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Will Kylo get his "revenge" on Rey?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Boss Vos, Oct 28, 2017.

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Will Kylo get his revenge on Rey in TLJ?

  1. Yes, he will beat Rey

    9 vote(s)
    52.9%
  2. Yes, but Luke will come and slash him after

    3 vote(s)
    17.6%
  3. No, Rey will beat him again

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. No, they won't fight each other

    4 vote(s)
    23.5%
  5. No, Kylo will die

    1 vote(s)
    5.9%
  1. Boss Vos

    Boss Vos Rebel Official

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    Some official tidbits have given us a breakdown of what drives Kylo in TLJ. His motivation is described as "wanting revenge on Rey after his humiliating defeat on Starkiller Base".

    No matter how you felt about Rey beating Kylo in TFA, it's not controversial to admit that it was an unusual way of introducing your main villain in a three-part story. In the traditional hero's journey, the hero has to lose against the villain the first time before winning the second time. In other words, the hero has to experience setbacks in order to become an interesting character to root for. This is classic storytelling, and the reason why it's classic storytelling is because it works and has been working for thousands of years.

    The question remains: Will Kylo get his revenge on Rey though? It's understandable that this trilogy might try to blend the dark with the light and make us question the traditional makeup of good and evil (which is being hinted in TLJ). But if you look at TFA, there is absolutely nothing that indicates this besides Kylo's "pull to the light". The First Order is portrayed as 100 % evil, and the Resistance is portrayed as 100 % good.

    So what TLJ might do is to make Kylo come back to the light and therefore he and Rey don't need to fight. But this presents a focal problem to Rey: She is supposed to be the hero, and if Kylo becomes a hero as well - what's so interesting about Rey? She becomes utterly boring since she doesn't have a journey - she beats the villain in the first movie, then brings him back to the light in the second, and in the third they defeat Snoke together? What's Rey's setback? Without any setback, how do expect to make a character interesting? Without any setbacks whatsoever, why should we root for this character?

    Info from the Japanese website hinted that Snoke might not be completely satisfied with Kylo's powers in TFA. This could indicate that Kylo will indeed feel the pull to the light even more. But if this is wrong, and he does continue to be a part of the dark side - will he get his revenge on Rey? Will Kylo beat Rey in TLJ? Will Rey get her very first setback?
     
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  2. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    We shall see. We shall see.
     
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  3. Bluemilk

    Bluemilk I AM the Senate

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    It may be classic storytelling but it's also predictable storytelling. No one has to tell it the same way it would get quite boring...and predictable. I could name many movies that does not use the same old structure and works just fine.

    Without seeing the rest of the episodes how do you know she doesn't have setbacks? Just because it isn't going the predictable boring way doesn't mean it isn't going to be interesting. Rian has stated already long ago he threw everything at these characters and that includes Rey. I'm sure she will get run through the ringer and get her a$$ kicked whether by Kylo or Snoke who knows.

    Funny but Luke beats the villains in the first movie too. Out flies and out forces Vader to blow up the death star. Vader was the best pilot, yet gets beat by his son.
     
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  4. Jedi MD

    Jedi MD Jedi Commander

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    Rey will be facing challenges in TLJ. They just may not be by a defeat to Kylo. Luke’s current state will likely challenge Rey. Snoke seems to be challenging Rey. Kylo not by defeating her, but by offering her information may cause a challenge for Rey. Rey has a very limited worldview due to her isolation on Jakku. That is also bound to be challenged as well.
     
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  5. Boss Vos

    Boss Vos Rebel Official

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    I like your perspective. Predictable storytelling is boring, I agree, but there are other ways to make a story unpredictable. All to their own, of course, but I think classic, mythological storytelling has always been an integral part of Star Wars. I'm not saying it's not taking this approach in other areas, but when it comes to the villain I think the villain should win at least once in order to make him intimidating... Unless the ST is trying to challenge our view of what a villain is. But at the same time, we are being shown two sides that are 100 % good and 100 % evil, respectively.

    And I'm fully aware of the fact that we don't know how TLJ and IX will pan out for Rey. That's why it's an interesting discussion.

    I'm not sure if I can agree about the Luke-thing, though. Luke had lots of help from Wedge and the other pilots, not to mention how Obi-Wan guided him through the Force. Also, Han was the one who forced Vader out of orbit.
     
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  6. Bendak Starkiller

    Bendak Starkiller Force Sensitive

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    Rey will tell Kylo he must be stopped, and Kylo will say this.

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. TomLunner

    TomLunner Rebelscum

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    I'll guess it will kinda be like in ESB where Rey is going to lose the fight, but learn from it and defeat kylo in EP9.
     
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  8. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    I think Rey may turn. Watch the trailer again. That arm that is picking up Ren's saber is a little "slim". Rey is now a Knight of Ren! :eek:

    And Kylo is not reaching out 2 Rey, he's back with(luke)!!!!

    Dun, dun dun!
     
  9. Flyboy

    Flyboy Jedi Commander

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    Revenge doesn't have to come in the form of defeating her in battle, that's certainly one way... but not the only way.

    Anything Kylo does that impacts The Resistance in a negative way, any harm done to people she knows, that can all classify as revenge. It may not be affecting Rey physically, but psychologically it can cause a great deal of pain.

    Even Rey turning to the dark side, if Kylo can get Rey to bend to him, if he can manipulate her and her thoughts and morals, that may be the sweetest revenge of all.

    Plus, is Kylo more upset that he lost the physical battle with Rey? Or is he more upset that twice, while interrogating her and during the final battle on Starkiller Base she bested him mentally and psychologically. Showing that even though untrained (presumably), Rey is at least equal possibly better when it comes to harnessing the Force.

    It's difficult. Kylo is said to be ashamed and embarrassed so revenge seems obvious, but on the other hand... that's just it, revenge is so obvious. Naturally, almost automatically it's what we think the character wants and where the story is destined to go. Even with the "official tidbits", I'm not sure how much stock you can put in them because all they're doing is pointing out the obvious. And we've been constantly... and I mean constantly reminded by the actors/actresses that this story is anything but obvious.

    But I'll stop with the speculation and fake deep philosophy and answer your question straightforward. Yes, Kylo does get some form of revenge on Rey. No prediction for how though.
     
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  10. Boss Vos

    Boss Vos Rebel Official

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    Doing harm to people that she know and care about was technically already done in TFA, when he killed Han Solo and slashed Finn. So in some way, you could argue that Rey beating Kylo in TFA was actually Rey's revenge. So does it mean they're even now? Obviously not.

    Like you said, Kylo is ashamed of what happened... I think he is 100 % focused on revenge, but it remains to be seen what happens at the end of the film.

    JJ said himself that Kylo Ren represents "the angry young white man" in today's society. In JJ's words, Kylo is actually very weak and is hiding behind a mask. The allegory of this is obviously a person hiding behind a computer screen. But even though Kylo is JJ's creation, The Last Jedi is Rian Johnson's creation and he may not agree with everything JJ did in TFA. I actually really despise JJ's intended symbolism behind Kylo's character, so I hope Rian is going to change all that and make Kylo less weak and more powerful.
     
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  11. Flyboy

    Flyboy Jedi Commander

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    I considered all of that when making my post and almost ended up deleting it because I figured it would render everything I said moot, but then I realized that even though Kylo has already done damage to those close to Rey, the motive behind it wasn't to get revenge on her. You're right, I think he is 100% focused on revenge, at least at the start of the movie. But I'd still argue that doesn't mean it has to come in the form of defeating Rey in a battle. She has a sense of responsibility now, she's right in the thick of things, not just a girl along for a ride with the intentions of going back to Jakku when it's over. Because of that responsibility, I think she'll feel personal guilt for whatever Kylo does.

    It's not a perfect analogy but I'd liken it to Luke knowing Vader is just using Han and Leia as bait to get Luke to come to him.
     
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  12. Maximus

    Maximus Reel 2 Dialogue 2

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    Kylo may fight Rey.. and will probably beat her, but it won't be revenge.

    he isn't after revenge in my opinion, and i don't think he felt 'beaten' on Starkiller at the end of TFA.

    He will want to find her... he wants to talk to her again.. he is fascinated by her. she confuses him.. he respects her in a way that he doesn't understand yet.
     
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  13. Boss Vos

    Boss Vos Rebel Official

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    He did. The official tidbits specifically describe him as feeling "humiliated" after his defeat.

    That's not to say he isn't fascinated by Rey, because he most certainly is.
     
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  14. Maximus

    Maximus Reel 2 Dialogue 2

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    to feel beaten, he would have had to have been trying to beat Rey.. and he was certainly not trying to do that.

    to use a car racing term... Kylo was a 'box of bits' at the end of TFA.

    between his personal fascination in Rey, the turmoil going on between his ears because of killing his father.. and Snoke's request for Rey to be brought before him (not killed) - he was most certainly not trying to beat her.

    What Rey did was impressive.. but it wasn't a fight. pretty sure we'll see what that kid is truly capable of in December.
     
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  15. Supreme Leader

    Supreme Leader Rebel Commander

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    i don't think the supposed misdirect in the trailer is a misdirect, he's gonna take her to snoke.
     
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