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Do people really consider the stuff canon?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Rebels' started by kuatorises, Feb 2, 2018.

  1. kuatorises

    kuatorises Clone Commander

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    Before some uptight keeper of all fandom type tries to tell me these cartoons are “official canon”, I do have to say that I am a fan of the comics (not totally up to date, so no spoilers please) and I have read and enjoyed some books in the past. I’m not against expanded universe type of stuff.

    And secondly, no they’re not. They tell you that they are to ease your inner OCD and get you to watch, but these shows, comic books, video games, books, etc. are not canon. They clearly do not exist in sync with the movies. Anakin never had an apprentice, Darth Maul did not survive, and Revenge of the Sith was the first time Dooku and Anakin bought since their previous encounter.

    My question is, does anyone actually takes this stuff seriously? I enjoy some of it, but most of it except the movies count to me.
     
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  2. rvtv

    rvtv Rebelscum

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    I personally take the clone wars seriously and technically Im pretty sure its official canon so.... On the other hand it is very hard to believe that the rebellion actually came from the characters in rebels. It's almost as if the show is about a band of people who just kinda don't like the empire and I guess you could say "Rebel" against them. All I know is that the clone wars and rebels and not legends but maybe not official canon. Plus, to answer your question yes I do take this stuff pretty seriously. Also the clone wars was just kinda supposed to be adventures and backstory of things that happened during the clone wars.
     
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  3. Oursourced

    Oursourced Rebelscum

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    I mean, if you want to go off of what George Lucas considers canon, it would be the six movies he was directly involved in and The Clone Wars, which he was also directly involved in. Even besides that though, I take the characters and the stories those shows, books, and movies gave me over minor idiosyncrasies.
     
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  4. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi Commander

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    I actually think this is a clever way of doing multimedia.

    For example, let me explain:

    Darth Maul "dies" in The Phantom Menace, yes. And as far as a casual moviegoer is concerned, that's the end of the story. But a fan of The Clone Wars and Rebels gets the opportunity to explore this interesting character's life further in that media.

    That's a lot better than the alternative, which is tying major events to the multimedia. For instance, imagine this: At the end of The Force Awakens, we see Rey handing Luke the lightsaber on Ach-To. Imagine that the subsequent events are covered in a comic, and by the time The Last Jedi comes around the first scene is Luke and Rey boarding Snoke's ship to fight the First Order. A huge chunk of the audience would've missed vital details!


    By introducing stuff like Maul's rise to power again, Ahsoka's training, and Ezra's assistance in rescuing Mon Mothma, we can see stuff in the multimedia that actually matters (so not just random people doing random things) without drawing away from the movies.

    So Maul did rise again, he just didn't really have an effect on the plot of The Revenge of the Sith. Anakin did have a padawan, but she was exiled from the Jedi before Palpatine was abducted. Ezra did have a major role in founding the Rebellion, and... well, we don't really know how that ends yet.

    Yet, these are minor details that moviegoers don't need to concern themselves with. They're supplementary. So if you don't want to concern yourself with them, that's totally fine. They're just additional details, like the specifics of hyperdeive classes or the etiquette of wookie culture. But they're definitely canon.
     
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  5. Ruralfarmboy

    Ruralfarmboy Jedi General

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    I would offer ya this take -

    The Keeper of the Holocron would tell ya that they are.
    The films, the two shows, the books (film novelizarions- so long as they don't contradict) and the comics.

    Now there's this - personal 'head' canon.
    Also, yeah a Great Lot of all of that does exist toying stories together.
    If some works for ya and some other don't ? That's still a Great thing, so it is.
    Yeah, there be folks that do indeed take it serious.
    Adults and kids alike.

    Me? I loved Clone Wars.
    Rebels ? ...mm?? It's ok. To me.
    I Love the books (all but one or two).
    I don't follow the comics.

    @rvtv this particular group of rebels ("Rebels") is but one small cell of the growing Rebellion. The only thing they began, was their own cell.

    Hope I was some kinda help.
    I Know I Was but one of Many opinions.
     
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  6. rvtv

    rvtv Rebelscum

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    Okay that makes sense. I also agree about your opinions on rebels and clone wars. Also I think the star wars books are pretty cool.
     
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  7. Shira

    Shira Rebelscum

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    Personally, I take and throw out what I like vs. don't and I think that's the way everyone should do it. I liked the majority of Rebels until they made it TCW 2.0 so after a certain point I don't consider it canon. There are a lot of aspects in TCW that I enjoyed. For instance, a lot of growth on Anakin and Obi-Wan's part. But then they screwed over Quinlan Vos' character and I was enraged. So I take his Legends stuff as canon. That's what headcanon is for lol. I don't know why people make such a big deal about it. Let people enjoy what they enjoy and you can enjoy what you do. There doesn't have to be this big to-do and site-wide fights just because you don't agree on a certain aspect of canon vs. headcanon.
     
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  8. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    I do. The Clone Wars actually made me appreciate what Lucas was trying to do with the prequels, which was not previously the case. I like to joke that The Clone Wars are my prequels. I enjoy both what The Clone Wars and Rebels did to expand the Force and Rebels in particular for showing us the formation of a larger Rebellion. Both shows gave us some great characters - like Ahsoka or Kanan.

    I am also the book and comic reader. And while I started lately to pick and choose mainly due to the lack of time, I appreciate the connectivity and little things that reward you with if you follow the new canon. For example, Yoda's scene in The Last Jedi shows the fact that Force Ghosts continue learning even after death as well as acquiring new powers, something Obi-Wan hinted at in A New Hope ("More powerful than you can possibly imagine") and further elaborated in the story Master and Apprentice by Claudia Gray (From A certain Point of View anthology) where it was revealed that Qui-Gon learned to manifest himself as nearly corporeal Force Ghost after being able to manifest as the voice alone.

    Also, the Force Projection Luke uses in TLJ has appeared for the first time in Rebels.

    So not only do I consider them canon, I greatly enjoy how they expand the world and the lore.
     
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  9. Jayardia

    Jayardia Rebel Commander

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    Thank you so much for opening this door of conversation.

    I find the notion of “canon” and its derivatives extraordinarily interesting- especially within a subject that ALL parties involved presumably regard as fiction. (As opposed to, let’s say, biblical/history accounts which may have varying views on how “real” the subject actually is.)

    Once the purely fictional aspect of the subject is mutually acknowledged, (which, in this case, is obviously acknowledged without individual confirmation) -the stakes involved within arguments of levels of canon are (hopefully) recognized as fairly low...or simply negligible.

    Thus, superficially, one reasonable answer to the OP question could be “Who cares?” ... *but* we aren’t having this discussion on twitter or Facebook, ...we’re having it in a venue of collective “greater-than-moderate fans of the Star Wars universe”. Thus the scope of the question is granted more validity within the group.

    So, with that needlessly wordy obviousness out of the way, here we are-
    ...
    I’m very much with LadyMusashi on this one, though my view may differ in details– for myself, ‘The Clone Wars’ was a much needed palliative for the prequels. It (overall) enriched the storyline and “fleshed out” an oft referred, major event in the SWU. And in a similar fashion, I appreciate ‘Rebels’ for its expansion of perspective regarding the “cell growth” of the rebellion.

    There are even (few) moments of connectivity gleaned from the infamous “Christmas Special” that sit comfortably in my own head canon.

    It’s entirely all right for each of us to pick and choose for the sake of personal satisfaction- it is of literally no consequence whatsoever except for the pleasure of cheerful debate.
    ...
    And, as we’ve all seen- “Official Canon” (technically a redundant phrase) - is subject to change, and although I don’t suppose “they” will ever be whimsical about it, I suspect we may see another shift within the span of a few decades.
     
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  10. SKB

    SKB Force Sensitive

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    They are canon, because canon literally means "a genuine collection of associated books".

    Books, cartoons, music, shoes. Or whatever. Canon.

    Plus, they've got Star Wars branding and copyrighting all over them. So yeah, canon.
     
    #10 SKB, Feb 3, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
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  11. Trevor

    Trevor Protector of the Jedi
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    Absolutely yes, and he who keeps it all in line will also tell you that they are, and be final about it.

    With that being said; When TCW (the movie) was first announced, I laughed...c'mon....a Star Wars Cartoon MOVIE??? In fact, I immediately dismissed it as something that none other than a 9 year old would enjoy, and I was wrong.

    As TCW (the series) aired, it gave some great backstory to TGFFA and widened our field of view and understanding of Anakin, and then came Rebels. While a lot of it is filled with cartoon comedy and antics, I watch it every week without fail.

    @LadyMusashi (above) hit it directly on the head with the statement that TCW were in a way her prequels, and I (never realizing it until just now), in a way have to agree with her.

    Now I guess that if one wanted to just pick and choose which material that they wanted to mark as canon and which isn't, they're free to, but it's still canon...all of it.
     
    #11 Trevor, Feb 3, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
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  12. Legend66

    Legend66 Rebelscum

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    I consider it canon.

    Some parts of Rebels and The Clone wars were silly but both those shows helped flesh out the movies even more and in some instances helped me enjoy them alot more than when i oringally watched them.

    When Revenge of the Sith came out i was dissapointed that we only saw the tail end of a war that was meant to be epic and span over a few years.

    For me the Clone wars cartoon did:

    - Flesh out the relationship the Jedi had with the clone troopers during the long campaigns.
    - Gives more impact during the order 66 part when they turn on the jedi.
    - Gives us an insight as to how Anakin became revered as an excellent pilot and solider in the war.
    - Took us to all these different planets to show us how grand the galaxy really was.
     
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  13. SithSorcererofdeath

    SithSorcererofdeath Rebel Official

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    Time to say something blasphemous...Canon is SUBJECTIVE.
     
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  14. Pawek_13

    Pawek_13 Jedi General

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    BURN HIM ALIVE!!!!!1qq1!@3!E@12132!#@12!#@

    Great point. Also, another thought - the "canonicity" (or lack thereof) of a piece content should not affect your enjoyment of this content.
     
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  15. kuatorises

    kuatorises Clone Commander

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    That's because you know it really didn't.
     
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  16. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi Commander

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    I guess you have to consider this, too- take the current canon run of Star Wars comics, for example.

    Here's what we know from the films- a few years passed between Yavin and Hoth, during which time Luke and the gang continued to fight with the Rebellion.

    What exactly were they doing during those fights? The simply answer, and the only answer needed for the films is: Rebel stuff.

    If you want the specifics, read the comics and the other media.

    For example- a lot of people dislike Doctor Aphra. Does she somehow invalidate the current canon? No, of course not! Her stories might be a little kooky at times, but she's a character that Luke and the gang can interact with during their conflict between ANH and ESB. They weren't just sitting on their hands the whole time- if not Aphra, we'd just have some other character filling her place.

    If you aren't into it, don't read it and just be happy that you can still just know they were doing "rebel stuff".

    However, I do disagree with this:

    Headcanon, as described, is totally subjective, and especially valid when dealing with fictional works. But canon itself is a pretty subjective ruling. That's pretty much the point of it.

    edit: no idea why that Rogue Squadron screenshot showed up on this post :p
     

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  17. kuatorises

    kuatorises Clone Commander

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    I don't think there's anything wrong with this statement are all, but when I have an issue with is when I'm having a conversation about one of the movies and some nerd chimes in with some tidbit about a cartoon, book, or comic book.. If were talking about how Darth Maul should have lived and remained the villain throughout the Prequels, don't come back at me with some nonsense about The Clone Wars.
     
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  18. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi Commander

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    Where do you draw the line at "nonsense"? If anything, that seems subjective.
     
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  19. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    I don't take Clone Wars and Rebels very seriously. I am also not really a fan of the distinction between canon and legends. It's created for hollistic completionists who see Star Wars as history and not as a collection of stories. For instance, I only consider the movies to be the real narrative universe as it is presented to me. I read, watch and experience all the other stuff just for fun and really don't really feel offended when some things change. The old EU was in flux constantly and hardly consistant. That still is the case with the new EU.
     
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  20. kuatorises

    kuatorises Clone Commander

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    The movies of course.
     
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