How do you interpret the prophecy of the chosen one

The Jedi and the Sith are not the Force though, they are merely able to manipulate it more than others.
It isn't about X numbers of Sith or Jedi. The balance comes down to the state of play in the galaxy.
When the Sith are around, they spread evil everywhere thus the imbalance begins.
The Jedi simply seek to maintain the balance (which is more about a healthy leaning towards the light rather than an absolute parity between light an dark - like how one would view a "balanced diet"). They do this by destroying the Sith or anyone else that is spreading evil.

Anakin being the chosen one was said to bring balance to the Force. All that means is that he would destroy the person or persons that were spreading evil everywhere. That was the Sith. And he did destroy them - so the prophecy was correct.

Anyone can create imbalance if they have a big enough influence. Even a non-Force user. It's not about what personal power they use but how they impact on life in the galaxy which in turns creates the Force itself of course. It is best to see the Force as the "collective consciousness" of the galaxy. When evil is everywhere this consciousness is desires balance - peace, harmony. Harmony can only be reached once this evil power that spreads the Dark Side is destroyed.

 

Great post, can I ask you a question?
At the end of the prequels its pretty well established the Jedi had become corrupted, Mace Windu as a high ranking Jedi was attempting to kill suspects without trial, the Jedi as a collective could no longer sense the Sith and Yoda staying in hiding rather then reforming the Jedi seems an acknowledgement of his awareness of these failings. Do you think its an important point George is making that people/groups can start out with pure intentions but become corrupted over time?

Its also a noteworthy point that Anakin destroyed the Jedi.

 

Thanks! I think it's clear the Jedi became something they shouldn't have. I don't think it's fair to level too much blame on them for this - they'd successfully maintained peace for "a thousand generations". It's also clear that had the Sith not come on the scene then balance would've remained. The Jedi didn't create imbalance but they failed at stopped by the Sith because of some of these issues.

I think what Lucas was showing us was how evil doesn't just suddenly take over but that is allowed to take over. The Jedi weren't the cause of the problems but they were infected by it (it being the cancerous Sith). By the end of the PT we see how the Jedi realise their arrogance and how Qui Gon's view was correct - more mindfulness was required in regard to the living Force. The Jedi Order had simply become too embroiled in politics and power to see the will of the Force.

In the OT we see Yoda and Ben trusting in the force, living humble lives (not in an ivory tower). I think that is telling.

I think though, going back to your point, we have to wonder what would've happened had Anakin made the right choice and destroyed Palpatine? Peace and harmony would've been restored. So for me it's more about the Jedi being unable to prevent evil rising because of their errors rather than it being about the Jedi being a cause of evil themselves.

Another way to look at it is that the imbalance increases the more the Sith emerge and take over.

I don't think that was part of bringing balance. Though it did highlight the fact that the Jedi needed to change.

 

I agree, in the situation with Windu, Anakin and palpatine the right decision was to kill palpatine. In not taking an unarmed man to trial though, the right course of action for the greater good becomes corrosive on a personal level and as a collective group as a whole. Is it possible the Sith were also then the counter balance to the Jedi?

 

The Light cant exists without the Dark....

 

@Fooled Trooper good point

Is it possible then that literal numbers are significant when it comes to Sith and Jedi, as when there's no Sith theres nothing for the Jedi to stop?

 

To a point. Sith are the most apt at causing imbalance. But the same could be said of any one or any group that follows the dark side. As Tekka says in TFA: without the Jedi there can be no balance in the force.

I think this is because the Jedi are the only people who devote themselves the light side and are powerful enough to fulfill the will of the force and stop the rise of evil. The Sith don't cause imbalance by just existing per se, it's about what they do.

The fact is, if there's no Jedi there will still be evil people doing evil things. And they can all bring imbalance (even a non force sensitive group can spread evil across the galaxy and cause imbalance). So no Jedi will likely mean a distruption to the balance. No Sith doesn't necessarily mean balance (though it did after rotj) because another dark side group (FO/KoR) will rise.

 

Interesting perspective, whats your take on the build up to the prequels, was there any imbalance prior to palpatine?

 

Good question. I don't believe there was. I think the true imbalance began when the clone wars started. We know that the the imbalance grew over time and that as it did the Jedi's ability to use the force was diminished. I think this proves that it's the actions of the Sith that cause imbalance - not just their existence. The Sith acted behind the scenes for a long time, sowing the seeds for their takeover. Then when the clone war started evil began to take over the galaxy and the balance shifted towards darkness.

This is why I think Anakin was created by the Sith. It makes more sense in regard to the imbalance. I mean, if the force created him because of the imbalance then it created him before there was an imbalance - that doesn't add up to me.

 

I agree, I think they have to be treated as one and the same, I don't think there has ever been a Sith that has remained inactive through out there life. The act of becoming a Sith requires certain commitment and demonstration of ability to perpetuate Sith ideals.

 

Indeed, if a Sith exists you can be assured that they'll be looking at ways to take over the galaxy. The line of Sith showed remarkable patience in their quest to take over but their lives were all devoted to that cause of taking out the Jedi. By the time they actually cause imbalance it was too late for the Jedi to do much about it.

I did once think however that Snoke was Plagueis and that the former Sith was inactive because of his injuries. I don't think that any more but I do think that there is a case to be made for how a Sith (or something like it) could exist whilst not actively causing imbalance.

 

@master_shaitan So as the Sith reemerged there was partial imbalance and as the Sith grew there became more imbalance, because there were more Sith through deed not just existence itself, creating imbalance. I see. I've never though of it that way before.

 

Exactly. Imagine that the dark side in the galaxy is red ink in water. Light side is blue ink. Before the clone wars the inks are equal or there is more blue. As the Sith rise more red ink is added. As the war begins there is more red ink. Come the rise of the Empire, red ink has all but taken over. When the Sith are destroyed, the red and blue ink are equal/more blue ink.

I think balance isn't about equal amounts of blue and red ink so to speak but rather equal or more blue ink - because it's about balance in regard to something like "a healthy balanced diet" rather than the literal idea of equality.

 

@master_shaitan I see, essentially the Jedi must always at least represent half the balance if not more, like an accumulation of bad deeds unbalanced the force to the point that the Jedi came in to existence to counteract all the bad? It makes me wonder why the Sith emerged.

Is that anther way of looking at the scales, to much food you become fat to little food skinny and just right and your golden.

Do you see the force as having an actual will and with it a preference towards good or bad? I think I always saw it as being an energy that people ascribe things to but was neutral. That way things occur through natural response, through every action there is a equal and opposite reaction type thing.

It makes the chosen one interesting when looked at like this as, for reasons unknown there was a prophecy. Each side view this prophecy as coming from a credible source. Each side then actively looks for a chosen one. This is heightened in times when one side is dominating the other, as people often look to external sources for help in these times. As nature is cyclic there will always be a rotation, look at this like a government that attains power then becomes corrupt until a new one emerges or there is a rebellion and the people take back control. The corruption is seemingly an inevitable characteristic of every system of governance over time.
Rotation is employed to counteract this in our modern political system like terms of office or parliament wether acknowledged or not because like Windu, tough decision have to be made, but that compromise the integrity of the individual or extended group.
The point being there will be an emergence and reemergence element in play. This will be spearheaded by certain groups best placed to make the changes, in the Star Wars world normally force users. As with every group there will also be people more capable than others and a very elite at the top. These elite would be the people the rest of the universe would look at and ascribe the prophecy to.

I personally like this view as it leaves the force neutral. Analogous to the jungian collective unconscious, transposed into an energy to be drawn on, the difference being very few gifted individuals can make it conform to there will, not a God Head by another name that favours the good and has personal tastes and preferences. An energy created by life itself.

I back this up by the original emergence of the Sith. If the force was in homeostasis while there was just Jedi and average bad guys the Sith would never have emerged. The Sith are the polar opposite in every way of the Jedi this feels more in accordance with the newtonian For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

This is a little long so I will finish by saying. If the force was conscious why would it allow itself to be manipulated by lesser beings, it would just deal with them itself or pollute the energy being drawn from it. It doesn't need the creation of a chosen one with power the force itself bestows in the first place, if you see what I mean.

 

The Sith and Jedi aren't the Force though, they just use the force. The force is created by all living things and thus the balance is connected to all life rather than just the Jedi and Sith. When the galaxy is oppressed by the dark side then there is imbalance. This is largely brought about by the Sith. The Jedi destroy the Sith and then the galaxy returns to normal.

For me it's not like that. For me being too skinny is on the same side of the scales as being too fat - you have an unhealthy diet. A healthy balanced diet would consist of all good food eaten in good portions! Sometimes some bad food would creep in but you'd never have more bad food than good or you might skip lunch one day but not the rest of the week!

I see the Force as the collective consciousness of the galaxy. So the will of the force will always be a desire to return to peace and harmony in the galaxy as all life desires freedom and to not live in fear. So I don't think it's neutral so to speak but rather geared towards the light. The important thing though is that the when the Sith are about they spread darkness everywhere. The Jedi prevent that.

Do you think the Sith believed in the prophecy though? I think that goes against their nature. I think they saw Anakin as being very powerful and that he might even have been born to destroy them - but essentially that didn't concern them as they believe in their own power to control events. They'd simply turn him and use him as their weapon.

Indeed, and it largely is a pool of energy created by life and then available to this life to use. So yeah it is neutral in a way but the desire of the galaxy is for a peace and harmony which of course leans more towards light than dark.

I think it's more a case of good and bad people will always exist. I don't think the Jedi caused the Sith but rather "human nature" created the Sith.

I agree. The force is not sentient. It is the collective consciousness of all living things.

 

Yes, both Sith and Jedi would have had some degree of investment in the prophecy,

would be equally as appealing I suspect to a Sith. The Sith were very few in number at the time, the Jedi far exceeded them. A prophecy that talked of literal and metaphorical balance would have had great significance.

Yes I agree, In your opinion do you see both good and bad people contributing to the collective consciousness? I ask this because that was my inference when I read this.

If created by all living things both good and bad, I wonder if its natural state would be anything other than a balance between equal parts. Unless it is sentient and has a preference of its own?

I ask this because it seems like your are agreeing to two mutually exclusive ideas.

 

That's if the Sith see that as the balance. I mean, if the balance is what I am suggesting then the Jedi and Sith would know that the balance is about the light side being dominant/neutral. The fact that the Jedi's ability to use the Force is diminished as the Dark Side grows shows us how it has nothing to do with numbers of Jedi and Sith. It is about the state of the galaxy as a whole. The Sith couldn't care less about prophesies or balance - they just care about themselves and their own power and bend things to their will.

All life. All people.
"The Force is an energy field created by all living things.
The Jedi and the Sith are the greater influences upon the Force but they aren't the be all and end all.

The Force is created by all life. And all life desires freedom and harmony. Going against that is abnormal. It's cancerous. It's selfish. That's what the Sith do. And it leads to destruction - of others and themselves. So the will of the Force is the collective consciousness of the galaxy. It's the thing that connects everyone and everything. The will of the Force is essentially the life in the galaxy speaking its desires. And the Jedi listen (or should listen) and fulfil that will. The Sith pay it no notice and do what they desire for themselves.

That's why I say that balance = a state in the galaxy between neutrality and the light side. It can't ever be that good or evil are ever fully eradicated but all life is at its most harmonious when the light side is strong -when there is true peace, freedom and prosperity. When this is the state within the galaxy then the energy created by all living things reflects that. When the Sith take over they spread evil everywhere. They blow up planets. They oppress and ensure that people live in fear. This means that the Dark Side takes over and "leaves the Force in darkness". The life then that creates the Force in the first place desires the destruction of this evil Force to return to peace.

All living things create the Force - The force exists as an energy field - This energy field can be used by people for good and evil - The energy field connects everyone and everything and reflects the "will of all life" - The Jedi seek to fulfil the desires of this will as that will surely bring peace and harmony - The Sith reject the will and seek to use the Force for their own desires - When the Sith take over the life in the galaxy desires their destruction - The Jedi hear this by listening to the living Force and seek to destroy the Sith - Once the Sith are destroyed there isn't this great power spreading evil everywhere and things return to normal - The Jedi then maintain this status quo by stopping evil, or trying to, from rising again.

That's why I am saying the Force isn't a sentient God. It was created by life itself (not the other way around). The greater mystery that can be endlessly debated is how this mystical energy field is created by life (this of course is the fantastical element) but the idea behind it is that it is simply the thing that connects us all. It's essentially the Gaia Theory on the galactic scale!

So balance = a state where evil isn't stronger than good in the galaxy.
The will of the Force = the collective consciousness of all life that creates the Force.
The Sith = the group who are most able to spread evil everywhere and corrupt the balance.
The Jedi = the group who are best at destroying the Sith and maintaining the balance/fulfilling the will of the Force.

 

I see, by Galaxy you mean the majority as a whole, essentially what the reflection of the will of the people is (for peace and harmony) the energy mirrors and yearns for, and as the will of the people change so to do the fluctuations in balance or something?

I think the energy either has to be isolate, none sentient and as such have no desires even as a reverberation of the life that created it. Or it has sentience. I would choose isolate, non sentience.

 

I think so - all life creates the force and the energy the create reflects their will. As darkness comes and the balance is disrupted the will yearns for peace.

If the force is isolate and doesn't reflect the desires of all life then what would be the will of the force (which we know exists)?

 

Good question, but how do we know it to exist?