What if the prequels were good?

I really don't knowhat films you are watching. The only movie that was very specifically designed for 10 years olds as the ultimate end was ANH. The next closest to that was TPM. The other save for ROTS were done with 10 year olds in mind certainly but not all the way through thematically and tonally. ROTS was more with 13 year olds in mind.

Shocking in what way? That people don't all think like you?

The ones who like the movies for 10 year olds?

You really need to learn a lot more about how movies are and were made.

Lucas' brilliant imagination never stopped and besides his genius he brought plenty of other geniuses on board for all 6 movies.

What are you talking about?

I suspect for you that will never happen. The magic never went away you just didn't recognize it when it was there all along.

 

I won't have it dictated to me whether I love and understand the original trilogy or not, I just didn't enjoy the prequels enough. I fully expect to enjoy The Force Awakens as Kathleen Kennedy is very protective of it, and most of JJ's previous films were more than entertaining to me. Into Darkness is a GREAT action/sci fi, and he did great getting performances out of those kids for Super 8.

It is a fact that George Lucas aimed virtually exclusively at 10 year olds with the prequels, it's also a fact that Lucas did not collaborate with others during the writing of The Phantom Menace, which led to many of its shortcomings.. but to be honest I feel that if Kasdan looked at the first draft of The Phantom Menace, he would have rejected Lucas' offer to help him write. Perhaps he brought some "geniuses" on board for the special effects though.

The prequels were aimed almost exclusively at children/pre-teens and A New Hope was not. A New Hope was a family film which leant more to the child demographic, but it was certainly not meant just for the them.. as time went on, Lucas' ideas changed because he realised that aiming at the kids = big profit from toy sales.

Though I love the original trilogy, I will say that Return Of The Jedi was the start of all of this.. but it still managed to entertain everyone.

In terms of QUALITY film-making/story-telling.. The damage was already done by the third act of Episode II, and the CGI/fan service got out of control to the point where it made the prequels look like B-movies.

They could have salvaged it after Episode I (which I feel is an entertaining enough film) but the writing is on the wall.. The prequels pale in comparison to the original trilogy.

Of course, this is all my opinion! But I will say to anyone who believes the prequels are BETTER than the original trilogy; you don't know cinema.

/end rant

 

Actually, this is wrong and its not my opinion its from 'The Empire of Dreams' Documentary on the 2004 OT DVD set. They specifically targeted the movie for teenagers (14-18 year olds) who were big Sci-Fi/Comic Book Fans, as they marketed heavily at Comic-Con. It makes sense because nobody knew kids would like Star Wars in 1977, hence why they didn't have any action figures ready for Christmas of 1977. The explosion of kids under the age of 10 happened after the movie was released, and it always gets thrown around now that it was intentionally made for them. Empire targeted the same group as Star Wars (teenagers) as Jedi was the first movie to really go after kids under the age of 10 years old. Hence why it was my favorite of the trilogy in 1983 as I was 10 years old at the time.

 

I think they are good, I'm sure most people enjoyed them when they first saw them at the cinema, for me they just lose their punch a bit after multiple viewings when the action no longer excites. Watching now in 2015 in 1080p the CGI looks cartoony, it's funny that visually EP1 has aged the best due to it's more organic look though. I enjoy Menace and I think 90% of Sith is as good as any of the OT films, I admit nowdays I struggle with Clones though, I haven't enjoyed it for a while but I loved it when it first came out. But it also has the most poorly shot lightsaber duel(s) in any film at the end, you can't bloody see anything! Anakin v Dooku might as well of happened off screen...

Like everyone I really wish Anakins character was thought out differently and was a genuinely heroic guy, not someone struggling to keep the darkness hidden, it felt like him fulfilling who he really is, it didn't feel like a tragic fall of a hero and it cheapens Anakins return in Jedi for me a bit as well. Jar Jar was obviously a bit of a brain fart, 2000-05 CGI was never going to look real and I wish the lightsabers had a bit more weight, less focus and a more distorted volatile beam like the OT. But I do think they were good films they were made for their first time viewing in theaters though. Not to be picked through on a 20" pc monitor 10 years later after your 20th viewing

 

I can only concur with two of his ideas:

1) Anakin should've been a young adult in Ep. 1 so that...
a) there would be cast continuity (the originals had Hamill, Ford and Fisher in all three which made them feel more cohesive and unified)
b) there wouldn't be the awkward age gap with Padme which seems to conveniently "disappear" in Episode 2.
c) you wouldn't have Jake Lloyd's excruciatingly painful performance adding to the already infantile tone of the film.

2) Anakin and Obi Wan should've been friends not constantly bickering 'frienemies' .

Other than that, his suggestions were actually far WORSE than what Lucas gave us!
Owen Lars as some geeky, Anakin-worshipping nerd? Give me Jar-Jar over THAT guy!
Obi Wan as the MAIN character? Terrible idea! The prequels were RIGHTLY Anakin's story!
An Obi-Wan-Padme-Anakin love triangle? Pathetic!

What this video actually demonstrates is that the Prequels could've been a lot, LOT worse!

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 17, 2015, Original Post Date: Jun 17, 2015 ---

^Agree... Generally, Menace comes in for the most criticism but Clones is the only instalment that really makes me grind my teeth!
Nothing more needs to be said about how painful the 'romance' scenes were or how infantile the droid factory scene was.
At least Episode 1 was aesthetically pleasing... Episode 2 is unquestionably the 'ugliest' film: Coruscant and Kamino are fine but Geonosis and it's indigenous inhabitants look awful. Naboo is constantly bathed in a sickly, golden light as though it were a holiday commercial for Lake Como and Seville. Even Tatooine looks bad in this film!

 

Prequels being good, in form of their lightsaber duels yes.

 

Totally agree with Ricky Spanish.At first I though that TPM was the worst beacause I didn't feel it was entertaining(I was about 9 when I first watched it).Later,after watching all the movies AOTC I though that it was very week.I still don't like TPM that much but at least there were a few things done OK.In AOTC I felt really bored in the Geonosis factory scene or let me put it this way:there was too much Padme-Anakin scenes.It's good they were there cause it showed us how it started.But the poor lines,more importantly:why the Jedi sent Anakin with Padme?I mean it's so obvious that he is in love with her.Can't the Jedi Council or at least Yoda guess that he has feelings?Anyway,it had the Clones introduced so we had at least that.That lightsaber battle thought.It wasn't really entertaining.
This is my opinion and I understand that some people will disagree.
I'm back to ruling the galaxy...I mean doing important Chancellor work!

 

Can you say that for sure though? How objective is film when being viewed as good or bad in the technical sense?

 

It's objective enough that some people like films very much that others can't stand.

I think this thread is a little silly. Not in its idea so much as in the way it's gone. That guy had some slightly interesting ideas, but really, I think the story of each of the Prrquels is almost completely fine. It's only the minor elements that I can understand being changed.

Honestly, I think this idea that people like us could completely rewrite a film and have it be better is a little.. Uninformed. Ignorant, is the "unaware" sense. Not that some of our ideas aren't good, but I think that the Prequels work better *without* having been seen/made in this "Original Trilogy lens" that so many PT bashers see it with.
I think things like Owen's opinion on what Anakin should have done with his life (not getting "involved", etc.) is inferred to mean they were full brothers who spent their whole lives together, when I think anybody who is simply aware of how a person grew up, and the decisions they made, could still have such opinions without being particularly close to them.
And the same point goes for other points of assumption from the OT regarding the PT. That people still won't let go of their own version of a story that, were it any other story, they wouldn't have put so much stock in their own theories and would have accepted that the canonical story *did* happen differently.

It is fun to speculate though, and I don't want to crush anybody's fun. But calling the Prequels 'objectively and inherrently poor films' betrays unhealthy obsession, and one that wouldn't exist if people just accepted that all six films are Star Wars, and aren't changing.

Just enjoy them! Even films as great as Lord of the Rings, and the Original Trilogy, could be picked up for their flaws and completely destroyed for a person. But we only choose to do so, and be that critical, when we are somehow offended that our imagination wasn't taken into account for another man's imagine universe.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 21, 2015, Original Post Date: Jul 21, 2015 ---

Back to my first point, about quality in films being subjective..

As an artist, an empath, a cinephile, and whatever else that I personally identify as, I enjoy films others may not. I see them for very different qualities than other people, and have a very particular and unique point of view. And everyone else has their own very particular, and valid, perspective.

Personally, I can enjoy very artistic, slow-paced, and deep films like THX-1138, 2001: A Space Odyssey, Forbidden Planet, and even Star Trek: The [Slow-]Motion Picture, lol.

These films are good to me, but I recgonize they may be dreadfully boring, poor quality, and void of any entertainment, educational, or philosophical merits to others.
But I see them as original, ground breaking, deep and well-thought out, or visually striking. I don't mean to say these are all my favorite films, or that I consider them all to be "greats", but I find them enjoyable, where others may find them unwatchable.

I enjoy the family and friendship aspects, and even the strange warning against false gods, of Star Trek V: The Final Frontier, but other people think the film is wholly terrible! ("What does 'God' need with a starship?")

The Prequels are like this for me.
I enjoy the foreshadowing, the slow rise to power of Palpatine, the introduction and evolution of characters we come to love down the road, and the original, creative, *and unexpected way* in which the Prequels played out. I like that the characters aren't exactly who I thought they were. They're imperfect, their memory seems to fail after 19 years (Obi-Wan and Owen Lars not knowing C-3P0), and they evolve differently than I thought they would.

And that's all okay. Because I realize now that there was a lot more to the story of Anakin Skywalker, and the Fall of the Republic and the Jedi, than what I thought I knew from the Original Trilogy. What would be the point, if it was all exactly as the OT made it seem to be? There has to be mystery and revelation.

 

I frankly enjoy the six films, and some how avoided film critics/forums when the prequels were in theatres; I guess I was really busy then. (Also saw OT films in theatre when I was a kid, so I have a pre-PT perspective too)...

This really resonates for me: there are so many intricacies between all six films, going from tragic outcomes to triumphant return, and I'd imagine I wouldn't have explored them if I absorbed the volume of negative fallout over these years, and just dismissed them. The fan edits are unremarkable in many ways.

Don't get me wrong, you should completely dislike what you fundamentally don't like.

Somehow, my missing these tear downs of the films, I didn't have anything to obfuscate the bigger contribution the six (and soon nine) films have to offer.

 

Prequels are good.

 

This is a fantastic post - does this poster still post here ?

 

Eh not sure, he kinda lost me at "or how infantile the droid factory scene was.
At least Episode 1 was aesthetically pleasing... Episode 2 is unquestionably the 'ugliest' film: Coruscant and Kamino are fine but Geonosis and it's indigenous inhabitants look awful. Naboo is constantly bathed in a sickly, golden light as though it were a holiday commercial for Lake Como and Seville. Even Tatooine looks bad in this film!".

Qui-Riv is kinda of a kook who still posts on TheForce.net - so, what's he saying here, that TPM was less childish than ANH? What?? lmao

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 19, 2016, Original Post Date: Dec 19, 2016 ---

Sorry if this has already been covered in this thread, but this guy's a bit confused here.

Generally, there are 2 ways of doing this:
1) rewrite them from scratch, based on the backstory dialogue from 4-6 - you'll end up with a plot that has almost no resemblance to the 1-3 the way they were made
2) try to mold them (or each individual movie) into a complete and flawless narrative while changing as little as possible

When applied to movies in general, 1) is questioning the basic concepts and ideas of the story and contemplating alternatives that might've made the better, while 2) is specifically about the craft constructing the narrative, and making it fulfill its own premises.

Obviously there's a continuous spectrum inbetween those two - as you get closer from 2) to 1), you become more cavalier about changing fundamental plot points rather than trying to change little things about their execution.


These Belated videos are obviously inbetween 1) and 2), but relatively close to 2) - the basic TPM outline remains, but significant plot points are noticeably altered.

So them being on this specific point in the continuum isn't the problem - the problem is that he THINKS he's doing 2), he says he's gonna pretend to be like a quality control studio guy who receives the script and sets out to keep what works, and throw out what doesn't (in a rather smug tone of voice, I might add);
when actually, he then goes on to throw out a bunch of plot points he doesn't like and replace them with something he prefers - i.e. moving away from 2).

If he's gonna be confused about his own premises he at least should drop those smug inflections of his

 

Fantastic post. I can tell you're intelligent, older than a lot of us, I think.

Ok, about the Prequel rewrite.....So I decided to really work on a project to rewrite the entire prequels, just like hundreds of other people. This guy in the video seemed to be the 'popular' prequel rewrite guy. So I checked it out and he did the same thing as most everybody who rewrites the prequels, he just changes execution. The problem I have is its unoriginal and still 'feels' like Lucas prequels. The thing is Dooku, Jango, Grevious, Jar Jar, Mace Windu - these are all boring unoriginal characters with no character arc. They are all just placed in the story to get Anakin in the suit one day for story purposes.

So even though I can not get over 20 people to read my work since I have absolutely no credibility as a writer , and most ppl consider fan fiction as garbage, which is mostly true - however there are crazy cases like the writer of 'The Martian' or '50 Shades' which hit mainstream. I'm not comparing myself to them, but one thing I always understood was film and psychology. So I decided to be like another jackass and write out the prequel stories, mostly as therapy too for myself. But the one thing I did is that I just erased everything that Lucas did. It was that simple, start from scratch.

I felt most prequel rewrites are people who just watch the prequel movies and change things around thinking that will solve everything. Well, its kind of boring that way. The idea that people are going to be reading your work and they will have to visualize your work and when they do, they are going to be imagining the current prequel stuff. I remember one Episode I rewrite kept every single character, kept the Phantom Menace title and all they did was combine Qui Gon and Obi Wan. It was boring. I can't get through most prequel rewrites because its just people changing stuff around.

What I did was researched how Lucas wrote the first trilogy. And in particular how he wrote the first movie. I really learned about how he used Kurosawa's film 'The Hidden Fortress' as a template. He also studied Joseph Campbell and was inspired by the 50's tv serial Flash Gordon. So I thought - perfect! I'll start there for my prequels. So I based my Episode I on Kurosawa's more famous film - The Seven Samurai. Star Wars is quite a bit of homages if you really look deep into it.

So I wrote out the three movies, put it out there, and people tore it up. And they were right, it did suck. So I kept rewritng. And putting it out there and getting criticized. Which I like negative feedback, I listen carefully to other people's opinions, because I have the freedom to rewrite my material, this is just a fun project. So I kept rewriting, rewriting, rewriting after more and more negative feedback. Finally, years later, I put my trilogy out there and people gave me compliments instead of insults. It was interesting thing that happened. That is when I realize that I should fail , fail, and fail until I succeed.

Put website online, can't get a lot of people to read it. So after some feedback, I shortened the summaries into 3-5 pages for people to check out and the longer full treatments are there if ppl dig my work and want to get into more detail. I focus on character arcs, character relationships. The biggest compliment I got was the relationship between Anakin & Palpatine in my Episode II. Someone described it as a 'twisted dark version of Luke & Yoda from Empire Strikes Back". I never wrote it like that, but its always interesting to hear ppl's opinions and feedback.

Anyway, so I put the website out there, no one reads the damn thing because the whole internet is filled with star wars fans creating their own star wars projects like a prequel rewrite...so whatever.... I wont even put the link in this post because I'm not trying to sell my stories to get ppl to read..... So I always wondered if I do have a gift for writing..... And its all subjective. I know that my prequels are different than others and the existing prequels. But I tried to get ppl to read it, but I figured I'll keep trying...Then I go see Rogue One. And the last Vader scene, Vader comes out and destroys the rebels with his lightsaber. Fans go crazy. Go home, read Rogue One online reviews - people love that Vader scene.....And that is how I know I am a good writer. I can stop asking people for feedback. Because I have an exact same scene, exact same length - quick & dark,, almost exact same movements, exact same spot in my Star Wars script. I literally envisioned it exactly the same way. So if anyone thinks I'm a bad writer, I'll just point to Rogue One and say well these multimillionare script writers are getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars and are coming up with the same ideas as me.

 

Nice videos!

 

What if Samuel L Jackson yelled at people and beat the crap out of them in the prequels? What if he was a quick tempered Sith who chose the dark side as the only alternative to the Jedi? What if his father was in the Jedi council? What if he was Morgan Freeman, the wisest Jedi, commanding even more respect than Yoda? THIS is what I wonder about the prequels lol

 

What if the Original Trliogy was actually good? What if the Sequel Trilogy was good (I'm trying not to laugh at this)?

All of these arguments about the Prequel Trilogy . . . is irrelevant bantha poodoo (and I don't mean poodoo) to me.

I have never claimed that the Prequel Trilogy was perfect. I have my own set of complaints about them, which I had pointed out in my movie reviews. But I'm still wondering why so many people are claiming that the Original Trilogy was perfect, when it had its own set of writing problems. Do people really blind themselves from the flaws of something, due to nostalgia? It would seem so.

 

*sees post title*

Are you threatening me, Master Jedi?

 

I personally enjoy the prequels. CGI isn't a bad thing, The light saber fights are great, Obi-Wan is great. The Battle of the fates is arguably the best lightsaber duel ever, (tied with the battle on mustafar) Darth Sidious's master plan is amazing, General Grievous and Count Dooku are great, and overall there just not that bad. Also if you consider rogue one a prequel that's even more reasons to like them. Not to mention it's filled with awesome memes. (Examples) Order 66, I am the senate, the droid attack on the wookies, Anakin hating sand, the high ground, Jar Jar, a fine addition, and much more.