SPECULATION Comparing Franchises: Wise or Unwise?

I like both series. I find the Marvel stuff kind of disposable. You watch them, you're entertained, and then you never watch it again. I've seen every Marvel film, but it's very rare that I ever watch one more than twice.

 

Kevin Feige has his ear to the street where Kathleen does not. The Marvel characters have been around for such a long time that it makes sense to change it up here and there. Marvel also has a much larger catalog to draw from, and based on how they have told stories they have an idea where they want to go. Marvel tells stories that affect the whole Marvel Universe. Other characters can be affected in different comics based on what might have transpired in another comic.
This Star Wars story is suppose to be a continuation story, so the characters should be somewhat the same. Problem has been not only are some characters different than what they were 30 years ago, but also the new characters haven't been the same from Episode 7 to 8.

Rian did what comic book writers do when they want to change up an old character, and have him/her do something different. But you don't do it to a well loved character that everyone probably wanted to see more than anyone else. I think Disney was so afraid for their new characters getting lost to Luke that part of the game plan was to make sure Luke will not be seen doing anything that will outshine Kylo and Rey. But it seems the people at Disney don't have any idea what they want to do with any of the new characters. They have been more shell than substance. Kylo and Rey are just copies of our original characters. They haven't been given enough substance to know what really makes them tick. They are just there, because that is where the original characters were in the first trilogy. No real rhyme or reason.

 

Franchise is a business word for an intellectual property with economic value. Used by scum and villainy such as bankers, lawyers and public relations people.

Star Wars to most people is a film series, or a saga. Never a "franchise". Ugh.

As for Marvel, I don't know or care, because I've never even read a marvel comic in my life. Or want to. Superheroes are boring because they always win (because good always wins, kids!) and they're always predictable. Yawn.

Star Trek used to be okay, but lost its appeal after "Enterprise". Now its just a bad parody of itself.

 

There are times when I think Marvel overdoes the comedy element but they are not even remotely as lame as E8 and, for example, the Poe/Hux cell phone call.​

If you've never read them, how do you know they are always predictable? Yes, in general, the hero has to survive or, at worst, have a short lived death in situations where they die (I'm thinking, like, Superman #75) or you don't have much of a book left.

Comic books are like any other genre of storytelling. There are some bad ones, there are some good ones, and there are some all time classics which have helped shaped overall comic culture to a noticeable degree.

This times 1,000.

Infinity War SPOILER below:

Spoiler

It blows my mind how the death of Spider-Man, a character we were introduced to just last year in his current cinematic form, had a death far, far more moving than anything we've seen in the ST. It was incredibly well done, a teenage boy afraid of dying. Well written, well acted, well directed. My girlfriend was crying.

We can safely assume it won't be a permanent death (I mean, they've already announced future Spider-Man movies for pete's sake) but it was still light years ahead of anything Rian Johnson gave us.

​

 

Yeah, about that..........you may want to rethink your last statement...lol

--- Double Post Merged, May 7, 2018, Original Post Date: May 7, 2018 ---

Infinity War spoilers:

I think it's better to compare Luke's death to

Spoiler

Odin's death in Thor Ragnarok, rather to any of the Infinity War deaths. Though Han's could be compared to Gamora's

--- Double Post Merged, May 7, 2018 ---

There are a few other comparisons with Infnity War (I'm not comparing execution though).

The "pointless" Canto Bight side quest can be compared

Spoiler

to Thor and Rocket going to Nivadeer to build the Stormbreaker. As it only offered a hope spot that was still fruitless.

 

Id like to go every so slightly O.T. & compare SW to The Karate Kid (TKK).

SW is handling the nostalgia rong. TKK is the opposite.

Is it wise to compare franchises? Not sure but i think it's fair.

 

I think it's inevitable. Both are owned by Disney and are Disney's biggest on screen money makers. Both are live action. The list of similarities are pretty long if you want to dig into it. I think the difference is that Marvel is using elements of stories that are loved, and pulling out the good and best parts and remaking them to fit the big screen. A large part of the story is already there, so they're not starting from scratch. There are many cringe worthy moments in Marvel comics that are being avoided in their adaption to the big screen, and no one is complaining. We might even lose or miss some good parts, but as fans we understand there's a lot of material for them to sift through and fit into the movie coherently.

With SW, it's brand new. They could have done the same for the first few movies had they wanted to, using the EU material, but LFL chose to go into uncharted territory. The pros to that is that the story is fresh. The con is that much like the EU and Marvel comics, there will almost certainly be cringe worthy moments that now sneak into canon. If something doesn't work for the fans, it's too late once it hits the big screen. Which means with every subsequent installment, they'll lose some fans. So the battle for SW will be how many they can gain to offset the loss every time.

In this way the ST is not comparable... though it could have been. That, I think is the most frustrating thing. It could have been. That's not to say we couldn't have had a new series eventually, but for now, they could have given us some modified EU material. Even one trilogy would have sufficed for most of us. Without having have viewed the ST, I think even ST lovers would have enjoyed a modified Thrawn/Jedi Academy trilogy, which could have then rolled into the ST with the much needed world building that the ST lacks.

But we'll never get that anymore, they missed their chance. SW will forevermore be doomed to trying to gain more fans than they lose with each added movie. At some point, I'm convinced we'll one day see a reboot. It might be 5, 10 or 20 years away, but I think TLJ and ST will be that chink in the armor, that crack in the foundation, that will eventually have the SW world crumble down to be rebuilt.

 

I have to say up front that I'm not a comic book guy and don't find the MCU (let alone the DCEU) very interesting.
So take this with whatever amount of salt that concession amounts to.

I find the comparisons between TLJ and A:IW bizarre.
I would much prefer Lucasfilm to be daring and even produce hits and misses (which TLJ undoubtedly is for some) than to imitate the transparent, inoffensive characteristics of the MCU.
Does anyone really believe that even a comparatively daring film like A:IW will have a longer half-life time than a couple of years?
I really don't get it.

 

This. Infinity War will be forgotten pretty soon. It's a Marvel movie after all. You see one, talk about it for a short time and that's it. These movies are the definition of mainstream entertainment and therefore they are successful, but also not very suitable for a long half-life period.

 

Star Wars uniqueness is its mythos,the governing Cosmic Force,a Force that has its own Will that manifested and defined itself in original founding Lucas films.
Its a religious (broad sense) approach,semi-deterministic original Lucas approach. Random sandbox approach to superheroes perfectly fits Marvel,it however does no good to Star Wars.
Anything that removes this deterministic mythos from Star Wars, like ideas of randomnes and "nobodies " or forced de-Skywalkerisation ,deprives SW franchise of its most impotant unique advantage over Marvel and other franchises,and at best places Star Wars in the same League of random superhero franchises,to compete under same terms in the same arena where Marvel is undisputed King .

Yes doing sandbox hero films is more easy,but in in order to be profitabile and not in direct competition with Marvel,on a long run this is exactly what Star Wars must avoid.

On the other hand a lot can be learned from Marvel. How to treat greatest heroes..for instance imagine Spiderman,Captain America..milking docile sea cows and drink their milk for no whatsoever reason...fans dont like that kind of main hero treatment.

 

I dunno, what happened in IW changed the universe forever. At least the next standalone movies are gonna have to deal with what happened in IW.

 

This is a very good thread and I agree with many things said here. I was a random/casual MCU moviegoer until now. I did not see every movie, like I missed Thor 3 (which I changed now via pay tv). When I saw IW last week, I realized that I had missed something. What I really enjoy is this ongoing story and this makes it almost comparable to Star Wars. There are many things better done in MCU than in Star Wars. The storytelling and coherence is far superior. The most important thing for me is that Kevin Feige and the whole Marvel team just respects the fanbase and don't treat them like idiots.

Regarding the ST reboot, I did like ST 2009, but did not like Into Darkness and missed the last one. I'm not really into this franchise and enjoy some of them from time to time.

Right now I'm just more invested into MCU with repeated viewings than into SW.

 

Marvel movies are coherent because they are all the same. If you know one Marvel movie you know them all. At least Inifinity War tried to change that... Unfortunately it didn't really work for me.

Yeah, this is the reason why so many characters got screwed in Inifinity War... Loki (probably the best Marvel character) was killed in the first three minutes, Hulk is big joke, Ant-Man and Hawkeye don't even appear in this movie etc... I don't call that respect even though I'm not even a Marvel fan.

 

I disagree that there "all the same." Guardians has a very different tone then say Thor. Ant-Man is a heist movie. Civil War is a very different movie then Winter Soldier. It focuses more on The Avengers conflict, Tony and Cap's history.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you on that. Guardians and Ant-Man are some of my favorite Marvel movies, but they still follow the same core structure as every Marvel movie and this is getting kinda boring.

 

Not really. Captain Marvel is set in the 90s, Ant-Man would probably be set before IW and IW2 would just rewind time to resurrect everybody and return everything to the way it was (maybe somebody, Iron Man most likely, would have to sacrifice themselves and that would be it).

As for Star Wars, to distinguish itself from MCU it should focus more on the universe and world-building and become more like Lord of the Rings. The problem people have with milk-drinking Luke is that they seem to treat him, Han and Leia as a mix of comic book superheroes and religious figures. If SW becomes this grand world, inhabited by "real" yet flawed people, rather than this adventure series of children's heroes, it would last for a long time.

 

People always will but I don't think it needs to be. It's like comparing apples to oranges. Both are popular fruits, good for you, have similarities and differences but in the end, they are different fruits, each with their own merits. You can like both, like one and not the other, or hate both but in the end they are both fruits and will always be there, unchanging, and each having a different taste.

 

Cobra Kai is a tv show. There's more room to do stuff, but less budget for spectacle.

Plus it's about two rivals over thirty years later and the comparisons of the paths they took and teaching a new generation.

You could do that also with Rocky. Or as they did, go the Creed path.

You can't do that with Star Wars though.