a movie proportedly only showing Luke for a limited amount, kills Han and possibly never has them together.
     
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  3. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Rebel Official

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    IMHO, just reusing the TIE fighter design (the oldest TIE Variation by the way according to Rebels) and recycling an essentially and originally abandoned Joe Johnston X-Wing design has undeniable characteristics of derivative fan service, and apparently was even one of George Lucas criticism when he said that Star Wars isn't about "spaceships".

    Regarding those designs and from what we've see thus far, the PT objectively featured many new and innovative designs like the Naboo fighter or the Clone army dropship for example. I didn't like all these designs (especially a lot that showed up in RotS) but these designs were fresh and original.

    As one of my favorite posters here said so eloquently, Star Wars isn't just about X-Wings and lightsabers. And since "Wars don't make one great" (Yoda) I wonder how much spiritual ideas and concepts about the Force the new film or ST is actually going to explore.
     
  4. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    This entire franchise has been done for "Dan service, " even from the words of JJ & KK .
     
  5. AllHailVader

    AllHailVader Rebel General

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    We'll see.

    The only new thing I have seen so far are the new stormtrooper designs which look cool.

    But apart from that, unless someone can help me out, I am struggling to see what other new idea or concepts that they have.
     
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  6. KiraRey_KyloRen

    KiraRey_KyloRen Rebel General

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    There's only one thing that would please you, and this have nothing to do with Fan service

    You wanted the ST to be about Finn, that is the Fan service you were looking for, again once more your lack of Star Wars passion is showing.

    I bet one month of my salary that if John Boyega wasn't attached to this movie, you wouldn't even be here.
     
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  7. AllHailVader

    AllHailVader Rebel General

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    Woah...where did that come from?

    What would please me the most is an exciting Star Wars story that takes ELEMENTS from the original trilogy but goes into bold new directions, and does things that surprise me and I don't expect.

    Sue me...Finn is the most interesting character to me. It may have been Poe, but we've hardly seen anything of him. But okay, Finn excites me the most, does that mean he is the be-all and end-all of this? Come on man....
     
  8. Ree Yees

    Ree Yees Rebel Official

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    This would depend on how narrowly you define "new". But if you think the new Storntroopers are new, then you should also consider the following elements new to Star Wars:

    Kylo Ren. Rey. Finn. BB8. Poe Dameron. Snowy forest. Hux. Phasma. Kylo's ship. Flamethrowers. Those cyclopsy guards. Many of the new creatures seen in that VF photoshoot. A graveyard of starships. Leia's new hairdo. The broadsaber. The luggabeast. Rey's speeder. Rey climbing the interiors of a downed capital starship. The First Order troop transport. Maz Kanata. Riot pikes. Kanata's castle. Just off the top of my head.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 7, 2015, Original Post Date: Dec 7, 2015 ---
    Lucas may have said that it isn't about starships but he changes his mind about what it is all the time and can't be trusted. It's the adventures of Luke Skywalker. No wait it is about Anakin Skywalker. Han shot first. No wait...
    The films are collectively known as STAR WARS, and 4 out of 6 films so far have space battles..and since '77 Lucas has made himself stinking rich selling you guessed it action figures and starships!
     
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  9. AllHailVader

    AllHailVader Rebel General

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    Kylo Ren is in the same vein as Vader, complete with mask and deep voice.
    BB8 - check
    Poe - check....ish, but not seen enough of him to really say.
    Rey - basically a female Luke.
    And the other things you mentioned are not really major enough to be considered new ground
     
  10. Bosc

    Bosc Force Attuned

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    It's because you haven't seen the movie yet. :confused:
     
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  11. Old Biff from the Future

    Old Biff from the Future Dune Sea Hermit

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    we have seen six minutes of the film and there is Artistry for sure...
     
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  12. Ree Yees

    Ree Yees Rebel Official

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    And somehow the new Stormtrooper is not in the vein of the old Stormtroopers?
     
  13. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Rebel Official

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    "information vital to the survival of the ..." - check
     
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  14. AllHailVader

    AllHailVader Rebel General

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    Guys, this film looks GOOD, and very well made. On that front, it's a huge step forward.

    Just not a fan of all this pandering they seem they have to do. All I want to hear is what this film is about, and not about the great legacy of the franchise and what it means to people.

    When the lights go down in the cinema, all that talk won't mean nothing. It will be about how good the story is.
     
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  15. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    I don't think there is anything that can be said here. Its all emotional appeal. Somehow you think the Stormtroopers are new and fresh with a mild tweek in design but all these other elements are just fan service. Despite obvious differences many of them a much higher degree than the troopers.
     
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  16. Bluemilk

    Bluemilk I AM the Senate

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    Snoke!...he's the master of Kylo ...so clearly it's a rehash. There can't be anymore masters in Star Wars otherwise someone will claim it's a rehash. :p
     
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  17. Ree Yees

    Ree Yees Rebel Official

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    @AllHailVader
    I'm not saying that The Force Awakens will be an original movie - by all means, check out the "The problem with THE FORCE AWAKENS..." thread I myself made discussing, among other things, precisely this - but as Old Biff said more eloquently than I did, you do seem to take some elements for cool and others not when the elements themselves are similar in their design approach.

    ---but that's the thing, that they are taking perhaps too many "old" elements instead of finding new ways to output a Star Wars story, most easily identified by the way Jakku looks so much like Tatooine. Does the story really need a new master/apprentice relationship, which we've had for six films already? Must the story take place on a desert world to work? Must the opposing faction be in possession of a superweapon?

    In my opinion - without knowing the full story of course - the answer to these questions is a resounding "NO". A new Star Wars film can of course have a story that doesn't involve evil overlords and their apprentice, or a superweapon - in theory, the canvas was wide open after the finality of Return of the Jedi. In theory, The Force Awakens could open with Luke Skywalker being a Jedi master with a host of dedicated students; it could open with the funeral of Princess Leia; it could open with the return of the battle droids (shiver); it could open with Han Solo winking at the audience as he smugly says, "That's what Sheev said"; it could be a story about how the six children of Han and Leia rebuilt the galaxy and became the legendary six founders of a new galactic order dedicated to the preservation of mustard seeds; the trilogy could indeed be Lucas' vision of that moral grey zone area; it could tell the tale of how the Empire fragmented into a thousand smaller regimes led by ruthless Imperials that became known as warlords, with the remains of the Rebel Alliance trying to find a way to organize the galaxy back together; the sequels could be about whatever, basically. But it has to feel like, be like Star Wars I suppose :D

    What interests me is to learn about the reason behind the decisions taken, and why JJ/Kennedy/Kasdan/whoever felt that The Force Awakens as it ended up, was the best possible way forward.
     
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  18. Bluemilk

    Bluemilk I AM the Senate

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    We don't really know what Snoke and Kylo's relationship is. For all we know Snoke could be inside Kylo's head and his delusion.

    According to Kasdan there hasn't been anyone like Kylo in the SW universe. I really don't think it is similar to any of the previous films when it comes to a Master and Apprentice. The proof of that is there are the Knights of Ren.
     
  19. Schwarma

    Schwarma Clone Commander

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    I think the likely answer to this lies in that fact that the movie had a schedule to meet, as so many do these days (and is, for instance, why superhero movies are all so formulaic these days). It's likely less time was spent or organically crafting the story, especially if the Lucas treatments were dumped. It's a paint by numbers approach. They have all the basic elements from the OT and it's a case of recycling them into the new movie in a slightly different order and with a new coat of paint. Play it safe, play to the lowest common denominator in fan and audience circles, and you'll rake in the bucks. It's primarily a business driven approach.

    Disney isn't there to nurture the world in the same way Lucas did (whatever people think of the prequels, he still cared about it). They're there to make as much money as possible by giving people the Star Wars they think they want, in other words, familiar Star Wars. The spin off movies prove this even more than TFA does with the stories all being linked to OT characters and events, like the death star plans, Han Solo, Boba Fett and so on. Imagine something really creative like something set in the Old Republic era or in the distant future? A whole new sandbox to play in. That would certainly be interesting. Instead they want to give the middle aged man children of the seventies and eighties (of which admittedly I am one), more of what they had a child to feed that notaslgia hole (which is why the fanservice element does still come into the equation). Give them what they've wanted since they were kids, and what they thought they were getting with the prequels but didn't. When you think about it, it becomes all rather obvious.
     
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  20. It's a Trap

    It's a Trap Rebel Official

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    Disney plans to make Star Wars films for years and years to come, and in order for all of those films to be created, TFA has to be popular. They are playing it very safe and not taking many risks because they are laying the groundwork for future movies. I would be willing to bet that Episode VIII takes a much more risky and artistic turn.
     
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