SPOILER Ahsoka - Part 7, Dreams & Madness

correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t there a little issue brought up earlier that the defense council was barring Hera without Leia present?

 

She had a few adventures with the Ghost crew in Rebels, so I'm sure she was aware of him. Don't remember if they ever "met" face-to-face.

 

I don’t think there needs to be a stated reason why Hera didn’t just request Leia’s support and protection right from the beginning. You would expect main characters to exhaust their own authority first (She kept remarking “I’m a general.”) before trying to get help from someone with more pull.

The Skywalkers sending droids as messengers is an established trope. As is things like Kings or Queens sending messages and pardons at the last minute to save the hero from punishment.

I’m sure Leia is listening but has to tread carefully. She doesn’t necessarily have autonomy and we are told that she was not even invited to the committee. Meaning there’s internal obstruction and a power struggle. If Hera had just asked Leia’s blessing immediately then the show would not have been able to convey the struggles that these characters have with the bureaucracy. We saw it in Mando season 3. Now we’re seeing it goes all the way to the top.

Systems are flawed. It was the same in the Empire, as seen in Andor.

 

We know for a fact Hera asked for approval first, didn’t get it, then went anyways. That’s what the inquest was about.

I don’t think you’re quite getting what I’m saying. It’s not that these things are inexplicable. It’s that they’re unexplained, but have no reason to be.

The story could have been that Hera DID try to get Leia’s support first, but was turned down because she wasn’t yet willing to take that risk. But when push came to shove, she showed where her true investment was. That’s explanation and character and story – altogether.

The story could have been that Leia couldn’t attend the inquest because she was lending aid to a world that was still rebuilding after the Empire devastated it. That’s explanation and character and story – altogether.

It’s not that I need my hand held. It’s that I see simple story opportunities for character moments that aren’t being taken for reasons I don’t understand.

I made the exact same point earlier. I understand the utility of the scene. But I don’t think the way it was done did the best job at accomplishing that.

 

I enjoyed it quite a bit. To the tune of about 8.5/10.

My only real issue is that the Baylan/Shin split up wasn't properly set up in my opinion. They needed to show her pushing for a place in the re-booted Empire and/or some friction between them at least.
It just felt a bit out of the blue.

The other issue is not so much related to the show but to the broader story, the OT heroes simply must be recast.
Trying to tiptoe around Leia is complete hash and galaxy plus spanning threats can't be handwaived by a prime Luke either.

The hero generals Calrissian and Solo being out of pocket is goofy too.

Everybody needs to get over it. This anti the show must go on is making nonsense. Rolling Threepio out there without so much of a hologram was silly and it seems likely to hit again with Baylan too.

Star Wars First. That is where my sentiment is and this episode just spotlighted it in my heart and mind. These characters must be recast.

 

I think the best thing to do is ask Carrie's daughter to stand in for Leia, maybe they can do some CGI stunt for a young version of Leia, similar to what they did for Luke in TBOFB. Has LFL bought all rights to use Leia, I'm not too sure?

 

Yes I know. She expected to get the committee's approval. Then went to rescue Ahsoka on her own authority as a general.

I know what you're saying. I just don't agree that Hera's decision (if it was a decision) not to go to Leia directly needs to explicated.

But those are not the story. I think it's safe to say at this point that Leia is not appearing in this show so the development of her character is not a factor in it. And the story isn't being tailored to Leia's character. She is just an off-screen Senator that Hera has the support of.

It seems that you want the scene to accomplish things that the show and the story within has no real need for. The scenes clearly appear to be designed to illustrate the main character's frustrations with bureaucracy, and how there's obstruction and compromise at the higher levels of the New Republic. The show has no use for illustrating that Leia is busy on rebuilding missions (which would mean she wasn't on the defence council and therefore had no say in Hera's mission) or that she is hesitant to help Hera for. The show then has to explain why she isn't quick to support Hera and then what it is that changes her mind.

The show does only what it needs to do.

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Why? They had up to six feature films already. Why is their direct, visible participation in this show essential? I don't get it.

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I think it would be better, less expensive and poses less risk of polarising the fans and general audience if everyone just came to terms with the fact that Carrie is gone and that, at least for the moment, the participation of the OT heroes is and should be limited to scarce. There may come a time when a recasting of certain parts can facilitate new stories of the OT heroes' exploits. But it's less than a decade since Carrie's passing. I don't see the need for such haste.

 

I don’t have strong feelings about this episode like I did the last. It was a fun episode but it didn’t really seem to move the plot forward a bunch. It was basically Thrawn wasting Ahsoka/Sabine/Ezra’s time. But the visuals were good and the battles were entertaining.

If there were 2 or 3 episodes left, it would have been totally fine. But since there is only 1 left I can’t imagine how they’re going to give a satisfying end to Thrawn, explaining what Baylan is up to, resolving what Baylan is up to, getting the heroes back to their GFFA, reuniting with her (and please PLEASE with Zeb too) and in some way giving a big I TOLD YOU SO to the senators.

My fear is we’re going to be left with some pretty large cliff hangers.

 

Control your fear, or let it control you.

 

I don't get what is the actual problem with recasting.
Recasting is inherent to filmmaking. Dumbledore was recasted (due to the passing of the first actor who played him, Richard Harris) from the third movie in the Harry Potter saga. James Bond was played by 8 different actors in 25 movies.
What were the consequences on the movies ?
None if I'm not mistaken.

So I'm wondering... what would be the problem to recast Leia, Lando, Luke.... ? Apart some moaners that would complain their childhood has been ruined (once more) ?
Because in the other hand, as @Too Gon Onbourbon said, it would be goofy to still hear about General Organa, General Solo, General Calrissian, General Skywalker.... and never see them anymore.

I'm thus one with @Too Gon Onbourbon 's Force :

Absolutely.

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It's UNFAIR !!!!!

 

No. She had no authority and she knew she didn’t. That was the point. She exhausted all her legitimate avenues and made a conscious decision to subvert them.

And I respect that. I’m explaining why I feel its absence is a detriment to the storytelling.

The Hera character is supposed to ardently believe that the fate of the whole galaxy is at stake here. That, if Thrawn returns, it will mean the end of everything she’s fought and sacrificed for her entire life. Billions of lives are in jeopardy. There should be no doubt that she’s utilizing every resource at her disposal. She shouldn’t be leaving any stone unturned. Her attitude communicates the severity of the situation.

If you introduce the possibility that she didn’t bother to pursue the support of a very VERY obvious ally, then that diminishes the urgency of the circumstance and lowers the stakes all around. All that needs to be done is to address it. If Leia is totally willing to help now, then why wasn’t she helping before? There’s story there that can only amplify what’s happening in the narrative.

Hera could have gotten the support of any offscreen senator. It was a conscious decision to have it be Leia, because the character has a vested interest in this particular story element. This is foreshadowing. Leia, twenty years later, parts with the New Republic to form the Resistance precisely because it’s unwilling to take the First Order (an aggressive imperial remnant) seriously. The groundwork for where we get to in the ST is being laid right here.

The scene highlights ONE senator’s vehement desire to deny the possibility of a looming danger. It isn’t about red tape and the ineffectual nature of the institution. It’s establishment of what will ultimately be the New Republic’s destruction. What happens in that room is the building blocks of its failure. And Leia is integral to where that thread leads.

It was an example of what providing the meagerest of reasons for her absence could have accomplished without much effort. You could have established, with a single sentence, that Leia is out affecting positive change in the galaxy as a member of the New Republic. That the promise of the Rebel Alliance didn’t just immediately descend into abject impotence. They actually are doing some good for the people somewhere. It’s a believable excuse that only serves to amplify the story.

Again, only a proof of concept. So little gets you so much and costs you nothing.

First, none of us have any idea what the hell the “defense council” actually is at this point. And, shocker, senators don’t generally just do one thing. A U.S. senator could be a member of a dozen different ‘councils’ or ‘panels’ or ‘committees’ in service to their constituents. Doing one thing doesn’t preclude you from also doing another.

Regardless, all that really establishes is that it’s EXTRA weird that Leia wasn’t party to that inquest.

Many shows don’t necessarily do what they need to do. That’s why many shows aren’t very good.

 

I'm curious how this season ends because Thrawn being this huge threat, that's going to start a huge war upon his return, is going to be a difficult thing to shoehorn into the canon timeline. Part of the reason the First Order was able to rise is that the New Republic didn't think there was a threat. That doesn't really make sense if Thrawn returns and starts a war.

The other issue is we have all these force users floating about and what happens to them all? Ezra and Sabine would be rather large figures in the New Republic. She created the rebellion logo and he was part of huge battle on Lothal. It's difficult to imagine them not being part of the Resistance.

 

I think it’s fun that we’ve gotten passed the “Where were they during the OT?” and are moving on to “Where were they during the ST?”.

 

hmm... So I saw a silly post elsewhere on Beyonce's internet that some people are theorizing that Baylan will become Snoke (ugh).

Which, is obviously silly. But that begs the question... is what he senses the Sith Eternal? Could he be sensing Palpatine all this time, and laying the groundwork for the Final Order, while Thrawn founds the First Order?

 

In a different galaxy though?

 

Could explain how they managed to grow so fast.