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Has Rian 'forced' the destiny's of Rey and Kylo

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by Darth Chewie, Mar 10, 2018.

  1. Darth Chewie

    Darth Chewie Rebel Official

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    Simple thread. Throughout Rian's movie, it was mentioned that when one side of the force grows strong, the other side rises to meet it, continuing the constant struggle of good vs evil, that Maz eludes to in TFA.

    Now, one can easily argue that regardless of the fates of Rey and Kylo, there will always be "the next ones", or extremely force sensitive individuals that the Force will choose to do it's bidding. But anyway, back to my point. Will we get a happy ending with Rey being the Hero by destroying Kylo who simply refuses to see the error of his ways and convictions? Or even perhaps she even becomes the hero by redeeming him?

    OR, do we see Rey, through out the film slowly come to the realization that she too is the problem. That for as long as someone as strong in the force as her exist, there will be dark to meet it, just like there was light to meet the darkness raising in Kylo. In other words balance, as Rey saw it on Ach-to. But what if she comes to her own conclusion that her final showdown with Ben must conclude with both of their deaths. That she must sacrifice herself in destroying him, in order to bring a true balance to the force and the galxay. What if her sole purpose was to end the Skywalker line (at least the Skywalker line that thinks it needs to rule the galaxy by force in order to save it), and when she achieves that, she too must die. That death could perhaps could come at the hands of the Force itself. Rey simply disappears and become one with the force.

    Anyway, I'm full of crap, and don't what I'm talking about half the time, so go easy on me eh! - Lol
     
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  2. Sparafucile

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    I think it demystifies the Force to some extent.

    If light always meets dark and dark light, then we kind of lose the impetus on our characters to choose a path, because the Force will provide, sooner or later. It's already been established by the ST that training is no longer a fundamental part of being a Force user. If you lack training, that's fine, the Force will balance things out either through you or someone else. So basically escape evil until the Force decides enough is enough and zaps someone with a power up.

    Your idea is neat, I wouldn't mind seeing something like that in 9. I have my doubts that they'll have the stomach to kill off Rey though. Luke and Anakin don't die at the end of their respective trilogies, Anakin only once he's the big bad. I don't see them ending this one with the first female heroine giving her life. Just the loss in toy sales alone would discourage this to no end. I think there'd also be a fear of losing the young girls they've gotten on board so far.
     
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  3. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    or instead of death, they realize that they have to split the power structure in the galaxy to keep it balanced. he remains Supreme Leader of his half and she becomes the "ruler" of her half. they enter a cold war that continues for the rest of their lives, but at least maintains tenuous peace (for the most part)?
     
    #3 FN-3263827, Mar 10, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2018
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  4. Chise

    Chise Rebel Official

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    If Snoke is right every "win" of one side over the other will always generate the same outcome in another iteration: the rise of the champion of the side that was previously vanquished. So obviously killing eachother is not the solution.
    The rise of the 2 champions, though, will allways cause the innevitable confrotation.
    So how can the champion of the light and the champion of the dark maintain the balance? Forever fighting? Or...completing eachother?
     
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  5. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    Or maybe, just maybe, the story group will return to GL's original idea if wut balance is and have the light destroy the dark once & 4 all.
     
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  6. nightangel

    nightangel Rebel Official

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    This sounds really as a very dark ending, but I prefer it instead of a redeemed Kylo who lives happily after it with wife and kids.
     
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  7. BobRoss

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    Balance can go two ways a) there are no more lightside or darkside users or b) everyone uses the force, some for good, some for bad. I feel that b) is the direction they are going for since one of the core ideas of TLJ is that everyone can be a hero and usse the force (broomboy being an example). I'm not a fan of neither a) nor b). I don't want the galaxy to be devoid of any forceusers nor do I want it to be like space Hogwarts. But apparently being inclusive and making everyone feel super special is important to the new SW canon.

    The way I think of this could be summed up in this video:
     
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  8. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    Or maybe they may consider merging the two philosophies (the dark and the light) together and both Kylo and Rey become grey. I don't know how that would play out. Kylo would have to abandon and combat the first order for starters and Rey perhaps would need to become more critical of the resistance and the republic. It would mean the survival of both probably keeping each other and the galaxy in check.

    Obviously all this would happen post redemption, and a huge operatic show down in which kylo would try to sacrify himself and fail, saved probably by Rey who would be full of compassion.... I can already see this theory of mine would be some fans’ worse nightmare lol

    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 11, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 11, 2018 ---
    Actually, this is similar to what I just said. Just read it now.
     
    #8 Kylocity, Mar 11, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2018
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  9. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    THIS, THIS, This is 1 of the main reasons i ha......uhhh......strongly dislike Disney's spin on the Force.
     
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  10. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    There is a c) option: if light and dark are not necessarily associated with good and bad respectively, as it has been done before. The light has the qualities of compassion and fairness, the dark side, of ambition and purpose. The light could always temper the flaws of the dark, and the dark could force the light to be more driven and less vulnerable. Just a thought.
     
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  11. Trev

    Trev Rebel Official

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    I actually think your idea of Rey (the light side) sacrificing herself to defeat Kylo Ren (the dark side) to be extremely intriguing. I think it would be a really cool approach to the Force. I do think their choice for Rey to not be a Skywalker will ultimately allow her to be the character that ends the Skywalker storyline, being that Kylo will most likely be the only living Skywalker in Episode IX (assuming they kill off Leia).

    But, that being said, I find it highly unlikely that they’ll kill off Rey in Episode IX. I just can’t see Kathleen Kennedy ever getting behind that idea because she clearly wants Rey’s story to go beyond these films.

    I don’t think either character’s destiny is necessarily set in stone. Rey is definitely more likely to survive just because I’m 100% positive they’re not killing her off, but I still think anything is possible in these films in terms of how they go about redeeming (or not redeeming) Kylo and what his relationship with Rey ends up being.
     
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  12. p03

    p03 Human/Cyborg Relations

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    both ending up on a funeral pyre would be fitting rather than playing happy families who are changing, cleaning baby cherubs bottoms all the time with a pet mollusk for company. źzzzz.

    Talk about the words nihilistic and stagnant :rolleyes:
     
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  13. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    After losing Han, Leia, and Luke in this series I don't think we'll lose one of the main characters. Disney/Lucasfilm need to preserve some threads to this saga so they can revisit it later.

    The force is still very much George Lucas's thing. Elements for The Last Jedi came from stuff developed for the Clone Wars by Lucas. The documentary also showed the George still has a little to say about things even if he's not in charge.
     
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  14. Force238

    Force238 Rebel Commander

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    It depends on whether Lucasfilm subscribes to the static view of balance or the dynamic view of balance. If it's the static view, then it makes sense for both Kylo and Rey to die at the end of ST.

    However, in the dynamic (or Taoist) view, the balance of opposites is achieved over a complete cycle, not at a particular instant. For example, in the Taoist view, yang is dominant during the day or during the summer, while yin is dominant during the night or during winter. So yin and yang only balance each other over a complete daily cycle or over a complete annual cycle. Similarly, the light side was dominant during the Old Jedi Order, the dark side was dominant during the Empire, followed by Luke's Jedi Order, followed by the First Order, then Rey / broom boy ..., and so forth. Of course, the Old Jedi Order prevailed for a very long time compare to the others, and perhaps Anakin restored the balance in part by helping to destroy the Old Jedi Order? Anyway, if Lucasfilm subscribes to the dynamic view, then Rey can survive and the light side can prevail at the end of the ST.
     
    #14 Force238, Mar 17, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2018
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  15. Madmartigan

    Madmartigan Rebel Official

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    I would love to see Rey entering the dark side and Kylo going back to the light (yestarday I saw the film again and still think it's a strong possibility, judging their dialogs). I think the register, possibilities and acting skills from Daisy are enormous (as Adam's) and both could give diferent visions of the force through their characters we have not seen yet.
    I don't know which destiny will have their characters. At this point I don't think they will kill one of them. I see both too much important to create a New Order or some kind of a new balance. Probably they survive both, or they kill both.
    Interesting where will go those characters, for me, one of the strongest points of this trilogy. With other actors, TLJ could have been much much worse. Their job is incredible.
     
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  16. Trev

    Trev Rebel Official

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    I agree—the only main character whose fate is really up in the air seems to be Kylo Ren, just because he’s the main villain. But, at the end of the day, he’s a Skywalker by blood and he’s the son of two of the most beloved heroes in cinematic history. I totally see them revisiting this story later, but I hope they don’t. The longer they continue the story, the greater the risk of ruining it.

    I also think you’re right about George Lucas. I believe I read that after Disney acquired Lucasfilm, he agreed to stay on as a creative consultant of some sorts. Ultimately, I think it’s ironic that so many people are complaining about how these films would disappoint George when he still has some say in it. I think Mark Hamill even said that the idea of Luke and Rey’s relationship as master and apprentice was initially George’s idea for The Force Awakens anyways.
     
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  17. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    In the Director and the Jedi documentary there's a moment when Rian is told that George is calling him on the phone. I don't think George is too involved, but his ideas about the force and lore are still his. I don't think anyone is going to make major changes to that stuff without his approval. Kennedy has mentioned it as well that there are some force/training things he still has her ear.
     
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  18. Sparafucile

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    I'd love to see this too. It would be great seeing Poe and Finn wrestling with making nice with Kylo while having to go after Rey.

    Sadly, I sincerely doubt they'd go this way. The whole marketing strategy is to make Rey the hero so girls come to watch. Turning her to the dark side would destroy that hero (but make the character infinitely more interesting) and I simply don't think KK would subscribe to that.

    I agree that through their dialogue there's room for it, but I just don't see it happening.

    However, if it did, that would kill any Mary Sue talk once and for all. It would give a reason why she was propped up so high in the first two movies.
     
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  19. Trev

    Trev Rebel Official

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    I’m glad George still has a say in stuff like that. At the end of the day, a lot of the mystical ideas about the Force that are popping up in the new canon are things that were created by George Lucas, such as the Mortis arc from The Clone Wars (and eventually Rebels). For the time being, I think it’s important that they still talk to him about that stuff to ensure that the new films aren’t detrimental to George’s vision of the Force and what it represents.
     
  20. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    One of the featurettes Rian discusses "the force" and he says something very George like. He says that the force isn't a superpower. Or at least it shouldn't be viewed that way. That sounded very much like a George thing to say. I view the Jedi very much like the mythology of Gandalf in the Lord of the Rings. The Jedi are more like guardians than warriors.
     
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