Will Disney ruin Star Wars or will they make it better?

Lucas would sell out the company anyway, I think he made a smart decision

 

You really activated the Disney-bashing machine recently, Amanaman. Although a prequel-fan hating on TFA always feels pretty contradictory to me.

Fan service done right hurts noone. It didnt ruin the expreience to me (maybe the trench-run imitation was a bit much). The PT was also filled with fan service, but sadly from the bad type. Such as C3PO (a mass manufactured droid) beeing made by Anakin, R2D2 having all the gadgets (including a friggin jet engine!!!) you never see later in the OT. Or showing Boba Fett as a kid etc.

Ridiculous amount of eye candy, right. Please dont even start me talking about the eye candy in the PT, which were basically three movies made to show you how great the computers of ILM were at the time... In fact, TFA has a pretty blank and relatively small-scaled visual style (similar to ANH).

Todays fans ofc... Star Wars holiday special? Star Wars OT special editions? The incredible amount of merchandise the SW logo was slapped on during the PT?

If you think about the batton, it was much rather for story's sake, as it was supposed to show you Finn's first time with the lightsaber.

That is just pure nonsense... Do you realise who was the writer of TFA? Are you seriously suggesting that Lawrence Kasdan didnt pay attention to the writing?

Besides, contradictory writing like the Republic beeing 1000 years old in the PT vs ANH's 1000 generations, Padmé dying in childbirth vs Leia remebering her (and no, not through force wision), the jedi beeing relatively unknown, misterious warriors or Han not knowing the force and the jedi in ANH (despite he was a teenager during the clone wars), yet according to the prequels the jedi lived in the middle of the galaxy like celebrities and lead their wars Or the fact that
Obi-Wan never served Bail Organa during the clone wars in the PT (despite its one of the key informations in ANH) makes me wonder if Lucas was even paying attention to his own previous creation or didnt care at all, besides creating three movies with colorful CGI and making a blast load of money on merachdising.

The FO stormtroopers are not supposed to be better than the Empire soliders, it was clearly established in the movie (as Finn is a traitor). Kylo Ren even sugested they should use clone troopers. And working in sanitation dosent mean "cleaning toilets for life". Its a pretty common method in militaries to initiate or "bully" the rookies with low-jobs (sanitation beeing the number one btw).

 

Well it's funny that you accuse me of bashing TFA but then bash the PT but that's cool with me as it's all in good fun so let's debate and see if you did your homework!

I assume you are well aware that TFA had even more CGI in it than TPM right?


I'm guessing you didn't understand my point as I wasn't talking about merchandise but a bad movie. From the very start of the OT the SW logo has been on everything from drinks, candy and underwear. What I meant was that many fans don't care if they get a simple rehash like TFA as long as it has the SW logo on it.


I would let this slide if there had been at least one other Stormtrooper with this type of equipment seen somewhere. If you find one in the battle please let me know. That Stormtrooper was just conveniently there to fight Finn and nothing more. I do admit he was more awesome than Phasma who was just eye candy and wasted space and I really wish they had killed her instead of that awesome trooper.


So just because Lawrence Kasdan was there I'm supposed to ingnore the bad writing? Tell me, how can a loving and caring alien like Maz Kanata who cares about the well being of the galaxy and who wants to join the heros in the good fight be a nasty pirate who has a castle filled of lowlifes, scum, pirates and gansters? Do you find it good writing to see such a good hearted person be someone who would hang around the likes of Zero, Hondo, Sebulba or Mandalorians? Was it good writing to have Leia and Chewie pass by one another like if they didn't exist but then have Leia hug Rey who she didn't even know? Was it good writing letting us see how awful Unkar Plutt treated Rey and how they seemed like strangers to one another just to let us know that he was her adoptive father in another scene?


It was clearly established in the movie? You mean you didn't see how simple Stormtroopers were no trained to take down Jedi? But sure don't take my word for it but lets see what wookiepedia says:

They were better trained, they were more ruthless and had more diversity of tactics and even better equipment than Imperial Stormtroopers. If that was not meant to show us that FO troopers were better then I really don't know what that was as it can't get better than a Stormtrooper trained to take on Jedi.

If you want to defend TFA sure be my guest but at least justify the bad things it has and don't just defend it by saying it's better than the PT. If JJ had given us something fresh and original than sure, I can compare movies to see if TFA was indeed better than any of the prequels but a mere rehash of an already excelent movie? I don't think so. TESB is considered the cream of the cream by many SW fans. So let me ask, if episode 8 were a mear rehash of Empire, do you really think it's a valid opinion if I say that said movie is better than ROTJ or ANH? I don't think so. Taking every single idea from an already successful movie and blatantly coping it for a movie while saying it's a freash new take on the SW saga is really low and sad. I can accept anyone's opinion who will debate that Rogue One may be better than and PT movie or even any OT movie as Gareth Edwards did a proper job of giving us a new original tale and not a simple copy/paste.

 

I'm certain that Lawrence Kasdan was paying attention to the writing. Mind you, I believe this didn't help the plot to "The Force Awakens".

As far as I'm concerned, Disney started off badly with "The Force Awakens". I hope that their handling of the franchise will improve with "Rogue One" and "Episode VIII".

 

Its not me who wanders around every thread to bash the PT. Its a mere rebuttal on my side to show the hypocrisy of a PT fan.

I think the question isnt the quantitiy of CGI used in a movie, but rather how they use it. Although I agree that TPM is an exception. Visually it mostly holds up even today. Thankfully in the late 90s CGI technology wasnt ready yet, so Lucas couldn't make the entire movie in a studio (like ROTS). As far as Im concerned a Star Wars movie should look like something like TPM or TFA (aside from the OT ofc). I believe the real sets and locations were part of why the OT was so succesful. It gave the movies a soul, a unique touch. Modern Star Wars shouldn't be something like Jupiter Ascending (a borad fakeness). And thankfully Disney realised this.

In that case your point was simply illogical. How should the fans know if its a bad movie without watching it first? And I certainly believe that the people who liked it didnt just like it because it was a rehash. They liked it because it was an entertaining movie with likeable characters. Sure, there are probably people who liked it because it was a soft remake of ANH, but I think those are the minority.

Thats not what you said. I was merely pointing out that your conjecture about Kasdan not caring about the writing was pure kakadookie. You can make a bad movie with very much care about the subject matter (see: Zack Snyder and Batman v Superman).

Im not so sure that wookiepedia is canon. I think the fact that Finn betrayed the FO clearly implies that they are inferior to imperial soliders. And besides, how can regular soliders be better than those who were "designed", cloned and literally programed to fight without questioning anything?

I dont think any of those would be true. Im pretty sure the Empire, who controlled the enitre galaxy (thus had full economical and logistical control) had better and more resources, and were much better trained and equipped (aside from the fact that their military consisted of cloned supersoliders).

I certainly would, but you rarely talk about the movie itself. You usually rather tend to make vague statements mostly about the creators and/or the quality of the movie without grounding it with reasons.

JJ dosent make original stuff, I agree (although his tv work was rather original). But in his defence, barely any orignality is left in Hollywood in general. Please name me original blockbusters from the last decade which isnt a Nolan movie.

Honestly, I really doubt ESB can even be rehashed in the same way as ANH. ANH is a pretty straightforward hero-journey which was done countless time before and after ANH.

I certainly agree. It seems they've put a lot more thought into R1 (at least on the design front).

Perhaps... Though I enjoyed the movie, im really curious what Michael Arndt's version would've been like. Sadly Kasdan and JJ pretty much had to rush the writing process. JJ wanted to make the movie so much, but writing a timeless masterpiece isnt usually done in a couple of weeks. I have high hopes towards ep VIII though. It seems they really dont want to rush it this time.

 

Illogical would be the way you try to make your points while twisting my words. Did I ever say fans accused the movie without seeing it? Second, you can't say that everyone liked TFA. The only reason why this movie made so much money was because fans were eager to get a new SW movie. TPM with it's Jar Jar and CGI goodness did the very same thing and it went on to be one of the highest grossing movies of all time and yet many fans claim to hate it.


Here once again you are not debating but trying to push in your opinion while ignoring mine. I answer directly to what you say yet you conveniently ignore my words because you can't argue my points. Why didn't you answer me on the illogical writing examples I gave you?


The only reason I used wookiepedia as a further argument is because you seem to want to remain blind to what we all saw onscreen. Imperial Stormtroopers were not good for close combat. They were mowed down by bears with sticks:

and we are going to see them get busted by a blind man with yet another stick:

and yet you insist on wanting to make them seem weaker than guys who are trained to take down Jedi.

then you say:

I assume you are just debating using what you think is true and not facts right? Even the complete visual companion of TFA clearly states that FO trooper are better than Imperial ones. If you are truly a TFA fan then you should pick it up.

On your other post sayings after that I do agree with you. You also have to understand that you can't ignore certain facts just because you like TFA my friend and want to defend it. Admitting certain flaws in a movie does not diminish your love for it. I myself love the prequels but I won't blindly defend them as they also have tons of flaws some of which I have even made posts about here in the Cantina. Jar Jar, the way they made Jedi look like losers, the way Yoda seemed like a quitter, the incredibly stupid way they made Kit Fisto and the other council members die, Padme's death because of a broken heart, Anakin's Sand and so much more are just some of the things that I think sucked yes I being a PT fan said it, SUCKED about the prequels. This however doesn't make my love for them diminish in any way and you should do the same with TFA.

 

One thing is for sure: once Disney took over, the action figures haven't been as quality made as the ones that came out during the prequel trilogy era.

 

The PT sucked because its main characters - especially the "heroes" were flawed and made mistakes? I think I now understand why so many fans tend to bash it. How sad.


Despite "Rogue One", I cannot honestly say that Disney will make STAR WARS better. Along with Lucasfilm, it now seemed to be stuck in some "Original Trilogy/rebellion" mindset. I'll hold my verdict until they try something really new.

 

I'm grateful for Disney. I'm pretty sure Lucas wouldn't have done any new 'proper' theatrical movies (I worry that the Clone Wars cartoon with the baby Hutt would have been the new model, which was a bit underwhelming.) Now we're getting a major film a year, which is awesome! I didn't love TFA but begrudgingly accept why they took the creative decisions they did and very much look forward to seeing what the future holds.

The anthology films REALLY excite me however. I thought Rogue One was excellent and the tone of the film and brave ending removed any lingering doubts I had regarding the Disney corp. I'm a very happy fan at the moment and feel like my favourite franchise has had a wonderful, much needed shot in the arm. As I write this I'm drinking coffee from my Stormtrooper mug with my beautiful copy of the Art of Rogue One next to me. Without the Disney buyout I doubt I'd have had such wonderful items.

However, It's going to be a fine balancing act between Star Wars being an amazing event, and over saturation, so Disney and the Lucasfilm story group need to be very careful. Realistically, with a Marvel-model, sooner or later we're probably going to get a film that under performs, I pity the cast and crew of that one!

 

Well, two movies were released so far and they are excelents. So until now Disney are making SW much better than the "dark times" of the prequels.