SPOILER "Aftermath: Empire's End" By Chuck Wendig (Discussion)

Agree with the sentiment, any story can be great if handled well.

It's the blurring of the lines I get uncomfortable with, I like everything on a straight, linear passage - alternate timelines seems too far out, even for this GFFA.

And agree again, it could be used to shift alot of old dung...

 

i'm not a fan of too many time travel stories and to be honest, i really don't think they will do that here.
at best we'll just get more future/past events (which is not something we have seen in Star Wars before, though Rogue One did have that one flashback).
but if Rey and Ren are mucking around in each other's thoughts--if that "bond" turns out to be a doorway to their emotional landscapes and memories, then i can see where things might get weird time-wise without it needing to be time-travel per se.

 

Have not read the book, but can someone be the Harloff to my Mark Ellis and tell me if the mysterious admiral dude is still kicking at the end?

 

if you mean Gallius Rax, no, he's toast. hahahaha

 

Aww I liked his backstory (I read Lifedebt) he was a better Thrawn than cartoon Thrawn right now. Any mention of Luke?

 

if it's any consolation, he went out well. and all of his backstory in Life Debt really came into play in a big big way. you should check it out. it was worth it.
Luke may or may not have showed up for Ben's birth. that's all we get ~ hahahaha

 

Really liked the whole trilogy. Great job. Lots of interesting arcs left open and the battle of Jakku was great. Although I would have liked Luke in there somewhere. But he is obviously off limits. I'm a smuggler. Not a snuggler

 

Interesting to note that while in the unknown regions, the remnants of the empire mined Kybers to power new weaprons.

http://www.starwars.com/databank/finalizer

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 3, 2017, Original Post Date: Mar 3, 2017 ---

 

I may need to go back and reread the piece about the planet Jakku and the well into its center but I believe that it was Palpatine, or the Sith before him, and not the Anchorites that bored into the planet core. Your theory on "poisoning the well" is interesting one but I don't think there is a need for a beacon since the Emperor intended to go to whoever or whatever called to him from Wild Space and that is why the Eclipse was sent beyond the known galaxy. Additionally, I think Rax was not conducting Darth Sidious' orders out of respect anymore but out of his own ambition. It is my thought that he murdered Tashu not as part of the plan but because he no longer wanted to deal with any mysticism.

It is true . . . From a certain point of view,

PongSolo

 

Another interesting note:

"The first order arose from the dark side" - Lor San Tekka

Meaning - if the outer regions are where the dark side resides, then the first order came and arose from the outer regions. Arose from the dark side of the "galaxy".

 

SkywalkerGirl: Why can't we take the author (and Luke Skywalker) at their word when they say that all people have an internal conflict between the dark and the light? We have never had a canon story that describes what a force sensitive mother feels as she carries a force sensitive child. Even Jedi struggle with emotions that can lead to the Dark Side and much of their training is learning to control those impulses. Just an observation from a neophyte to The Cantina.

It is all true . . . From a certain point of view,

PongSolo

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 4, 2017, Original Post Date: Mar 4, 2017 ---

Choose Light: Great observation and at the same time, Sloane has her revenge and finds it extremely fulfilling.

It is true . . . From a certain point of view,

PongSolo

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 4, 2017 ---

FN: Unless Snoke is the embodiment of the Dark Side, I don't think he is calling to Ben yet. Palpatine and Snoke (if it is him in Wild Space) found each other through years of searching the Dark Side. I think Ben's reactions in the womb and Leia's sensitivity to them are a result of the dichotomous struggle that all humans have with good and evil.

It is all true . . . From a certain point of view,

PongSolo

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 4, 2017 ---

Choose Light: I doubt that a quote as important as "From a certain point of view" was coincidentally used by Obi-Wan Kenobi in "Return of the Jedi" and in this verse from the "Journal of the Whills" .

What I think we are seeing with the use of this interlude on Christophsis, the stories of Ashoka Tano after she left the Jedi Order, The Father on Mortis (The Clone Wars), and The Bendu (Star Wars Rebels) is the foundations of the Gray or middle ground of the Force. There was already a lot of speculation in the last few years about Gray Jedi being introduced into canon but the Christophsis interlude specifically refers to the Light, the Dark, and the Gray. What is interesting to me are the discussions about tapping into both sides of the Force which is apparently something that Kylo Ren can do.

If you recall, the Jedi prophecy (as we know it) is believed to refer to someone who would bring balance to the Force. Qui Gon Jinn believed Anakin to be this person and The Father on Mortis also thought Anakin was the person to replace him on Mortis and keep balance between his two children. What if this responsibility now falls to Luke, or Rey.

It is true . . . From a certain point of view,

Pong Solo

 

Interesting theory. How do you think that the Jedi discussion of balance within the Force is resolved without both the Dark Side and the Light Side in a galaxy?

One possible theory is as Luke explained to Leia, it is normal for living creatures to be of the Light with flashes of darkness (Empire's End) or Gray. The Jedi had to harness the Light side in an effort to defend against beings that succumbed to their Dark Side wholly.

It is true . . . From a certain point of view,

PongSolo

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 4, 2017, Original Post Date: Mar 4, 2017 ---

Theory Regarding Finn's Origins

Since TFA came out, there are many theories regarding Finn's parentage and I would like to discuss one that I found only one reference to this evening when I looked to see how original this idea is: Finn is the child of or a male clone of Grand Admiral Rae Sloane.

By most estimations, Sloane is in her 40s during the Battle of Endor (4ABY), this would place her just over 70 years old during TFA. Why isn't she running the First Order? Why aren't there any references to her in the novelization of TFA? Perhaps she and any other high-ranking officers of the old Galactic Empire (Rae Sloane, Brendol Hux, Thrawn?) are disposed of by Snoke shortly after their arrival in Wild Space. After all, Gallius Rax did say, that children would be important to the Empire's future. Maybe Rax didn't mean only as Stormtroopers. Armitage Hux is already running The First Order's military during TFA and he would be in his early 40s. So, maybe the decision was made to eliminate any vestigages of the old but because Sloane was so brilliant and strong, the decision was made for her to have a child (most likely through IVF because she is a lesbian) or they developed a male clone of Sloane to ultimately become the leader of the military forces. If you read Star Wars: Before the Awakening the book says, "He was, as far as the training cadre and his peers were concerned, one of the best stormtroopers anyone had ever seen. He was everything their instructors wanted—loyal, dutiful, brave, smart, and strong. Whatever the test, whatever the evaluation, FN-2187 consistently scored in the top 1 percent." from "Star Wars: Before the Awakening" by Lucasfilm Press, Phil Noto

Some of you are probably already saying to yourself, "But Finn worked in sanitation! Scrubbing toilets is hardly the job for the offspring of a Grand Admiral." Well, I thought a little about this and I think there are two primary explanations: 1) Finn is still a rookie with one real mission under his belt when they go to Jakku. He was on sanitation duty at Starkiller Base because he was working his way up the ranks like everyone else. and 2) Finn's origins may not be known to everyone within the First Order.

One slight modification to this theory is that Sloane was never the same after the blaster shot to the side she got from Norra Wexley in Aftermath: Life's Debt. While in Wild Space she could have decided to have a child. This child, after his mother died, was conscripted as FN-2187.

I like this theory because it isn't the standard "Finn is a child of Luke Skywalker and a black Mara Jade or Finn is a child of Lando Calrissian" explanation that I usually find out there. It also explains something that keeps bothering me: Why does the First Order in general and Phasma specifically care so much about getting Finn back?

Steel strengthens steel, your comments and thoughts are encouraged. However:

It is true . . . From a Certain Point of View,

PongSolo

 

I probably need to go back and read the whole thing again. Yeah, I knew the Anchorites didn't drill the well, I just wasn't sure whether this was something the ancient Sith or whoever set up the computers had done and Palpatine just took it over. Palpatine did hate that nice blue life energy (were there kyber crystals in there too, or was that just cute blue "life mist" I wonder?) but I think now that the Sith artifacts were just to give more power/energy for destabilizing the planet's core. Of course, ditching creepy crazy Tashu didn't hurt--kill two birds with one stone, as it were.

 

I think Rae Sloane is about 50ish, and she even laments something about never having had a family and probably too late for that. Maybe she is younger, I don't know, I guess it's possible. I imagine children came from all over the place that the First Order took, and who knows what is in wild space, and way does he have to be anybody? It's possible part of the awakening is what caused Finn to break his training, will of the Force, or just something meant to be, like Chewie and Han being in the Cantina, and frankly, Chewie just happening to be showing up at least two other times where Jedi were involved in the history of the galaxy prior to Mos Eisley cantina (thanks recon!) or anything else that was in the right place at the right time.

As for Snoke. I don't know that he is really that powerful at all, we haven't actually seen anything, except his manipulation. Of course, it was a while before we saw things from Palpy face, too. Lightening coming out of his fingers, etc. He was able to convince or get people on his side, but you know who else could do that without using any power, charisma or what have you. We see throughout canon Leia doing that to get people to her cause, and even though she is Force Sensitive, she wasn't using the Force to do it, like a lot of political types. I am thinking something out there sensed this kid (Ben) being strong in the Force by his presence, and possibly remotely, without ever knowing who he was even, they didn't have to know, or maybe they did and used it to their advantage. Anakin got pulled to Mortis, which I am sure is one of those places you really couldn't find if you were looking for it. They knew who he was and what he was when they did it in the Clone Wars cartoon. Where ever Sloane and co went was somewhere they knew, or someone knew, how to get to. Maybe whatever Snoke is, or came from did the same to Palps, or was part of that. Palp being able to sense something out there and maybe it was him or he is a rep for that entity or person or whatever. And he two was sensed him and targeted him from the beginning. The Emperor seemed good at what he did, we can't take that away from him, but there may have been some help out there as well. Snoke is a toilet monster, but for some reason, he relishes in RenBen's Light and Dark mix storm whatever he has going on in him, and the fact that he is fighting the light (which is supposed to be the hard thing to do, the darkside being more seductive) fascinates me.

 

All good discussion. You are correct, Finn doesn't have to be anyone but I continue to question why the First Order in general and Phasma specifically is so interested in Finn. Just because he is a good trooper, that does not align with the type of human conditioning that the Hux men were performing. Alternatively, perhaps Finn is running and Phasma wants him back because the programming would make him susceptible to reassimilation quickly. Once part of the First Order again, Finn would be very dangerous to the Resistance with his newfound knowledge.

It is true . . . From a certain point of view,

PongSolo

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 4, 2017, Original Post Date: Mar 4, 2017 ---

LadyMusashi,
Thank you for the backup. I knew I read somewhere that Sloane was in her forties or I deduced it from something I read.

It is true . . . From a certain point of view,

PongSolo

 

I kept wondering from things she said. And thinking that her assistant was like a daughter. I know she was mentioned in canon prior to Yavin as well.

 

I think the theory that Finn is the offspring of Sloane only has legs because of the color of their skin. I think he's simply a kid who was torn from his parents at young age.

Hux is in this mid 30s. He's 5 during Empire's End.

As far as reconciling balance, I think balance is a fool's errand. Finding balance won't ever happen because there always must be conflict. The only way to find balance is destroying both light and dark.

The major theme of Star Wars is in the search for harmony. Harmony is different in the eye of the beholder. For the Jedi, harmony is the end of the dark side. For the Sith the reverse. And for the Force harmony is balance between light and dark. You could call it grey, sure. But can any Force wielder be truly grey? I'd argue that Luke himself was perhaps grey because he treaded both sides. But, the idea of grey is something that I don't think is possible on a galactic scale. For every Bendu, there are 1000s of Force users that sit on one end of the spectrum.

This is why I believe that for the Dark Side to exist, it needs the Light Side to balance it. Every time the Light gets too passive or arrogant, the Dark needs to weaken the Light. Every time the Dark gets too aggressive and emotional, the Light needs to weaken the Dark. If you play this idea out on a galactic scale, you get massive planetary system conflict. On an intergalactic scale, you get two galaxies in conflict. Thus the eternal conflict within the Force translates itself into carnage and war. Thus it is much easier for someone to be grey and have balance within themselves than it is for it to happen on galactic scale or even if you were say Luke, trying to pass grey teachings to a new school of Jedi.

Remember...Yoda told Luke to pass on what Luke learned...not pass on the teachings of the Jedi.