Battle in the Throne Room

hahahaha ~but haven't we learned that you can't just make stuff up to explain things. XD

 

"srg, Why didn't Maul keep pushing Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan off the ledge? Why didn't Obi-Wan and Anakin just try to push each other into lava instead of fighting? Why didn't Vader just choke Luke? I think we just have to accept stuff like this and simply assume:


You do realize that all of those guys mentioned are force sensitive, the guards are not.

 

You can, but it has to be a good explanation. Bad ones are just... well... bad

 

for those saying him using force, power would have made the scene less epic need only watch Darth Vader in rogue one. Plus he could have made the guard knight of ren or force sensitive or even force resistant like Jabba or Watto. Or we could have had more guard so that he could still have the same fight but at the same times use his force power on some of them. But having Kylo not use his power even once was really strange.

 

Well that does kill ReyLo

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 15, 2018, Original Post Date: Apr 15, 2018 ---

For those saying he should have used it against actual skilled guards not random redshirts who are destined to die anyways....

 

Star Wars has a long, infamous history of nameless/faceless goons being no threat whatsoever to Jedi/Sith/Force users, and on occasion, they've been ridiculed for it... especially when it comes to battle droids and them being sliced through easier than soft butter. Finally we get some nameless/faceless goons who can actually provide some intrigue and suspense to a scene and people find a negative because they were too much of a threat to the Force users.

I don't know, I guess if that's what you wanna go with, go ahead... but it just seems a bit silly to me.

 

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 15, 2018, Original Post Date: Apr 15, 2018 ---

And they didn't attack one at a time standing in a circle! They attacked in synchronized patterns separating the two opponents and working as a unit!

 

Hey, it's not me! It's just how it is

LOL what?

Let's have this clip as a reference (set it to slowest speed):

REY'S SIDE:

1:40 - at least two guards on both edges of the screen just standing far away and swinging their weapons - what for?
1:44 - focus on this guard muppet attacking Rey - he attacks her, recoils, then waste time whirling just to miss Rey completely (he aimed totally ABOVE her head) and then he just swirled back from her.
1:49 - no attack is actually aimed at Rey. They all swing their weapons, create the illusion of attaking her, but no one actually does it.
1:53 - three guards attaking her simultaneously - but in the same way so she can block them all together - hardly a "synchronized pattern" or "working as a unit".
1:57 - the guard with whip is politely swinging it while Rey is occupied - he then attacks Rey's legs and, of course, misses.
1:59 - elite guard died because he turned his back to the opponent.
2:13 - what's this guy doing there? Just waiting kneeling for his fellow guardian to die so he could face Rey alone?
2:55 - he can kick, but he's too elite to just stab her with the second knife.
3:20 - as someone pointed out - guard politely loses (drops? ) his second knife because stabbing in the back is not elite at all. Moreover - he also forgets he has a second hand! He could grab her hair, push her head against the blade etc - but there's no such thing, because she's the hero after all.

KYLO'S SIDE:

1:48 - the best defense against elite guard - ducking. Duck, and the elite guardian is going to miss terribly.
2:28 - these two guys clearly run away from Kylo in whirling fashion so he could finish off the third one undisturbed.
2:49 - the guy with whip is clearly not even aiming at Kylo, he swings it far above him.

I watched it right now dozen times and it's clear it's still mostly (mostly, but not always) "politely attacking one by one", just much better concealed by choreographers than in other movies. There's a lot of guys running and swirling so it's tougher to notice it, but it is still there. Probably because in reality two guys would stand no chance against eight "elite" guards. So in order for Kylo and Rey to win they had to apply the classic "attack usually one by one" trope too. When guards attack really simultaneously - they usually do it in the same manner/direction so Rey or Kylo can block them all easily or fail to actually be any threat - one guard attacks and is blocked while the other attacks simultaneously but... misses.

But don't get me wrong - I think it's still well made, visually beautiful and I have no issues with points mentioned above. It's just not that good as some people tend to believe because it sill has a lot of pointless moves, fake attacks and dumb decisions by "elite guards".

 

To activate their weapons and get ready for the fight. Kinda similar to all the previous lightsaber battles...

*cough*

Similar to TPM, were Maul and Obi-Wan aren't aiming for their enemies' body but the lightsabers.

I could easily go on with your list, but I don't want to because you're just going to disapprove it anyway.

Welcome to the world of movies where fights are choreographed to make fun.

 

Nope. They just don't want to join the attack, waiting for their turn. Besides - this guy on the far left - does he really need to "activate his weapon" by making a full 360 degrees turn? Can't he just stand and turn it on? Pointless move, nothing else. So criticized in other SW duels, but here it's "nah, nothing".

And? I'm not saying PT duels were perfect and I admited they had a lot of pointless moves and fake attacks, but so do ST duels! They are not as great and flawless as some people like to believe. It's ok to love something, but letting be blinded by love is... a bad move.

Exactly, I'm perfectly aware of that and wasn't trying to argue with it. It was justa response to this:

Because... they do attack one at a time and are not working as a unit. Someone here let his love for that scene blind him.

 

Can y'all just agree to disagree? If a person doesn't like something I don't think you're going to convince them otherwise. For me it's the best scene in Star Wars history. If someone didn't like it, that's a shame for them. I don't think many people are nitpicking the final fight in Three Outlaw Samurai, but there's always someone ready to complain about something in Star Wars.

 

I'd love to. I already wrote what I think, others did the same. I never planned to write so much here (I usually just read, nothing else) but when I was quoted I just had to reply.

And while we may disagree on some other matters - we can all say it's visually beautiful and also highly emotional.

 

I tend to roll my eyes at the "fake and exaggerated" part. I mean, everything else we see in films is rehearsed an perfected to a T. So, why do fights fall in a different category from a filmmaking perspective? As far as the exaggerated part, this is the height of the Jedi, I don't mind that their moves are much faster and "prettier" then we see in the OT or the ST for that matter.

 

One of the best scenes in the film. It was not the best light sabre fight. And, I also felt TFA sabre sequences were better. Even with my problem of Rey defeating Kylo.

 

The thing is these fights aren't even perfected in the case of fighting or filmmaking. As I mentioned before they don't even try to hit their opponents because it's choregraphed as a dance. So it looks fake. A lot of people like the duel of TPM. Me too, but if you take a closer look, you have to admit that this isn't even a fight.

This video (I know it's a parody) pretty much shows what I mean.

 

Yeah the elite guards were so dumb that they nearly killed 2 extraordinarily powerful force users

 

Do many other people just not enjoy the set they used? It looked so much like, a movie set. I understand what they were going for, with the minimalist design for Snoke, but it came off as too bare and instantly drew me out of the movie, recognizing it was just some actors on a set flailing sticks at each other.

 

Nope not at all. I was watching a marathon last night and had that thought about how dark and boring the set was for throne room in Return of the Jedi. Not a thought I had for The Last Jedi.

 

This was the best scene in TLJ by far, but it was still undone by the silly choreography of the “elite” guards. The character tension between Rey and Kylo carried the scene but the lightsaber fight itself was such a fake looking “movie” fight that neither character ever felt like they were in any danger. This was a very good scene that just missed being truly great because of the cartoonish fight choreography.

Also admit I kind of shake my head at how RJ then just kind of “yadda-yadda ‘d” Rey escaping using Snokes shuttle.