Did Owen and Beru Know?

It’s nebulous what Owen does or doesn’t know though. For me, the story works better if the danger looming over Luke is more theoretical for Owen than definitive. It’s more relatable as an analogue of a parent fearing to let go and allow their child to experience the big wide world on their own.

Yes, there’s scary things out there. And yes, you want to keep your kid safe from them. But eventually you have to let them get out there and become who they are. That kind of changes though when you know for an absolute fact that there are indeed psychopathic murderers actively on the hunt for kids like yours. Y’know? It isn’t a maybe anymore. It’s a certainty. And now Owen is oddly correct in wanting to shelter his nephew from the terrifying outside world.

But there’s no indication that Owen knows (or cares) anything about that. To him, Anakin was doomed the moment he decided to go run off and play hero. If he’d just stayed home, he’d still be alive and Luke would have his father. It’s important to the story that Owen is entirely wrongheaded in that viewpoint. His fear of the outside world is discouraging his nephew from getting involved and making that world a better place.

A crazy wizard lady, with a laser sword, showed up on his doorstep one day and wanted to murder his adopted son. The only reason she didn’t is because she had a sudden change of heart. I feel, after that, a fear for Luke’s safety is very well-founded. If it happened once, it could happen again and he probably won’t get that lucky next time.

It’s just a personal preference. I’d rather Owen’s motivation be good natured, but completely misguided. Making it more sympathetic by adding irrefutable evidence supporting it, gums that up for me.

Yoda’s hesitance was largely about doubting Luke’s commitment. He says he wants to be a Jedi, but he has absolutely no idea what that actually means. Luke has to fundamentally rewire his perspective. To ‘unlearn what he had learned’. Yoda wasn’t sure if Luke was truly up to meeting that challenge. If he was too impatient and set in his ways to ever change. He wanted Luke to grow, but was worried he couldn’t grow enough.

Owen though is an advocate of the status quo. His drive centered on a fear of change - a fear of growth. He didn’t want Luke to want to become more than what he already was. Their respective motivations are really more antithetical than anything else.

 

I don't like this idea in context to Owen. In ANH, we are told clearly that Tattooine is outside the Empire's purview. There was no invasive tyranny like there was in other systems. In OWK, we see that the Inquisitors showed up, but that was hardly an occupation, they were just on the hunt and would be gone as fast as they arrived. The Rebel Alliance was the stuff of fairy tales, as we see by Luke's reaction when Obi-Wan mentions it. I don't see Owen as complacent in regard to the Empire, they were not a tangible threat to his way of life. His way had worked for him, his father, and who knows how many generations of Lars had been happy and lived good lives on that homestead. That's what they wanted for Luke, and that was a reasonable and loving concern for them to have. He could be happy, stable, and safe. Owen didn't need adventure and to see the Galaxy. Some people are like that. Loving a simple life does not necessarily make one simple. If the Empire had treated Tattooine as they had Ryloth, Kashyyyk, Ferrix, and so many other planets and systems, I feel certain Owen was the Rebel kind. As it was, that wasn't his fight.

I do like this idea. Again, they lived in the Galactic version of small farm town middle America. Last names were rarely used. That's young Luke, you know, Owen's boy. He obviously knew some stories about his father, and Anakin was from Tattooine, so I always imagine some of his legend as a war hero had gotten back to his hometown. So Luke may not have used the name, but once Obi-Wan put those "damn fool" ideas of space battles and laser swords in his head, he had a new pride in his birthright.

This sounds like some malarkey GL would have let fall out his mouth when challenged about the issue. I can live with the theory that Sidious was so adept in the Force that he could "scramble the signal" or even better, the already established arrogance/head-in-the-sand attitude of the Jedi Council. Either of these imply intent and effort or the lack of effort as the underlying evil. I don't like a "disability" as the explanation, as the Jedi, especially, have been sold to us as beyond such limitations. At least that's the way I've always seen it.

 

That’s the point though. That’s the mindset that Lucas was concerned about. ‘That’s a problem happening over there. Not here. I only need to care about me and mine.’ If that’s how everybody thinks, then nothing gets better. It only gets worse, because it’s allowed to. It’s something he came back to in TPM.

OBI-WAN: Once those droids take control of the surface, they will take control of you.
BOSS NASS: Mesa no tink so. Day not know of uss-en.
OBI-WAN: You and the Naboo form a symbiont circle. What happens to one of you will affect the other. You must understand this.
BOSS NASS: Wesa no carrrre-nn about da Naboo.

To Lucas, everyone exists in a ‘symbiont circle’. We’re all connected regardless. There’s no separation. If an atrocity is happening the next town over, the next continent over, the next planet over, we all have an obligation to one another to help. Because it is actually happening to us even if we don’t realize it. That’s the nature of Luke’s resistance to Obi-Wan.

LUKE: I can't get involved. I've got work to do. It's not that I like the Empire. I hate it, but there's nothing I can do about it right now. It's all such a long way from here.
OBI-WAN: That's your uncle talking.

It’s the best way I can explain why Palpatine is totally blindsided by Vader’s betrayal in ROTJ. The guy can definitely see the future. He knows the circumstances of what’s going to happen. But he didn’t see that coming? Why not? My take is that it’s because the motivation was an entirely selfless desire to protect. It was an act of love. And Palpatine can’t comprehend that. He literally can’t perceive it. He’s blind to it.

So, if that read is at all true, then wouldn’t the opposite be true too? Wouldn’t the Jedi be blind to the selfish, greedy desires of the Sith? “The dark side of the Force surrounds the chancellor.” Sure, but he’s a self-serving politician. I betcha most of them are surrounded by the dark side

 

Absolutely. They didn't meet in person til their late teens, but you know that Owen heard the tales of his Jedi Knight step brother, and Shmi was no doubt a mother to Owen, so he probably did wish his heroic bro would have just stayed instead of heading off back into the netherworld s of the Galaxy. There was vary likely a familial bond there, even if it was one-sided. Again, I feel that calling it a "fear" in Owen is not quite fair. Fear might have been a small part of the equation after the Reva debacle, but it always seemed more of a practicality thing with Owen. Yes, there is the fear of your child going out into the unknown, you always want the best for them. If Owen truly believed that Luke's best option was carrying on the Family business, that's not really fear, it just makes sense. Kids dream big.

So, here's an interesting point of view with the whole Reva thing. At first it seemed a little coincidental that she singled Owen out in town. But what if she sensed a certain fear in him? He at least knew enough about the Jedi/Force to know that if these Inquisitors were hunting down and killing Jedi, that Luke was inherently in danger. That would also explain her immediate recall after she finds Bail's holophone thing and she goes directly to the Lars Homestead. That further supports that while he may not have known the full and complete story, he knew enough to know that Luke would be in imminent danger if his existence was made known. So did Obi-Wan tell him so, or did he just put the pieces together on hi own?

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 24, 2023, Original Post Date: Feb 24, 2023 ---

Ok, yes. I completely agree with you philosophically. However, whether it is due to apathy, ignorance, helplessness, whatever, it is also very realistic to show a segment of the population that can't or won't be bothered by the tyranny of evil, and still not be labeled as "part of the problem". If Owen had been a powerful and wealthy man with a network of resources, like, say, Bail Organa, then yes, it would be reasonable to expect him to fight the Empire. Like I said before, I believe that if the Empire had found a reason to put Tattooine under it's thumb like so many other oppressed Systems, then Owen would have taken up the fight. Likely encouraged Luke to join the RA and fight. But those problems were a million miles from his humble little backwater moisture farm. That's not apathy, it's simply living life and providing for everything that matters to you. You can't fault a man for that. I know it seems like this gets used a lot, but this case it's a very valid comparison, look at Ferrix in Andor. Pre-Empire Ferrix was probably very much like Tattooine. Then came the Empire with their taxes, and oversight, encroaching on trade routes, making it harder and harder for the residents to make a living. That breeds Rebellion. There was no need for such a mindset on Tattooine. There were no evil overlords. No occupation or oppression. Not even a looming threat of it. Their way of life was a working one, but it was what they knew. I HATE the atrocities happening in Ukraine. I fully support the people and the spirit of Ukraine. I've given a few dollars here and there for humanitarian aid. I fully support our Government providing any and all assistance to fight the tyranny. But, I'm not about to grab a gun and go fight. I'm not going to encourage my son or my nephews to go fight.

 

This is not correct. There is ample evidence to undermine and contradict this notion that Owen is just unduly scared of the outside world (as if Tatooine is a safe environment, which we are constantly reminded it's not). At no point does he express this so you can't have it both ways and state that Owen doesn't have any concept of the danger of Luke emulating his father's career because he never expresses that. (Especially because he does express it but I'll come back to that.) Owen wants Luke to stay another year and help him. Simple as that. It gave the impression that Owen feels that is a better experience and path to maturity than Luke's desired emancipation by joining the Academy in the wake of his older friends taking that path. With a little self interest added in there. It's not uncommon for a parent to expect this as a show of gratitude. Or reciprocation of the sacrifices that he has made for Luke, to put it a nicer way. But stalling Luke's ambitions might give him a better chance with a bit more farming experience and maturity in a year or two. He might even grow out of them. Maybe the civil war will be over by then and he won't have to follow in his father's footsteps.

"Luke's just not a farmer Owen. He's got too much of his father in him."..... "That's what I'm afraid of."

This comes directly after Owen acts like the rug has been pulled out from under him when Luke mentions that the droids belong to "Obi-Wan Kenobi". And then Owen suddenly asperses Ben Kenobi, which takes Luke by surprise. This is clearly a much harsher attitude than Owen has displayed before about Ben since Luke clearly felt comfortable bringing it up. "You stay away from him, you hear me? He's dangerous!" And we're not even talking about Luke leaving Tatooine yet. We're just talking about the droids and Obi Wan.

And the big one. Owen tries to subtly shut it down by mumbling that Obi-Wan died at the same time as Luke's father. A mistake he instantly regrets.

"He knew my father?"...... "I told you to forget it."

When Luke suggesting sending his application to the academy early, Owen is merely skeptical of its wisdom. But when his father and Obi Wan are mixed up in it, he loses his composure. Why the difference?

Then directly after this Luke meets "Obi-Wan" who he has know as Ben for some time (since the events of OWK as it turns out, so about ten years). And now we learn what Owen was afraid of. And it wasn't Luke becoming a navigator on a spice freighter. It was because Luke's father was a knight of an ancient but now outlawed order who was betrayed and murdered by one if his own kind on behalf of the ruler of the evil regime that others of Luke's generation hope to overturn. And what's more, the droids which Owen was keen to have memory wiped and shut down any talk of finding out who the might have belonged to, belonged to the woman who was just captured and is currently being tortured by Darth Vader. The man who murdered Luke's father. It really couldn't be much clearer. (Unless the homestead scene ended with different dialogue "I'm afraid that Luke will be murdered by Darth Vader too if he follows in his father's footsteps too closely")

From a combined writing and editing standpoint, this is probably the best most successful narrative sequence in the entire saga. From R2 showing part of the message right through to "I want to come to Alderann with you..."

It's made quite clear that Reva's presence on Tatooine at the end of OWK is a consequence of her vendetta against Kenobi (and Vader). The inquisitors had already purged Tatooine of its Jedi refugee in the opening episode. They assume so because any other Jedi in the area would have come to the aid of the one they apprehended and lynched. (They assumed incorrectly, of course). And Reva was acting on her own at the end. Arguably Reva never had the heart to kill Luke or any child Jedi for that matter. (Notice that she ultimately took no part in the earlier lynching as she was ordered not to go above her station.)

If it can happen again though, then wouldn't it be wise of Owen to send or take Luke away from Tatooine? Rmainig there contradicts the idea that Owen is fearful of another Reva coming around.

"Much like your father."

You cannot separate Yoda's concerns about the danger in Luke's training due to a possible lack of commitment from Anakin's problems with his training and not committing to Yoda's advice to train himself to let go of things he fears to lose. That lead to Anakin's fear and anger leading him down a dark path. Dealing with fear and anger is a part of Jedi training that must be committed to in order not to fall to the dark side. The movies pretty much grind the axe on this matter in the context of both Anakin and Luke's training. And it's Yoda who grinds it.

Clearly it's better not to start at all than to go half cocked and have your destiny blow up in your face. Of course Owen has no knowledge of Jedi teachings. But he absolutely knows that it, and a lot of other things, went badly with Anakin. Because Anakin is now dead, Owen and Beru were lift to pick up the pieces (or a piece) of his relationship with Padme, who also died. Luke following in his father's footsteps and being subject to the same failings and suffering similar consequences after having been raised a relatively normal life up till now is absolutely what Owen is afraid of. If history repeats, Luke will be dead in about four years. And so will a lot of other innocent people, either as a direct or indirect consequence.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 25, 2023, Original Post Date: Feb 25, 2023 ---

In theory yes. And I'm always open to ambiguity. That could just be Obi-Wan's interpretation of Owen's sometimes passive aggression. If Anakin hadn't been a screw up then Owen wouldn't have had to raise his kid for him. So that might not be exactly what Owen thinks, but it ultimately means the same thing or has the same outcome as Owen thinking that Ben is dangerous for Luke.

 

Sorry, but I’m not sure how this response relates to what I wrote previously. My point is that there’s a distinct difference between knowing the world is full of dangerous people that COULD harm your loved one and knowing that there are specific dangerous people out there that absolutely WILL harm your loved one. One, in my mind, is far more condonable than the other. My personal preference, for the story, is for Owen’s reservations be in respect to a general anxiety. To be less definitive and so less defensible.

The Owen character represents the limited world view that Luke has to move beyond in order to become our hero. He doesn’t want to get involved in the larger world and he doesn’t want his nephew to get involved either. That perspective, like so much in Star Wars, is rooted in a place of fear and that fear must be overcome in order to mature. The more credence that’s lent to that perspective, the less distinct it is as the morally wrong perspective.

OWEN: You must understand I need you here, Luke.
LUKE: But it's a whole 'nother year!
OWEN: Look, it's only one more season.
LUKE: Yeah, that's what you said when Biggs and Tank left.
OWEN: Where are you going?
LUKE: Looks like I'm going nowhere.

The implication of this exchange is that this isn’t the first time Luke has heard the “one more season” line from his uncle. There will always be another excuse why Luke can’t leave and he’s starting to catch wise to that. The reality is that Owen doesn’t REALLY need Luke to stay on the farm at all. He’s just scared of him leaving and so uses Luke’s sense of duty as a means of passive-aggressively blocking him.

Wherever “the academy” is, we’re definitely talking about Luke leaving the farm though. That’s the topic of conversation. That’s what Owen is objecting to.

BERU: Owen, he can't stay here forever. Most of his friends have gone. It means so much to him.
OWEN: I'll make it up to him next year. I promise.
BERU: Luke’s just not a farmer, Owen. He has too much of his father in him.
OWEN: That's what I'm afraid of.

Beru’s point is that Owen is only delaying the inevitable. Luke isn’t a farmer. He isn’t going to stay on the farm. He, like his father, is eventually going to search the larger world for a greater sense of purpose. Owen isn’t concerned about Luke becoming a Jedi or joining the Rebellion or whatever. He’s concerned about his nephew going somewhere, anywhere, he can’t protect him. The farm is where he’s safe. So the farm is where he should stay. But, as Beru already knows, that’s just not realistic. It’s not who their nephew is or will ever be.

Again, what Owen actually knows about the circumstances of Anakin’s death is nebulous. It’s whatever Obi-Wan decided to tell him. And Obi-Wan hasn’t exactly proven himself to be a particularly reliable witness when it comes to this specific incident.

We get a very simple answer to Owen’s alarm over Obi-Wan’s name from Obi-Wan himself. “He feared you might follow old Obi-Wan on some damn-fool idealistic crusade like your father did.” Not terribly complicated. Obi-Wan represented a potential avenue to lead Luke away from the safety of the farm. Luke’s dad followed this jerk off to some supposedly noble enterprise and it got him killed. He’s scared history will repeat itself because his nephew definitely has that same gear: to get involved, to make a difference.

The Owen character doesn’t know any of what you’re talking about though. All he knows is that someone violently invaded his home, with the intent of harming his nephew, and there was absolutely nothing he could do to stop it. He had no reason to expect the Inquisitors would show up in his town when they did. And he has no reason to expect they won’t randomly show up there again.

Yes. That’s my point. Before, he was being over-reactive. Now, he’s being comparatively under-reactive.

I’m not separating Luke’s journey from his father’s. I’m separating Yoda’s motivation from Owen’s. That’s what you were comparing. You seem to be of the mind that Owen genuinely wants what’s best for Luke. But really, it’s actually about himself. He loves his nephew and wants to keep him safe. But he’s willing to achieve that at the expense of him reaching his full potential. As well-intended and understandable as that might be, it’s a purely selfish design driven by fear. That’s not at all where Yoda is approaching from.

Yoda DOES genuine want what’s best for Luke. He wants him to reach that full potential. But the biggest part of that process is his understanding just how monumental an undertaking it is to start the journey in front of him. “Will he finish what he begins?” He's giving him a choice. Personally, I don’t believe Yoda was seriously going to turn Luke away. In my mind, it was another test of his character like his dippy act. But that’s me.

I think that’s a really cool read. I like that idea a lot. But I don’t think that’s what the story is trying to say. I don’t believe Owen has the greater good in mind at all. I think he, like Anakin with Padmé, is afraid of loss and trying to control something that isn’t his to control. It’s entirely sympathetic, but mostly greedy and possessive. And, well, this series has a pretty firm opinion on that personal foible.

 

The problem that I have with this idea is that it makes Owen into a "bad guy" which he definitely is not. As a fan who has literally grown from toddler to middle-aged man with this movie, I have to admit my perspective on Uncle Owen has aged with me. Yes, there is the element of the strict parental unit trying to keep the kid on the farm, but now, I also see the pragmatism and practicality of the parent who loves and worries about the child and the choices they make. Were Owen's plans for Luke selfish? Sure. Maybe 20% of his thinking was that. That's part of the parental equation. The other 80% is trying to impart wisdom and guidance that will serve the child for a better future. An important thing to consider also, nothing Owen told Luke was untrue in regards to his future. Ok, sure, the story about Anakin wasn't completely clear and honest, but then again, we are also debating how much Owen and Beru knew anyway. So for all we know, Owen was being completely transparent with what he knew. But he wasn't lying to Luke. He was needed on the farm. He could have had a life every bit as satisfying or even more so than Owen himself had. I have no doubt that Owen was resentful for what happened to Anakin. He would be biased to downplay and dismiss that sort of life, especially to his adopted son. He wasn't wrong to be fearful of Luke choosing a path that he had seen destroy Anakin. He wasn't holding Luke back from becoming his true self, he was hoping to show him what he genuinely considered a better way. That's not even considering that he knew there were evil people out there that would hunt him down and kill him simply based on who his father was.

Sure. Owen knew that Luke had "too much of his Father in him" from an early age. We see that in the first episode of OWK when he needs to be doing chores and is instead playing fighter pilot. He also knew that part of the reason Obi-Wan was hanging around, was to train Luke when he was old enough to make that decision. So, no way in Hell did Owen want Luke to think Old Ben was anything but a crazy old hermit. Owen had a big enough challenge trying to keep Luke on the farm without the added enticement that a Jedi Knight would surely tip the scales with. Again, think of the stigma that the Rebellion and even moreso the Jedi carried in this time. Not to mention Owen's personal bias against the Jedi. Likewise, Obi-Wan knew that Owen would have resentment toward him, and would want to keep Luke away from him, and I think that for many reasons, he only told Owen what he needed to know. I also imagine that over the years Owen and Beru were able to put pieces together and create their own version that was close enough to have a story for Luke.

 

Not a “bad guy”. More of an ‘accidental antagonist’. I believe he truly loves Luke like a son and wants (what he thinks) is best for him. But really it’s only what was best for himself. It’s something a lot of parents can find themselves inadvertently doing: forcing a life they want for their child on to them because they know better.

It isn’t malicious. It’s misguided. Like George Walton Lucas Sr. wanting his little Georgie to stay in Modesto to run his stationery store with him instead of jetting off to Southern California to be some kind of artist. You gotta let them be who THEY want to be. Not what you want them to want to be. However hard that is.

The problem is that the story itself doesn’t bear that out. If Owen had gotten his way and Luke had stayed put on that farm, then he doesn’t become a Jedi and he doesn’t save the galaxy. From a narrative perspective, the character and his viewpoint is a fundamental obstacle to the protagonist’s journey. He’s keeping the hero from becoming the hero. Whatever may be in his heart or his mind, he’s endorsing the wrong side.

I’m sure all the great figures of history, who changed the world, could have led perfectly contented lives minding their own business instead of being instruments for change. But I don’t think that’s the message the story is trying to convey. Luke has immense potential to be a massive source for good in the world. Fixing faulty moisture vaporators isn’t the path that will allow him to realize that potential.

Both can be true. You can hope to show someone a better way AND have that way be totally antithetical to who that person truly is. ‘Conversion therapy’ springs to mind.

That’s where things get dicey for me. Knowing that the world is a terrifying place full of degenerates, being anxious about letting my kid walk to school (for example) is completely natural. But eventually I have to loosen my grip and let her grow up. It’s scary, but it’s a part of life.

However, if I knew for certain there was a cult of homicidal maniacs out there targeting her specifically, all that growth business goes right out the damn window. She’s not walking to school. Hell, she’s not even going to school. I’m not letting that kid out my sight.

I prefer the stakes for the Lars’ couple be the former rather than the latter. I prefer Owen’s overprotective attitude be the product of a flawed outlook reflecting a larger theme of the series, rather than a totally reasonable sense of caution.

 

Nothing in the movie supports it and there is plenty to contradict and undermine the notion that Owen is motivated by a general fear of the world outside Tatooine.

Owen represents to Luke (and for a brief spell before we meet Obi Wan, to the audience too) a limited world view which is holding him back. Naturally he's protective as a parent should be. And naturally Luke is frustrated and doesn't understand or accept it. He clearly resents it as teenagers invariably do. But that doesn't make Owen wrong for now at least. There is nothing to indicate that Owen's fears are irrational, excessive or otherwise unjustified. Definitely not morally wrong. Especially since the movie just opened with a battle and sinister Imperial agents murdering and capturing sympathetic freedom fighters right on Tatooine's doorstep, with two escapee droids now living in the Lars homestead. And even more especially since the movie has already shown Luke to be somewhat immature and feckless. Just a child really.

Parents, unless they perhaps have personality problems themselves, don't tend to just fear the outside or adult world. They fear that their child should enter it before they are ready for it. They perhaps fear one or two things about society that they either never experienced when they came of age, or did so unsuccessfully at first, learning the hard way. Or they have a deep secret fear of something specific from experience, or someone else's experience, that they don't wish to see repeated. Even if they are consciously aware of it or not.

Another excuse? That suggests that Owen needs to excuse himself and has a list of them he's going through just to spuriously frustrate Luke's ambition. That's just not supported by anything said in the movie. Just seems like Owen has told him, more than once, that he's not ready and Owen needs him until he can afford to pay someone to do Luke's work. I don't see any evidence of false pretenses being made by Owen. Luke even acknowledges that he expected to stay longer and now he's trying to bring the timetable forward. It's Luke who is moving the goalposts and chancing his arm at getting Owen to let him go early now that he has two droid helpers. It's not Owen inventing excuses.

The "where" was not a matter of confusion or contention. It's the why Owen is afraid. Owen knows he's delaying the inevitable. But he'd be happy if Luke just settled on Tatooine. Beru has a better time at accepting that it's unrealistic. Because she's by default and tradition/convention the more sympathetic or softer parent. That's all. (Let's be honest here. Beru is a relatively thinly fleshed out character. She's just the good cop mom to Owen's "bad" cop. Owen is given more stuff because he has a valid reason to try and moderate Luke's ambition.)

Beru also recognizes that if Luke is that ambitious and eager then keeping him back is futile. Owen for his part acknowledges what he's asking of Luke and promises to make it up to him.

I don't think it's nebulous. It's just not explicated by Owen what his true fears are. The scriptwriter needs Obi-Wan to reveal to Luke what his father's fate was. Having Owen disclose this just so his motives are explicit makes that redundant. You don't have two characters make the same revelation. You have one who is either reticent or taciturn, and then one who tells the "truth".

Obi-Wan is not established as somewhat unreliable yet. In fact the author hasn't even made that character choice for him yet.

Being a Jedi knight isn't just idly going off in adventures where you are subject to the dangers of the big bad world. That's Obi-Wan euphemistically describing the tension between himself and Luke's Uncle to explain the subterfuge of his identity and Owen's reluctance for Luke to get too close to old Ben. Becoming a Jedi knight, Obi-Wan's pupil, and not following or committing to his training culminated in Anakin dying, his wife dying and his children being oprhaned while the Jedi were outlawed, persecuted and slaughtered at the time that the Republic became a dictatorship which acts with impunity and people around the galaxy are now oppressed and terrorised by. It's not just that the farm is nominally safer than the outside world. It's that the outside world is a nightmare scenario which Anakin, and Obi Wan, played a part in making.

As you said, Owen didn't know Anakin as a kid when he joined the Jedi order. He doesn't know the circumstances of his induction into that realm. He just knows that it ended badly for many people. He met Anakin when all the bad stuff that Anakin couldn't handle started to happen too.

It's supremely far fetched that Owen would tolerate not being told by Obi-Wan what just happened, why and what is likely to happen next. Besides, Owen and Beru were already prepared for such a moment. So they clearly do anticipate that the past may come back to haunt Anakin's kid. 9And if those preparations are just because Tatooine is dangerous then, like I said before, it makes nonsense out of Owen staying and raising Luke there if he's so indefensibly afraid of the outside world harming Luke.

Not wanting the same fate to befall Luke as did his father, or the collateral damage that befell others at that time, isn't "just wanting the best for Luke".

Nothing in Owen's demeanor or his words supports your theory that it is purely selfish. The movie reveals the fate of Luke's father to lend justification of his fears. It does not make it necessarily right. But it gives Owen credible motivation. Much more compelling than ordinary paternal protectiveness. And certainly not just because he is irrational or selfish.



I get that you preferred imagining that Owen unjustifiably and indefensibly held Luke back for no real reason other than that he could. And that is what the immature, inexperienced and impatient teenager would think too. But that's not the whole picture. The movie is clearly not intended to depict Owen's intransigence regarding Luke's desire to be emancipated and the tragic story that Obi-Wan tells of what happened to his father and why are separate and coincidental. Yes, despite what people say you can and should interpret a filmmakers intentions with certain things. The writer has basic narrative objectives and wants the audience to infer the connections without just spelling them out.

The form that the depictions of Owen stalling Luke's impatience to follow his destiny, and Obi-Wan's revelations of the true fate of Luke's father shows that their function was clearly for one to illuminate the other. Notice that Obi-Wan says "That's what your Uncle told you." And not, "That's what I told your Uncle." And it's clear that he means Owen told you that because of what happened to your father. Not just because Owen has a basic fear of the outside world. The two sides of the conflict between Luke-Owen and Luke-Ben don't exist independently of each other and the history of Luke's father. Lukes father's fate is just as important to Owen as it is to Obi-Wan regarding giving Luke a chance to meet a happier or less tragic destiny.

At first it just appears like inordinately apprehensive parenting, but then the movie immediately gives us a tragic back story to justify Owen trying to protect his immature and impatient nephew. Then the tragic irony is that the one who killed Luke's father unwittingly has Luke's adoptive parents killed before Luke can reconcile this new information with himself and with his Uncle.

 

Precisely. When you’re younger you can only see Luke’s side of it and feel his sense of injustice. Then with a little more experience you realise that’s just the impetuousness of youth. By the time you get to maturity, you reckon that Owen should have had Luke in leg shackles and a muzzle over his whining mouth.

Seriously though, even as a child when I saw the homestead burning, I also shared Luke’s sense of guilt and the realisation that Owen was wise to be cautious. After all, here’s the Empire which his father’s murderer serves, turned up on his doorstep and killed the only family he had left. And the irony that the tyranny of the thing Owen tried to protect him from have forced him to follow a far greater destiny than eve Luke envisioned fir himself and his piloting ambitions.

 

I think for the most part, we are all three arguing the same point, just dressed differently. Like any of us who have raised/are raising kids, Owen only wants the best for Luke. We slightly vary in ideas of his motivation, but, we probably also differ in the ways we have raised our own kids. This is a complex issue and one of those ambiguities throughout SW that, whether intentional or not, will spur debate for years to come.

Now, of course, in the Grand Scheme and Big Story of it all, we know that Luke leaving Tattooine was crucial in everything else that happens in perpetuity. If Owen and Beru had not been killed by Stormtroopers, would Luke have left? Probably not. He loved them. They were his parents and he would have done as they asked.

Then what? Obi-Wan, Han and Chewie very well could have been on Alderaan, with the DS plans when it was destroyed. Tarkin would have killed Leia. The Rebellion would have been crushed.

So would all of that been Owen's fault? That's quite a stretch. A very "Butterfly Effect" question. In the narrative we have, Owen and Beru served an important purpose in the raising and protection of Luke Skywalker. Fleshing that out and giving it deeper threads, as done on OWK and in discussions like this, are not going to change anything, but shows the depth and ownership that WE have of this story and it's characters.

 

Whether it’s Luke meeting up with Obi-Wan or him going off to “the academy”, Owen is resistant to both. That both come up at that dinner table, isn’t a coincidence. It’s his intention to prevent both and that intention is motivated by fear. Luke is safe if he stays. And he’s in danger if he doesn’t. The outside world, whatever its form, is dangerous to Luke.

OBI-WAN: That's what your uncle told you. He didn't hold with your father's ideals. Thought he should have stayed here and not gotten involved.
…
OBI-WAN: I need your help, Luke. She needs your help. I'm getting too old for this sort of thing.
LUKE: I can't get involved.
…
OBI-WAN: That's your uncle talking.

What we have here is a classic collision of values. The Obi-Wan character represents the ethos of involvement: risking your own safety in order to help someone in need. The Owen character (or the idea of him anyway) represents the opposing ethos of noninvolvement (or self-involvement): only concerning yourself with your own safety and those around you. This mindset, we’re explicitly told, predates the death of Luke’s father. It served to support his existing anxieties and worldview. It didn’t create them.

There’s a debate happening here and it’s easy to see which side of it the story is promoting. Within the context of the narrative, Obi-Wan is morally right and Owen is morally wrong. It’s morally correct for Luke to leave home and get involved like Obi-Wan wants and it’s morally wrong for him to stay home and not get involved like (we’re told) Owen wants.

This same collision of values comes back later in the story as a conflict between the Luke and Han characters.

LUKE: But they're gonna kill her!
HAN: Better her than me.
…
LUKE: Come on. Why don't you take a look around? You know what's about to happen, what they're up against. They could use a good pilot like you. You're turning your back on them.
HAN: What good's a reward if you ain't around to use it? Besides, attacking that battle station ain't my idea of courage. It's more like...suicide.
LUKE: All right. Take care of yourself, Han. I guess that's what you're best at, isn't it?

Again, it’s a debate between involvement and noninvolvement. And again, the story makes it clear which side it’s promoting.

Owen’s attitude toward his nephew is an extension of his broader worldview of noninvolvement. That worldview, by its very nature, is a fearful perspective of self-interest and the story is depicting it as the incorrect view to have. At the start of the story, Luke echoes his uncle’s morality. At its end, he’s entirely abandoned it as a marker of having matured.

Beru’s line doesn’t make any sense otherwise though. “He can't stay here forever” implies that Owen could let him go, but is intentionally holding him back anyway. Whether it’s this season or next, it doesn’t really make a difference. And Owen does not push back on this truth whatsoever.

Now there’s something “not supported by anything said in the movie”. Owen’s case isn’t that Luke is ill prepared. It’s that he’d be leaving him in a bind. He’s playing on Luke’s noble sense of obligation. He couldn’t just up and abandon someone that needs him. And Owen is conveniently always going to need him.

“This year we'll make enough on the harvest that I'll be able to hire more hands and then you can go to the academy next year.” Cool cool cool. But, what if they DON’T make enough on the harvest? And who is it that gets to decide how much is enough again?

But how does that perspective connect to the larger philosophical schism the story is presenting us with? Luke defying his uncle’s inclinations is exactly what the story needs to have happen here. What Owen wants is diametrically opposed to what the story wants. He has good intentions. His heart is in the right place. But his actions actively work against the narrative’s concept of a noble pursuit.

The Owen character IS hampering our hero’s development. That’s his function in the story. That obstruction isn’t just in there to be a relatable analogue of conventional teenage rebellion. It’s a broader metaphor about the perils of insular thinking. It’s a mindset motivated by fear. Fear of the other. Fear of the outside. Owen only cares about himself and his family as an extension of himself. His protectiveness of his nephew is a direct manifestation of that fear. That’s the connection to what’s happening out there on the galactic stage and what’s happening in there around that dinner table. Macro to micro: it’s the same thing happening at different levels.

And the story is telling you, in no uncertain terms, this is the wrong mindset to have. It keeps you from reaching out and helping others. And helping others is precisely where the story wants its hero to be. Not hold up on a farm in the middle of nowhere. But out there making a positive change in the world.

Wait, are we not taking into consideration the rest of continuity here? The question was whether the Lars’ couple knew Anakin = Vader. If we’re viewing ANH as self-contained, then no, they definitely didn’t.

My position is that I’d rather they not know. Since Owen’s perspective in the story is proven 100% to be the wrong perspective, then any material that emerges that seemingly supports it, is kind of missing the mark. It makes sense to sympathize with Owen, to understand his reasoning. But you shouldn’t be thinking “well, actually, he had the right idea”. He didn’t and it’s important to the story that he didn’t.

Seems like your position is that it doesn’t matter. He knew enough of the story to be rightly fearful regardless. Which I don’t discount at all. I was just pointing out that we don’t really know what Owen knows. Maybe he knows everything Obi told Luke. Maybe he doesn’t. What I’m saying is that there’s a difference in degree between ‘maybe’ and ‘definitely’. 'I heard a crazy story from this guy I don’t really know or much like' OR 'a legit assassin actually showed up at my home and attacked my family!' One carries a bit more weight than the other.

It’s that the outside world is a nightmare scenario period. Luke’s dad tried to go out there and make it a better place and it got him predictably dead. If Luke goes out there to try the same thing, then he’ll end up equally as dead. There is no changing the world. All you can help is you and your own. That’s Owen Lars. That’s the rest of the galaxy. That’s why the world won’t get any better. That’s what Lucas is saying.

The Owen character represents the same sentiment explored in Star Wars over and over and over again. Are you going to be engaged? Are you going to make a difference? Or are you going to turn away? Are you going to accept the world as unalterable and go to sleep? It’s right there.

I never wrote that. The character, in his own mind, is fully justified and believes it’s the right thing to do. It’s not just because he could. The story itself though is telling us that ultimately it was the wrong thing to do, for reasons that are just as relevant today as they were in 1977.

 

That’s way more specific than just the outside world. How does he know that specifically?

Neither is it a coincidence that Owen’s demeanour changes from simply being basically obtuse to hostile when Obi-Wan Kenobi is mentioned and Luke wonders if his father knew him.

About Luke’s involvement or non-involvement specifically

Furthermore he concedes that it is just a matter of time.

Owen doesn’t need to make the case. Teenage farmboy joyriders are basically I’ll prepared to face the powerful evil doers”. That is self evident. Unless they have a special destiny.

I don’t think it is.

I never once claimed that the Lars knew that.

I don’t agree that this is conveyed.

More accurately. How long before you are forced to be engaged? Before destiny forces you to become engaged. Not long as it turns out.

Not exactly but.

They become quite defensible once the fate of Luke’s father is revealed. Doubly so after Owen and Beth were murdered. And once destiny meets Luke’s adoptive parents, Owen’s mindset becomes virtually irrelevant to what happens next except that Luke’s destiny is suddenly more crystallised by their death.

Obi-Wan: There was nothing you could have done Luke. If you had been there you would have been killed too. Ironically,the fate of Luke, the droids and the rebellion are assured by Owen’s attempts to keep Luke from being involved in matters far bigger than Luke realises and which Owen understood just well enough without knowing he full circumstances. But would destiny have taken that turn if Owen had already let Luke go off to the Imperial Naval Academy? Who knows? Seems unlikely. But by that stage it is irrelevant.

I think it’s more accurate to say that Lucas was telling us that you don’t necessarily need to change your mindset. Destiny can change it for you whether you like it or not. (I believe there is a direct quote from GL that paraphrases it. This also applies to Han Solo. Luke’s new found ideological zeal which he tries to impress on Han with a guilt trip is a direct result of what happened to his parents.

 

One of them showed up at his house. He saw that she had friends and that they’re still out there.

Yeah, he doesn’t want Luke having anything to do with this guy who would very likely poison his nephew’s mind with wild and obscene ideas like ‘helping others’.

Well, in the Luke/Han scene, it’s specifically about Han’s involvement. Luke already made up his mind.

Because it isn’t really about being shorthanded and they both know it. It’s about his unwillingness to let go.

It’s not like Luke needs parental consent or something. He could leave anytime he wants. What keeps him there is his sense of obligation. It’s that sense that Owen is knowingly appealing to. “I need you here”. Luke would never be ‘ready’ to leave in Owen’s mind. Because he doesn’t want him to leave at all.

It’s the name of the thread we’re in: “Did Owen and Beru Know?” Know what? Know Anakin is Vader. I didn’t say you were claiming anything. I said that’s the question being asked . . . by the thread.

But if Owen was able to have his way, the answer would be ‘never’. Never engage. And, in this story, that’s not an acceptable answer.

Yes. And the more specificity Owen learns about what exact monsters are lurking out there for his adopted son, the more the audience is invited to think “well, yeah, Owen was right all along then. His only real mistake was not being MORE isolated.” And now they’re missing the point of what Owen represents to the story.

“I wonder who she is. Sounds like she's in trouble. I better play back the whole thing.” That’s what sets Luke’s fate into motion - seeing someone in trouble and instinctively wanting to help. Wanting to get involved. Wanting to be engaged. It’s the reason he isn’t at the homestead when it gets burned out. An unintended consequence of doing the right thing that his uncle probably wouldn’t have approved of.

This is what he says in the commentary for ANH (Lars Family Dinner/Binary Sunset)

Spoiler: for space

This is, you know, my next movie after American Graffiti. And, in a way, the subject and everything is young people. And it's a subject that is the very same subject that American Graffiti is about. It’s about a young boy, leaving his world and going off into the unknown to a great adventure. American Graffiti focuses on that final night when that decision is made. Star Wars carries that story on to what happens after you leave.

And, in this particular case, there's a slightly more classic edge to it in that the fates are there to kind of help Luke realize that, in certain cases, you don't have choices. You know, if you choose not to fight evil, eventually it'll push you up into the wall and you just don't have a choice anymore. It's an inevitability that you can't escape from.

And, in this particular case, he's torn between what he really wants to do, which is go off and join the academy and fight in the rebellion and have excitement. But then he's also committed to helping his uncle. And to help his uncle build his farm. And his uncle raised him, he's like his father, and he has his obligations to, you know, try to put the homestead together.

It's very clear from the beginning here that Luke’s fate, even when the aunt and uncle are talking is not to stay on the farm, that’s just not in him. That his destiny lies in the grander scheme of things. Even they know that. I mean, they know it for other reasons that we don't know about yet, but he is personally torn with this challenge of trying to do his busy work at home or take on the challenge that he has been chosen for in the grander scheme of things.

His instinct is to be loyal and faithful to his aunt and uncle. But in the end, that doesn't work. Because the enemy has already made that decision for him. He doesn't really have much of a choice, but to help right the wrongs of the universe. I mean, he could have ran, I guess, but we see from the very, very beginning that is really not his intention. His intention is to become engaged, as his instinct is to become engaged, but he's suppressed by his mortal obligations.

 

We're flipping between pre Obi-Wan Kenobi series introduced Reva and post that. If you take OWK into account, it tells us Reva was acting independently and nobody else knows about Luke. And she has been neutralised thereafter.

Otherwise the saga tells us that nobody is out there looking for Luke.

That's a massive leap. At no point is it suggested that Owen thinks that helping others is a wild and obscene or poisonous idea. But since his father was in fact a Jedi knight, and he died in tragic history altering circumstances which still affect the galaxy decades later, it's totally credible that Owen would fear Luke following the same destiny.

Luke had his mind made up for him when he discovered what really happened to his dad and what just happened to his adoptive parents. It's personal for Luke.

That's not conveyed at all.

Because he's just a kid.

But it's been completely absent from our conversation and I've expressly addressed your preference for Owen's actions to be just to selfish self interest and not to have any other context which makes it more defensible or condonable.

That condemns every other person on the galaxy, whom the rebels are fighting for, for not getting involved. Like I said, the question is not will you or won't you get involved. It's how much are you going to accept before get involved.

But if Owen had any inkling that the Empire and the man who killed Anakin were hunting the two droids he just bought do you not think he would have thought, this is it. Time to reach out to Obi-Wan to at least get Luke out of here before they are discovered?

No it isn't. Luke's going to take R2 and have his memory raised after Owen is horrified when the spectre of Obi-Wan (and Anakin and Vader) is raised by the partial message. It's R2 going AWOL that sets Luke's story in motion. The partial message was just a ruse by R2 to get the restraining bolt off. Luke's curious to read the message after that If R2 didn't need to have the bolt removed and didn't need to play part of the message, the story would remain the same. What it does though is prompt the screenplay to provide more context, Thus we get a hint of the revelations about Kenobi, and Luke's father that are about to come.


We cannot ignore the fact that Owen is angry about Obi-Wan one moment, then just slightly obtuse the next moment about Luke's plans to leave and go to flying school earlier than has seemingly already been discussed. They are two separate issues. If the general fear of the danger of the outside world were Owen's motivation then there would be no difference in his attitude during either of these conversations.

I don't know where you get this Luke wanting to help others. He wants to be a pilot like his friends. In the imperial naval academy. A) because he's a keen pilot b) because his friends have done it and c) because it will get him off the farm and Tatooine. (The outside world is far more attractive to Luke than Tatooine is. At no point does Owen actually try to disabuse him of that notion though, which is odd considering your theory that this is Owen's primary motivation). Luke's ambitions are all about himself at that point.

It's only once he learns of his father's Jedi career that Luke contemplates and even greater vocation and destiny than just indulging his passion and proving his ability at piloting.

 

Memory erased. Not raised.


TLDR: In A New Hope, there is a clear line between ordinary everyday parental reluctance to let a child emancipate before the child or the parent is ready, and Owen's dread at Luke being drawn into his father's back story and its tragic end, to which Obi Wan is the last remaining link.

One of them is benign and unremarkable. The other (fate/destiny) makes the first one irrelevant.

I don't think I could perceive Owen's actions to be less condonable or defensible without it also making his and Beru's death less tragic and sad. It would make it more just like an ironic means to an end. Too bad for them, but the fight for freedom of the galaxy can't be held back by Owen's mindset about letting his nephew go to naval academy sooner rather than later.

 

Which is what I liked about Beru; she quietly pointed out that Luke would never be a farmer, and trying to clip his wings was both pointless and causing him to start to lose respect for his surrogate father. At the end of the day, once your children are grown it's entirely up to them as to what they want to do with their lives.

 

I brought the events of the Kenobi show up in my first post in direct relevance to this thread’s topic. I was purposely making a connection to my reception of what the Owen character knows and doesn’t know. You wanted to narrow the focus to better suit your perspective. That’s fine, but that’s what this “flipping” is about.

I’m looking at it from the Owen character’s perspective. I’m putting myself in HIS position. If a murderous psychopath, who was part of a bigger club of murderous psychopaths, showed up on my front lawn to kill my kid one day, I wouldn’t be comforted by someone (who I don’t really like or trust) assuring me it was only an isolated incident.

There ARE more of them out there. They ARE looking for kids like mine. Any one of them could show up at any moment and there’s absolutely nothing I can do to stop them or keep my child safe. There are NO assurances Obi-Wan can give to guarantee that won’t happen. I’d have every reason to lock that kid up and never let them meet another stranger again. I don’t get what you don’t understand about that.

Owen Lars hasn’t watched these movies.

“He feared you might follow old Obi-Wan on some damn-fool idealistic crusade like your father did.” “Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi.” “I need your help, Luke. She needs your help.” “I can't get involved.” “That's your uncle talking.”

“The Jedi knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the old Republic.” Owen was afraid of Luke risking his own safety in order to help others like his father did. That’s why he doesn’t want him tangled up with Obi-Wan. He’d try to encourage those dangerous tendencies in Luke. Which is exactly what happens. “You must learn the ways of the Force if you’re to come with me to Alderaan.”

I’m not sure what you’re exactly getting at here. I compared the conflicting ideologies between Luke/Han with the conflict between Obi-Wan/Owen and how they reflect the larger themes of involvement and noninvolvement. Han’s perspective was wrong with respect to the morality of the story and so was Owen’s. Luke starts off in Owen’s camp and ends up in Obi-Wan’s. It’s part of his arc toward actualization. Of course it was personal. What else could it be?

So you think 19 year old Luke is wanting his daddy to sign his permission slip? Luke is an adult. The equivalence Lucas struck was ‘going off to college’. The choice was his to make. Then fate stepped in and made it for him.

And, in Owen’s eyes, he’ll ALWAYS be a kid. But he’s not. He’s a young adult and he’s on the cusp of venturing out into the larger world like everyone else. “Most of his friends have gone.”

I’ve been very clear on this from my first post. The philosophy Owen promotes of noninvolvement is at odds with the moral of the story. His desire to shield his nephew from the larger world, to keep him from helping others, is the wrong mindset to have in that regard. It IS defensible. It IS understandable. But only so far. We should sympathize with his ethos. We should not approve of his ethos. We shouldn’t condone it. ‘I get where you’re coming from, Owen. But it’s not OK.’

The more events that transpire though, that seemingly validate his ethos, the further I see us get from the original idea that Owen was wrong. When the story was that Obi-Wan told Owen some version of the events of what happened to Luke’s dad, that’s one thing. Owen can decide whether to believe that or not. Maybe this Kenobi jerk is telling the truth about these Jedi weirdos, maybe he’s not. All he knows for sure is that Luke’s dad isn’t around anymore and it’s because he idiotically risked his life to help some strangers instead of looking after his own family.

When there are real killers showing up at his house to get at his nephew, that’s something completely different. It’s no longer some vague threat sitting out there somewhere that this wacko wizard told him about. It’s a three-dimensional horror show that could happen anytime he lets his guard down for a second.

Now Owen has a WAAAY bigger leg to stand on for keeping isolated. And that doesn’t sit all that well with me when the intended message is ‘stronger together’.

In the since that it judges them for not doing more to help others, yes. Remaining isolated and alone and allowing the Empire to flourish. It connects with the beginning sentiment of TPM, “…the biggest problem in this universe is nobody helps each other.” And it carries straight through to TROS, “They win by making you think you're alone.” We have a duty to one another to help one another.

A distinction without a difference.

I don’t know. I could see it go either way. What I do know is that Obi-Wan moved to the other side of a hostile desert after the greatest threat to Luke’s life was narrowly averted. If he saw Kenobi as an escape hatch, you’d think Owen would want Obi closer by after that, not further away. But hey.

Which can only happen if Luke reacts to someone’s literal plea for help. “Sounds like she's in trouble.” That’s not morbid curiosity. That’s concern. Luke cares about others. For good or ill, that’s the defining attribute that compels his actions from beginning to end.

They aren’t the same exact thing. They’re two expressions of the same idea. The same theme. They both concern Luke leaving the safety of Owen’s influence. Owen is resistant to both. The academy is something Owen feels comfortable he has sorted. Obi-Wan is a wildcard he knows he can’t control. One is immediate. One is distant. He reacts stronger to the immediate threat than the distant one.

Like I said, it’s the defining attribute that compels his actions. It’s why he wants to rescue Leia. It’s why we wants to rescue Han. It’s why he wants to rescue his father. It’s why he wants to rescue the whole galaxy. It’s what leads him down into the dark side and then what brings him back out of it. Luke naturally cares about others and wants to help them. That’s his role in the story: the compassionate hero.

Deleted scenes aren’t canon, so feel free to toss this out, but I feel it might be enlightening regarding the Luke character’s mindset and what he’s really after. This is the transcript for his exchange with Biggs in the removed Tosche Station scene.

Spoiler: length

BIGGS: Luke. I didn't come back just to say goodbye. I shouldn't tell you this, but you're the only one I can trust. See, I may never come back and I just want someone to know.
LUKE: What are you talking about?
BIGGS: I made some friends at the Academy. When our frigate leaves for one of the central systems, we're gonna jump ship and join the Alliance.
LUKE: The Rebellion?
...
BIGGS: My friend has a friend on Bestine who might help us make contact.
LUKE: You're crazy. You can wander around forever trying to find them.
BIGGS: I know it's a long shot, but if I don't find them, I'll do what I can on my own. It's what we always talked about, Luke. I'm not gonna wait around for the Empire to draft me into service. The Rebellion is spreading, and I wanna be on the side I believe in.
LUKE: Yeah, meanwhile, I'm stuck here.
BIGGS: You'll get your chance to get off this rock. You're going to the Academy next term, are you?
LUKE: Not likely. I had to cancel my application.
BIGGS: What for?
LUKE: My uncle needs me.
BIGGS: Aw!
LUKE: No, I'm serious. The Sand People have been getting really crazy. They've even raided the outskirts of Anchorhead.
BIGGS: Come on, Luke. Your uncle could hold off a whole colony of Sand People with one blaster.
LUKE: I know. But we've got almost enough vaporators to make the place pay off. I have to stay one more season. I can't leave him now.
BIGGS: What good's all your uncle's work if the Empire takes it over? You know they've already started to nationalize commerce in the central systems? It won't be long before your uncle's just a tenant. Slaving for the greater glory of the Empire.
LUKE: No, that's not gonna happen here. You said yourself the Empire won't even mess with this old rock.
BIGGS: Things can change.
LUKE: I wish I was going. Are you gonna be around long?
BIGGS: No. Leaving in the morning.
LUKE: Well, I guess I won't see you.
BIGGS: Maybe someday. I'll keep a look out.
LUKE: Yeah. I'll be at the Academy next season, and then, who knows? I won't be drafted into the Imperial Starfleet, that's for sure. Well, take it easy, buddy. You'll always be the best friend I've ever had.
BIGGS: So long, Luke.

Again, deleted scenes don’t count, but it’s pretty clear what Lucas wanted in Luke’s heart and mind. He was always after a greater purpose and directed by a sense of duty. It wasn’t that one just magically landed in his lap.

 

But your position is that the events of OWK undermines your preference for Owen to just be generally opposed to involvement in the outside world and nothing to do with specific events or people in the back story. Which Reva’s presence represents.

Like Luke’s father got involved. And look what it did to him. And to his wife. And to his children. And Anakin wa already a Jedi knight when he was Luke’s age. Not just a farmboy joyrider.

What happened to Anakin wasn’t just because the outside world was unsafe.

That’s not the moral of the story. The moral is that for some people, involvement is their destiny whether they like it not.

There is a difference. That’s why you can’t condemn everybody for their non involvement. The Jedi council were quite keen on non involvement at times come to think of it. Their success or otherwise at choosing the correct amount or timing of their involvement or non-involvement played a big part in their downfall. It’s quite a complex issue.

There’s a big difference between being naturally curious about the rest of a message that appears to be a distress call (One that’s addressed to a person Luke thinks he might know, incidentally. Notice that R2 plays the message, but only the part mentioning Obi Wan, once Luke announces that his name is Skywalker.) and feeling obligated or equipped to do anything about it.

Are we to assume that if Luke saw the whole message the first time that he wouldn’t have been daunted enough to state that he can’t get involved like he does when he eventually hears about Leia’s plight in the presence of Obi Wan?

Notice too how Luke doesn’t tell Owen that the message was a distress call. So Owen is not reacting to anything to do with the involvement in the outside world. (Doesn’t even know or care where the droids came from.) But he does react angrily to Luke being curious about Obi Wan and his possible connection to Luke’s father.

Obi-Wan represents the past and past tragedies. Not just involvement in the outside world. Obi Wan is not involved and was not going to be involved in the outside world until his past turned up on his doorstep.

 

No. What I wrote was MORE general and LESS specific. Not “just” or “nothing”. Owen being told by Obi-Wan that some guy named Darth Vader killed Luke’s dad is LESS specific than telling him Luke’s dad IS Darth Vader. And exponentially less specific than him being first-hand terrorized by someone who works for Darth Vader.

The more credible the threat, the more justified Owen is in pushing his isolationist agenda on Luke. But ultimately, that’s the agenda Luke needs to break away from in order to be the hero of the story. It’s counterproductive to the underline messaging. United, we stand. Divided, we fall.

Anakin went off to go help people in need - a “damn-fool idealistic crusade”. He needlessly put himself out there and got killed. Owen sees that same drive in Luke. That same desire to help others in need. He’s afraid it will lead him to that same end.

If Luke puts himself out there, he’s going to follow his heart and it’s going to get him killed too. Owen is intentionally discouraging Luke from getting involved because of this fear. That’s the significance of Obi-Wan’s line “That's your uncle talking.” Obi-Wan knows “I can't get involved” is not who Luke truly is. It's an attitude that Owen tried to sell him on.

I feel like you’re vastly overestimating just how much blue-collar joe, Owen Lars, has invested in the finer intricacies of Jedi Knighthood. To me, he’s in the same school as Han on this topic. “It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense.” The Jedi were all a bunch of self-important do-gooders that got themselves done in. Because the world is awful and that’s what happens when you don’t stick to your own.

Luke just says the basic thesis of the story out loud. “Come on. Why don't you take a look around? You know what's about to happen, what they're up against. They could use a good pilot like you. You're turning your back on them.” People that CAN help, SHOULD help. It isn’t Han’s “destiny” to help the Rebellion in their most desperate hour. That’s not Luke’s argument. Nobody forced Han into his action. He simply chose to stop being a self-centered jerk-wad and help. Message: Han can do it and you can too.

“Sounds like she's in trouble.” Hmm, yes, how very interesting. I’m quite curious about this young woman who’s begging for help. This girl’s apparent peril is ever so enticing to my juvenile sense of inquisitiveness. My, what a curio indeed.

Luke doesn’t say his last name until he’s freeing Leia from her cell.

Well, there’s some specious reasoning. Luke reacted to a stranger’s plea for help. That’s the fact of the matter. That reaction then resulted in everything that happened afterward, including Luke saving the whole galaxy. If he simply ignores that stranger’s plea for help, and goes about his day, then the galaxy is doomed because of it. That IS the causal chain of events. You want to assign a characteristic to our hero for it other than concern? Hey, go for it.

All that happens prior to that is Luke suggesting the droids might have been stolen. Which, yeah, I don’t think Owen would be particularly shocked to learn that the gear he bought off the back of a truck wasn’t entirely on the up and up.

Yeah, I imagine his name ALSO carries a lot of baggage with it too . . . in addition to representing a dangerous element that could influence his nephew.

Unless he believes that what the world needs most is Luke Skywalker. But that’s conjecture.