La Times: Admit it, The Force Awakens stinks

Another completely strange reply, not addressing my point at all. From the person claiming no one responds to his points.

Are you trying to say TFA is like the PT? If so, I find your criticism of TFA's un-originality of copying the OT ringing rather false. I think one thing almost every star wars fan can agree on is that the OT and PT are very different overall.

Let me tell you why you *might* not be getting the argument, ahem, discussion you seem to be looking for...

There are great movies out there I dislike. The difference between you and I is that I can admit that those movies are great if asked, and that it's *me* that has the problem. Not my type of movie, about a subject I don't find interesting, don't like an actor personally, whatever.

I *could* go around creating lists of complaints to justify myself and demand others prove me wrong. Why would they? I'd obviously be in the vast minority and the burden is on me to do the convincing or raise some interesting alternative ways to think of the movie.

I haven't responded to any of your specific complaints about the film because I honestly don't believe they're good enough to bother with. You aren't pointing out anything that I didn't already notice watching the movie. I had already decided I'd rank this somewhere in the top three Star Wars films (above ROTJ) despite being aware of what you consider to be such damning faults.

My opinion could change with time, yes, but I doubt it's going to change that much that I would say this movie isn't a very good movie.

 

Forgot one:

1983

1999

2002

2005

Today

People have hated a Star Wars ever since the OT.
I remember often having to outline why ROTJ was worth watching and not ignoring back in the mid-80's.
Heck; I knew some folks who hated it so much that they were willing to ignore ESB and just watch ANH only just to avoid that "bastard child" ROTJ.

 

Haha, so true.

I remember walking out of ESB to lots of people grumbling. There was quite a backlash against it to begin with, infact I recall some early reviews of RoTJ saying Lucas had got Star Wars back on track after the 'miss' that was ESB. Star Wars fans have always hated Star Wars that wasn't in their head canon.

 

I suppose I could also mention that leaving personal baggage out of reviews is what professional reviewers are expected to do, hence why I pointed out the review in question is from a business reporter, not a movie critic. I do feel he is mixing in personal issues in his review.

That's why I give the same weight to his opinion that I would any other random person talking about the movie. And if a random person makes a headline or titles a thread with "Admit it, The Force Awakens stinks", my first instinct is that they're trolling hard.

 

It's just click bait. Star Wars is everywhere right now and the praise is not stopping, so how do you stand out? You be the one person hating on it, you'll get a lot more views that way, which means increased ad-revenue. I imagine the reviews from the four people who gave Toy Story 3 a negative review have more comments and views than most of the other ones.

 

Which is always amusing to me because Lucas has always said that the only canon he considers real is the one on the screen, and Kasdan has repeatedly said that he has absolutely no clue what canon is and doesn't care what that is.

Canon, for Star Wars, is more of a fan thing; unlike Star Trek where the production actually does consult canon (or tries to anyway) to check against whether what's going on is in or out of bounds.
Or, better put; Star Wars canon has always been a thing Lucas agreed to basically to stop people from asking him if their merchandise was befitting of his Star Wars approval.
So, he told folks to pool together a canon and then everyone could just bounce off of that for most things rather than waiting on him just for doing video games or writing yet another novel spin-off.

 

Hahaha!

In this thread alone there are calls to lock the thread, calling us trolls, bashing of ROTJ, bashing of Empire, telling people who don't like TFA "I feel sorry for you"...and a wierd emotional rant in defense off JJ.

Why so defensive? Why so mad that people can see the flaws of the movie?

Disney and JJ really did a number on folks.

 

I haven't seen anyone in this thread decry people who don't like the movie. Infact amongst my friends I include someone who really didn't like it.

None of my friends obnoxiously attempted to tell me my opinion wasn't valid or my own though.

 

For myself; no.
I'm not interested in bashing anyone, nor am I bashing ROTJ or Empire.
My point was that folks have always come along and hated several of the Star Wars movies when they came out, even if we look at them today and think they are great movies - I think ROTJ really well stands as a staple of that, as it became more liked the older it got and was horribly received at first.
I don't feel sorry for folks who don't like TFA; I feel sorry for folks who live in Palestine or Syria.
If someone doesn't like TFA; bummer. It's a fun show to enjoy, for me at least.

As to Abrams; he did do a great job in the technical direction and shooting of the film.
I could go at length about what he did well technically, but I don't think that means much to whether or not a specific person will or won't enjoy the film.
I could go on at length about the technical accomplishments and quality of PT by Lucas and show how it was actually technically very well crafted for what was intended, but that's not going to make a bunch of folks suddenly decide that they enjoy the movie.

I just like TFA because I enjoyed it; I've given lists of things I liked about it in specific, but very little in those lists are an objective truth.
If I consider objectiveness to be skill and technical accomplishments, then it is a good movie in that it was well made and no one did their job poorly - we're not seeing bad blue screening that turns colors the wrong color because folks didn't set the blue screening up right or repaint the color on the frame back after losing it during blue screening, bad shot blocking that causes speaking characters to be absent from the shot for seconds without any direct focus clear in the shot, no heads popping over backdrops weirdly as the character moves from behind a matte painting to in front of the matte painting because someone got the dimensions slightly off, no poorly paced editing that leaves awkward long pauses at the end of a scene as if there's more but there's not, no accidental ghosts consequent of composite shots that weren't proofed well enough before the final mixing, no jarring bouncing back and forth of extreme dark and extreme bright scenes; frying the eyeballs in dark room, etc...

In that sense; I suppose I can say that it was "objectively" good, but that's not what folks generally mean when they say it was "good" or it was "bad".
Generally people mean, "I enjoyed it" and "I didn't enjoy it", which is a subjective experiential statement that can't really be objectively quantified.

 

I just tried to answer why you and the others aren't getting the response you seem to want. Maybe you should read it?

... oh, who am I kidding... it's not going to make a difference if you do... lol

Oh well, much love to even the most misguided fans!

 

Trollaphobia? If one hates a hater, then one is covering up for their agreement with the hater?

I don't care about "troll" or whatever people want to bother worrying about in that regard (honestly, some of the great artists in their craft are some of the largest self-admitting trolls I know - deadmau5, for instance...good lord; now that man is literally a self-priding troll).

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see trolling going on.
Trolling is doing what will piss people off, or cause commotion simply because it's known to piss people off or cause commotion.
What I see are people who feel strongly about their views of the show and disagree with each other.

The unfortunate part is that there seems to be an inability by both parties to avoid ad hominem arguments for their position.

 

Nope, sorry but I don't think it has something to do with not liking TFA.
You can love, hate, be indifferent by TFA, I respect your opinion.

Multiplying threads that basically repeat the same thing (TFA stinks and/or JJ Abrams stinks) leaves no place for discussion but for hate fest. It's like I would start right now 3 threads named:

The Force Awakens and Creed, the 2 best 7th episodes ever, which is the most fantastic from the two?

Toronto Sun names TFA the best movie of 2015, it's official, TFA is a complete success!

JJ Abrams is the best director for rebooting franchise, it's official!

And would repeat tomorrow.

I do have a concern with Snoke in TFA, I will go in the existing Snoke thread and debate.

 

That said, ticket sales and overwhelmingly positive reviews from fans are *a* measurable indicator of overall movie goers subjective experiences. Not a perfect one, by any means, but when it's this skewed into the positive, it's hard to argue with..... if you're reasonable.

 

Right there...

No one is right or wrong!

It's not a football game kids, OMG, no wonder people are fighting over religion in the world...

My opinion is not better than yours DFF, and yours, not better than mine. Watching a movie is a very personal experience. If REAL fans that were waiting for years for this movie got really heart-broken... I feel sorry for them, because I lived the same thing in 99.

I don't feel sorry for them because I think they are wrong about their opinion.

 

Sorry DFF, I feel a little cheap you are the one that got my thunder about this issue. It was a really general comment for that rotting vibe that goes on in this forum section in the last week.

I apology for this.

 

Ehh...playing devil's advocate here, I could actually argue that.
There are several films that make massive tons of cash but are not quality made films.
Cannon Films made an entire business model off of that, in fact.