Where are the plot holes?

I agree in the sense that it should have been addressed within the narrative. But since it seems that reasoning doesn’t count, we can sort that out logically.

Anyone they called wouldn’t likely have been a physical threat to the FO forces and helping them escape wouldn’t be an option on account of hyperspace tracking. They could have told an ally to meet them at Crait, but since it was supposed to be a secret escape, ships showing up there would have tipped their hand.

I suppose Holdo could have just asked ‘whoever’ to standby and come when called. But hey, maybe she did and the result was the same (no shows). That’s my take anyway.

 

Head-canon adopted ^_^ - thank you.

 

While there don't seem to be any major plot holes you're asking for (they really worked on this well enough I'd say), this movie relies on various plot devices, lucky timings and situations (sometimes timing of 3 separate events matches - what a luck) and something I'd call "time holes" way too much for my liking. Sure, you can say this can be found in pretty much any movie, but the difference between a well thought, written and executed story and not such one is how naturally the story feels to move forward, how easily and deeply does it suck you in, whether you can closely identify with some characters and become interested in them and how little does it feel to rely on those little "artificial helpers" that you can't avoid scratching your head over.

And while this may not be a problem for some, it definitely is for others. This is why some people even dare to call this movie a "mess" or so. I wouldn't go that far, but it was still very disturbing, jarring experience for me.
There are simply lots of smaller issues (I'd dare to call some of them plot holes even though you will surely disagree), many of them being already mentioned here and elsewhere, that make for an unpleasant result.

And it doesn't have to be only because the story didn't go the way they would wish. I for example went to most of the prequels completely unspoiled and without any expectations, TPM (easily the worst one for me) left me pretty much indifferent (didn't love it but didn't hate it either, I didn't complain about it anywhere but it if wouldn't exist I wouldn't mind). Similarly I went to the TFA and TLJ not expecting much and willing to be surprised. Yes TFA wasn't very innovative one but again it left me quite indifferent at least, I quite liked the visuals and was actually interested in learning more about some characters and events. TLJ on the other hand just didn't work for me at all (I didn't even feel being sucked into the story much) and when I left the cinema I felt pretty empty and sad about what I just saw and without much interest about what's going to happen next (TLJ actually feels quite like an ending of the story).
I started to poke fun at it in order to overcome those bad feelings and to take it from the better side, but somewhere inside I still feel sad about what they've done (how dumb and uninspiring the story and characters have become). It wasn't necessary to end up like this, but they don't seem to be able to do any better at the moment.

 

Though this franchise does have a built-in ‘out’ for luckiness: there’s no such thing. It was old Mr. Forcey McForcerson the whole time! They’ll always have that in their back pocket.

 

Rey's force skills are probably the biggest plot hole. To be clear, we're talking about skill and not raw power. It's been established in every movie, comic, video game, cartoon, novel, etc,etc that to use the force one needs to be trained and constant practice is required. It was a major plot point in TPM if Anakin would be trained or not and he had more raw power than any one had ever seen. Evan the fast and easy path of the dark side had a master/apprentice system. But with Rey, the force is more like getting bit by a radioactive spider. One mind meld with Kylo Ren and now she's a Jedi. A lot of fan's will say that the mind meld explains away this plot hole but it just makes a way bigger plot hole.

In all the history of the star wars universe, with Jedi and Sith masters and schools, decades of training from childhood, etc. None of that was required, they could have just downloaded all their skills like in the Matrix. Instead of making Luke do hand stands on Dagobah, Yoda could have just put his hand out and been like, "Boom! Force skills you have, get off my planet you will."

But, maybe it's just something Rey can do. OK, still a plot hole. One of the major conflicts in TLJ is "Will Luke Train Rey?" (spoilers: he won't). But why? She's already so skilled that she can knock a Jedi master on his ass in one on one combat and anything else she needs she could just download from his brain. Heck, she might have been able to download every thing Snoke knew as well for all we know. Sticking with my Matrix analogy, this is like if Neo spent half the second film looking for someone to teach him Kung-fu.

Ok, non-force related plot holes;

When the First Order first catches up to the Resistance fleet, Kylo and his two wing men take out the hanger deck and the bridge in just a couple of minutes. Why didn't the first order send more TIE's? Star destroyers have, like 75 TIEs apiece and they have a whole fleet of star destroyers. Given the amount of damage done by three TIEs in a short amount of time they could have crippled or destroyed the Resistance fleet in five minutes.

Also, the film just showed us an entire state-of-the-art dreadnought get taken out by one old bomber. No bombers in the FO fleet?

Moving right along...
Two big plot points in the film are: 1)The FO can track ships threw hyperspace. 2) The Resistance needs to get a signal out to their allies (they don't show, but we don't know that at this point in the film).
Both sides know that reinforcements could turn the tide. So we can surmise that the FO is jamming communications, or the Resistance doesn't have a transmitter big enough with them. I'm going to be generous and assume the latter because they send a signal to Maz, who might be closer than their allies.(not asking Maz to send the signal isn't a plot hole, but it is dumb).
Know what would be a great way to get a signal out? A small ship with a hyper-drive. So why doesn't the FO track Fin and Rose?
And speaking of Fin's luck with finding invisible ships, how come the FO can't see the stolen ship that FIn &co fly up to the FO flagship in.

After Fin &co are captured, why is BB-8 left to roam around the ship?

DJ get's a bunch of money for telling the FO about the stealth shuttles, but why do they pay him? They can see the shuttles. No, literally they can see the shuttles, they have line of sight. Snoke even makes Rey look out through a magnifying glass at them. Was no one looking at the Resistance fleet until DJ told them to?

And about those shuttles: no shields, no hyper-drive, but they're stealth and the Resistance has enough for the whole crew to use. Other than this one very specific situation, what the hell are those shuttles good for? Can't use them for covert operations, no FTL, you'd have to get a carrier ship to drop them off. Can't take troops in to combat, no shields. If they're for ferrying from ship to planet, why stealth? And why so many?

And speaking of stealth: is the planet invisible? The Resistance is traveling at sub-light speed straight for a planet. Can't the FO see it? Holdo's plan seems to assume that the FO won't notice the planet. The Resistance can't jump to light-speed because the FO will follow them and know were their super secret base is so the plan is to slowly drive there, getting picked off by the FO on the way, and lead them to your super secret base so that...uuuhm......HOLDO YOU'RE FIRED!

 

@Blue Harvest while I agree with most of what You wrote (esp. the whole space chase is really a big contest for who's dumber), as for Your last paragraph:

I believe the issue for Resistance is that if they make a hyperspace jump, they'll get somewhere far, but:
- will be immediately out of fuel
- and FO will quickly appear right behind them and will destroy them immediately

So they're basically trying to make up some time somehow... (and are hoping for some miracle to happen - more time, higher chances of that happening I'd say)
I'm not saying that the whole chase is an idea of genius, just trying to get something meaningful out of it.

 

No, her plan is to get to Crait unnoticed. The rebel base that was there was desolate and the transports, that the Resistance has, are equipped with cloaking devices, so no they cannot be noticed from the FO point of view.

 

I understand that her plan is to get to Crait unnoticed. I'm saying it couldn't work even within the logic of the movie. The transports were stealth but not invisible. If Rey could look out the window at them, so could any one else on the ship.

 

Because they had already noticed them. Their focus was on the main ship. If the transports can get off and far enough away before being noticed, the big ships will be out of attack range.

 

If they could see the transports (which we all seem to agree that they can) then they could see the transports launch from the resistance cruiser, right? Why wouldn't the FO be watching the cruiser they were chasing? Am I missing something here? (that's a legit question, only saw the film once)

 

If your focus is on a big cruiser, and it's all but shielding them from sight unless you maneuver to look for them....

Not necessarily. the distance is vast between the two even though it may not seem like it. We have to generally accept that things are done for the sake of film making (ie sounds in space, explosions/flames) and being able to physically see these things as far away as they are without aids is one of them.

The transports would be so small in comparison to the main ship that it wouldn't be difficult to not see them right away if you weren't directly looking.

Basically the same as slight of hand by a magician. It's not impossible to catch but if it's done well and you aren't looking for it....

 

Probably picked it up as he was walking to see Snoke's dead body on the throne.

 

I think the more simpler explanation would be range, they mention their allies are in the outer rim and that the base on crait has the necessary power required for the communication, perhaps Maz was simply closer so communication with her was easier.

"We need to find a new base.
One with enough power
to get a distress signal
to our allies
scattered in the Outer Rim."

"D'ACY: The mineral planet,
Crait.
An uncharted hideout from
the days of the Rebellion.
-That's a Rebel base?
-Abandoned,
but heavily armored
with enough power
to get a distress signal
to our allies
scattered in the Outer Rim."

 

Ok, I'll consede that it's not a plot hole then...
But Holdo's still fired!

 

If you're looking at an elephant, are you noticing the mouse running the other way?
Just how I'd look at it.

 

They weren’t headed for the planet. They were going to travel near it and keep going, bailing the shuttles along the way.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 2, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 2, 2018 ---

Well, no rationalization needed then. Seems it actually was covered within the story. And I guess Maz was too busy with union disputes, or whatever that was, to help send word.

 

Ahhh good, I had trouble with that one. Good catch. One can easily assume that Maz was not on the outer rim, so they could contact Maz but not their allies. And to contact their allies they would need a "powerful enough transmitter". Good.

Wow, we're really great at this sort of thing. One fan spots a potential weakness or possible plot hole, and another comes with a plausible explanation (like the bombs that don't fall on space one, where a fan here explained that there's gravity inside the ship, so the bombs fall and they keep "falling" while they are in space because of momentum and no attrition - brilliant, but so easily missed). In this specific case, a quick and simple "Maz is in range, let's see if she could help" would address this perfectly.

Sometimes I wonder if it wouldn't be a good idea to "hire" tons and tons of fans and do a pre-release with them so they could pin point possible little errors and omissions. They could do a contest and "hire" thousands of fans for this "beta-testing" to help iron out the details. They do this in games all the time, don't know why it can't be done with movies, as long as they find a way to contain plot leaks

 

Most studios do conduct test screenings and collect feedback. It’s usually random folks though and not vetted “fans”. It would be pretty hard for a film maker to address every little oddity that might come up though. No auteur wants to spend their time explaining their story instead of telling it.

Typically, if the average audience member doesn’t have a problem with it, then it’s not really a problem. Very few people care to scrutinize a film as much as the ‘enthusiasts’ do. Movies are made for everybody. Catering to the fine toothed combers crowd doesn’t really earn them much. Y'know?

 

I understand what you say, and I'm not suggesting it would be easy. The problem I see is that these "test screenings" to collect feedback may not be working as best as they could. All the people involved in the movie are too close at that point, so they don't count. I think getting some selected folk for test screenings from time to time would be an invaluable tool for the director, writer and editor. They could disregard the feedback, of course.

I'm a game developer. At some point, you simply lose sight of the minor flaws in your creation and need fresh eyes from time to time to point out all the glaring little flaws that are still present. I'm not suggesting story re-writes here, but just minor remarks that could do wonders for the product's end quality. This could translate into a sentence here and there that could explain things a little bit better. Everyone would win in the end I suppose.

 

It's usually how you end up spending 150 million on a film thinking it's going to be a huge hit and then it only makes 91 million domestic and doesn't even double up world wide.