SPECULATION State of the Empire

You don't need the Empire to have more Star Wars movies.

 

No you don't. But:
1- the Empire makes for a great villain.
2- the fact that we see a bunch of remnant Empire tech in the trailer suggests that the Empire is involved. So part of my continued push is simply working with what I have seen (it is possible that the tech is in the hands of a new faction though that seems unlikely).
3- You can also have Batman stories without the Joker but man those are the fun ones.
4- Given that there is clearly Empire legacy technology in place and that they are shooting at the Falcon even if you called them the Galactic Illuminati or the Webbles they would still pretty much feel like the Empire they are too similar.
5- Throughout the EU almost every villain has been either a place holder for the Empire or a version of the Sith. The Old Republic its the Sith Empire, Exar Kun became Sith, killed Jedi, started an Empire. PT established the Empire in question. ST showed the Empire in action and the death of its leader. I have not read much of the EU but I know there was the Fel Empire which was a kinder gentler empire which made an uneasy peace with the New Republic before it was taken over by Sith and became pretty much the Empire we know and love to hate.

 

I somewhat agree, somewhat disagree. Firstly, I feel that we need to stick largely with the OT as it was, not what Lucas added in the end. While there are many additions and changes that I feel made it better, there are some that weren't necessary or detrimental. Take, for instance, the scene of Jabba added in ANH. It tends to cheapen the power Jabba supposedly had, relegating him to be essentially pushed around by Solo... yes, at the promise of more money, but still.

Further still, it needs to be argued why certain things like that were left out. In the Jabba scene, it was technology at the time. For the "Galaxy celebrating" scene (really just a handful of planets seen), it was simply because Lucas decided well after-the-fact that he needed to hammer this idea of defeat home, and end speculation. It does not seem we can take that as being the end-all-be-all.

 

Personally, I don't think all the speculation about the Empire still existing after ROTJ would invalidate the Rebel's victory. Fairy tales don't always last forever or have a happy ending and history has a tendency to repeat itself. Even more so when it involves politics and conflicts.

Yes, the Rebels celebrated at the end of ROTJ and deservedly so. The Emperor is dead & they had just destroyed his super weapon (again). However, we already know from ANH that the Senate had been dissolved and that the regional governors directly controlled their respective territories. Even with the death of the Emperor, the star systems under the Empire would still be controlled by these regional governors. The Rebels would still have a lot of work to do after their celebrations.

And this is where J.J & co. have 30 years of back story to set the stage for TFA. What are the possible scenarios that occurred after ROTJ? For me the Empire managed to maintain control of Coruscant and the surrounding systems. Some systems might decide to break away. The Rebels could have wrested control of some planets especially those furthest away from Coruscant (i.e Kamino?) and start battling their way inward.

 

Hi there,
So, we keep hearing more and more that the climate in TFA for the Republic/Rebels and the Empire is something similar to a Cold War-esque one. If we do a bit of digging into the new cannon material the Lucasfilm Story Group and their respective collaborative writers are giving us, you find that a lot of the world building going on is showing us just how complex a government the Empire is. In both of the novels, A New Dawn and Tarkin, we are shown how much of a priority it is for the Emperor to efficiently dig out all the resources of the galaxy and put them in his grasp.

Where am I going with this?

At the end of Return of the Jedi, we see the Emperor and Darth Vader dead, the best of the Empire's fleet and commanders destroyed, and a representation of where many resources and soldiers were poured into, the Death Star 2, obliterated. For all we knew, and thanks to the Special Editions, the Empire was overthrown and the next day Luke, Leia, and Han would be headed to Coruscant to restart the Republic. Happily ever after and then came the now-defunct, extended universe. No more Stormtroopers, no more Empire. Yay!

Then we all saw The Force Awakens trailer, along with the concept art descriptions of Imperial vehicles from Viral and Jason Ward, and we know the Empire is very much alive after the opening crawl of The Force Awakens trailer fades and the camera pans down. How did this happen? We were lead to believe the good guys won and that was that.

I believe we are going to continue to see the new cannon material establish how "dug in" the Empire is into the commodities of the galaxy. What I'm trying to say is, the Emperor has amassed a fortune in commodities and the galaxy's wealth by tossing it in the treasure troves of the Empire. It's not like once the second Death Star was destroyed somebody just transferred all those resources to Han Solo's PayPal account. What was left of the Empire would still be sitting on a pile of gold and resources the Rebellion had no access to.

Not only did the Emperor died, his vice-president Darth Vader, and most of the top Imperial brass were taken out. Someone low on the chain, I'm guessing in the bureaucratic wings of the Imperial government, was there to make sure those Imperial assets were looked after. I'm thinking someone got very rich and very powerful overnight once the Emperor's hold on that fortune was relinquished.

A plot point of The Force Awakens that has not been speculated on as much as who has what lightsaber are the political ramifications of the end of Return of the Jedi, and where the Rebel Alliance is. My theory is that the Empire lost many systems and significant strength after ROTJ, but has managed to endure over the past 35 years. The Rebellion/Republic has been slowly chipping away at the Empire over the years, and when the TFA opens, the Empire is in the midst of its death throes.

The Cold War comparison is what interests me, because if you make a comparison using the former Soviet Union (and I really don't mean to offend our Russian friends here on this board) as the Empire and the United States as the Republic; the Soviet Union was not wiped off the map as a world power. It was certainly weekend by the fall of communism, and it took years to recover into modern day Russia. The Soviet Union was not destroyed, it was transformed, and all its leaders were still there. The KGB is still the KGB, Stormtroopers are still stormtroopers. I think we might see the same thing with the Empire. It won't be the Empire as we knew it in the opening, but a struggling, galactic power that is trying to hold what it has together.

That is where I think Kylo Ren, Adam Driver's character fits in. We have seen in the Indie Revolver concept art there is a hybrid TIE Fighter/shuttlecraft, whose landing platform is flanked by two Imperial Royal Guards. I believe that Kylo Ren is the leader of the Empire, and that his family were the ones who took control of the wealth and resources the Emperor controlled. We are seeing Kylo Ren in a desperate time, where he will do anything to restore the former glory of the Empire his family has been struggling to protect. Perhaps none of his family ever accepted the fact that the Force touched their bloodline, out of fear the Emperor would have them killed or disappeared (like we have seen in Rebels). Kylo is the first of the family to embrace the Force, and the power that calls to him promises to guide him and the Empire to it's rightful place ruling the galaxy.

I don't believe this power has been guiding Kylo Ren on a Sith artifact scavenger hunt, though. I believe that Kylo Ren's contact with the power has been infrequent over the years he has become self-aware of his Force proclivities, and that seeking out these relics might help his contact with the Dark Side be more frequent.

We are meeting Kylo Ren at a very desperate point in his life. He is fighting to restore the government he believes in, his family name, and to discover his true place in the galaxy. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

 

So Kylo Ren believes that the Empire will only be strong again with a Sith at the helm? That makes sense, and I've suggested there might be a faction that believe that for some time. Question is, is Ren striving to be that Sith or to awaken one?....

 

Both

 

Shaggy's too young to be the leader of The Empire IMHO. You don't just hand the keys over to Richie Rich simply because he's well to do and has a bit of force sensitivity.

I do however buy that he's connected to an influential family, perhaps a Dooku relative as there was a rumor about such a connection. But definitely not in charge... yet. My three cents.

 

I've been thinking something similar but with multiple factions that splintered out of the old Empire after the death of the Emperor and Vader left a power vacuum. In any government, even a dictatorship, there is a system in place for just about any possibility. Perhaps there were multiple coups to wrest control of the Empire and it's resources from different regional governors, all of which have their own following and for the last 30 years all but 3 or 4 of the factions have disbanded or have been assimilated by the more powerful contingents. Maybe a force sensitive/ Sith (Kylo Ren) is trying to bring the groups together and lead them as the new Emperor.

 

You're post has some great stuff, especially the Cold War comparison.
The one thing I kind of disagree with is your idea that Kylo is part of the Empire. It sounds good, but I dunno...I feel like the Empire will play second fiddle in this new series. Remember, the film is called The Force Awakens—it will be about the Force, as opposed to other films that are about Jedi, Sith, the Empire, etc.
Which is why I think that Kylo will be independent of the Empire; I think that the Empire will serve as a secondary villain, providing a backdrop to a new, darker plot line and universe, one which will center on the Force itself and its story.

Just my thoughts.

 

I like this @Kyle

It's solid stuff and it makes a lot of sense. I wish I could have clicked great post AND original but alas...

When you answered "both" the to the question of if he was going to to try to become a Sith or awaken one...what did you mean?

I just wonder if you feel there is a way to awaken a Sith in an actual physical way or maybe just spirit/ghostly way

 

Thank you!

I believe the he would take either/or, but gathering from the title of the film, something from the dark side has awoken and is reaching out to him. Whether that puts him on a trajectory to becoming a Sith Lord or some other kind of dark side force user is something I don't think we will get an answer to until December. Interesting to note there is no 'Darth' in his name though.

 

Great post!

You made some really awesome points that I think have a lot of merit. The "Cold War" concept would make sense with Star Wars lining up with real life politics that Lucas seemed to love to put in his stories/themes. The galaxy being split into different sections of one being a "Republic" and the other a "Empire", is intriguing.

I think Kylo Ren is mos def being played by Driver, but not only that...I think he's still a Solo kid. I've thought that for a long time now. I also think he will be living a double life of sorts. Think of people you grew up with that were raised under a certain religion or expectation of what school to go to etc...and later those same people rebuked that thing they were raised around in. It's a common theme where I think Kylo Ren will fall in. He will be raised under the Republic and resents his parents for something (could be a whole different topic) and secretly starts seeking out those Sith artifacts that we keep hearing about. Obviously, I think Vader's helmet is one of those. He will be obsessed with the lineage he came from. For better or for worse the SIth are a part of it. Right? (Another reason I think the main baddie could be Plagueis. His connection in the birth of his Grandfather..but that's for another thread.)

Kylo Ren, IMO will already be heavy in the Dark Side of the Force when we meet him. In fact, I think he will be our introduction to the Emperor/Ancient Sith Lord character, but I think the audience will meet it the same time Kylo does. By the end of the film, Kylo will defect and go against what he was raised in with both the Force and Politics and be the face of the Empire that it sorely needed...which you beautifully put.

 

Nice! I had not even considered the rebell against his religion and upbringing part of the equation.

 

I think the initial aftermath of the fall of the emperor would have resulted in a military Coupe. Eventually a new Emperor would come to power after rallying a few generals to his banner (like warlords in tribal nations in the middle east), and seize power after crushing opposition. Now, I would compare the Empire today to Iran and here's why. Iran has a puppet leader, like Ahamdinejad (former president) but the real leader of Iran is the Ayatollah. I think the new Empire has the same set up. There's gonna be a puppet Emperor who answers to the Sith Lord. This Sith Lord understands the lessons of Palpatine.. Stay in the shadow and have the rebels focus on his puppets while he completes his agenda (insert rumors here) rather than being in the public light.

 

Apologies, moderators. Thank you for merging these threads. I didn't see this earlier one

 

The funny thing is...The original Marvel run might be closer to what the state of galaxy is than we realized. Supports the "Cold War" idea too.

 

Nice thread bro.

The Empire was a massive thing tho. Just because bad news #1 and #2 were taken down, there surely was a GFFA equivalent to a "Secretary of State" somewhere that would jump up to the podium.

I do think that showing the entire galaxy partying at the end of ROTJ (and partying hardcore) lends most mouth breathers to think 'dude, this thing....it's over,' I just thing realistically that some measure of a plan was put in place and will most likely be explained in the opening crawl. This crawl might last 15 or 20 minutes BTW so get yo popcorn ready homie.

Gawd does that NOT read like the TPM crawl?

If I have to sit through another lecture on governmental policy and trade route disruption I'm gon' go all......................

Well I'll be chuffed. That is what I shall be.

DBH

DBH

 

Very much agreed. Getting over a cold right now so I will sit in solidarity silence with my mouth breathing brethren, but your point is well made.

Just watch as the content we are handed over sets more and more stage for the Empire we will meet in TFA. I really hope Lucasfilm gives us something akin to the Countdown comics that accompanied the Star Trek films. Those comics lead us in to the opening moments of each of the last two Star Trek films. The stories of each series had little to do with each film, but they did provide great context. Maybe Star Wars is already doing that....

A short series detailing the rise of the Ren family post ROTJ, ending with a young Kylo coming into power and discovering either Anakin/Luke's lightsaber or the lightsaber-excalibur in his family's care in the last frame of the comic.