La Times: Admit it, The Force Awakens stinks

My primary criticism of criticism is that critics generally believe that their opinion is definitive, and that any contrary opinion is either the result of stupidity or lying to oneself.

There are plenty of "quality" or classic works that I don't care for but don't dare call them bad. They're just not my taste.

I also don't think any film critic can look objectively at Star Wars 1977 and not declare it art. That's just elitist, snobby ignorance.

 

Thank you. Even though it's a lot of work for the staff, I do appreciate your willingness to keep threads like this open as long as everyone is civil. It would be easier just to shut the thread down, for sure.

But I'd also like to ask again that the "dislike" button be eliminated. I really do think that actually causes some of the rancor on these threads, because there's already a "disagree" button that could be used if if someone doesn't like my opinion. Dislike, with its negative rating, means they don't like me. Whether intended or not, it changes a disagreement into a personal attack. And that just doesn't foster civil debate. There are other buttons to use if someone is really misbehaving, and of course, members can be reported- which you guys are good about responding to, BTW.

 

HAL'sgal, I hear you loud and clear. I know that the "dislike" button has been discussed before, and I'll touch base with the rest of the staff to see where we are on it as of now. I know that there are legitimate arguments for and against having a "dislike" button, but I see where you're coming from as far as the "dislike" button having the potential to be used as sort of a punch in the snoot.

 

From a technical standpoint Avatar is phenomenal, but I agree, it isn't a very good film.

And they're making another 3 of them. Oh dear...

The only reason it made the money it did is because of IMAX and 3D. Without those I feel it would've struggled over 1 billion. When you adjust for inflation it made 800 million.

 

As long as the board has a rating system the dislike button serves it's purpose. Look at this thread. OP calls people who like TFA sheep, makes references to Hitler's big lie etc. What is it to disagree upon?

Another example is the redundant poll by the nick who calls himself "me and my friends didn't like TFA". When people gently try to enlighten him about his lack of method he starts to give tusken raiders. A behaviour worthy of a complete moron, in my humble opinion. So either I put these guys on ignore list or I give em a tusken or a dislike. What is it to disagree upon?

When that being said, I do appreciate a good old troll.

 

Yes, and I put up with that elitist, snobby ignorance from them (and other scifi fans) for over thirty years.

I just hope JJ himself wasn't taken in by that, and made the Big Three into a group of fallen heroes more suited to the critic's taste. Since the story isn't over yet, I won't make that judgment just yet.

I do think a lot of the dissatisfaction we are seeing now might have been somewhat tempered had the movie been longer, or made into a two-parter.

 

Opinions of TFA aside, I completely agree that the amount of money a movie makes does not necessarily correspond to how good a movie it is, any more than a person's net worth has anything to do with how good a person they are.

 

No, there is another......

The third option is to not respond to posts you don't like. I personally don't put people on ignore because sometimes they have good and valid arguments.
Honestly, it's like raising little kids. The fastest way to extinguish bad behavior is to ignore it.
Plus, it's a useful life skill to develop the ability to say "Eh, whatever."

 

I agree. On topic: TFA is the greatest movie ever, 10/10.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 30, 2015, Original Post Date: Dec 30, 2015 ---

I fully agree about the ignore list. In theory I agree about the other too, but I'm heel.

 

Well, I have watched the audience rating on the Tomatometer decline over the past ten days, so you may be right about that.
Plus, there is the term "damning with faint praise". That thought keeps creeping into my head, even as I read this thread.

I myself am no film critic, and I don't pretend to know what others should like or dislike. As far as I'm concerned, we should only be criticizing the critics as they are the ones who hold themselves up as arbiters of what constitutes a good film.

As one of my former business partners used to say to me, "You're entitled to your own s@#^&y opinion."

 

I wasn't super hyped like a lot of fans i was just excited to see a new star wars film. I know JJ Abrams is unoriginal but i had no clue he would completely rip off a new hope.

 

Lol, well at least you admit it, just like I admit I'm no film critic.

 

True. And yet, even that doesn't help a lot of folks to overcome their tendency to act like jerks.

 

If you were to honestly critique the film it really shouldn't be getting more than 7/10.
-It is 80% the same plot as ANH. That is unaccceptable.
-It doesn't explain things that NEED explaining - R2's awakening. What's going on with the Republic. Why does the Resistance actually need Luke? How did the FO track down Lor San Tekka & the map? What happened to Maz?! How did Rey suddenly turn into a Jedi Master? Big plot points.
-It doesn't work as a standalone film as it leaves many questions open.
-The pacing is too fast.
-Two many characters which results in cameo's like Poe involved in the scenes that really should be left for the hero (Star Killer destruction)
-There are ZERO new environments with exception to Maz's world. Jakku - Tatooine. Star Killer - Hoth. D'Qar - Yavin. Like the story it is unoriginal and doesn't expand the Universe. In fact it makes it smaller. This, for a Star Wars film, isn't right. Star Wars should stretch the imagination and be original.
-Did I mention it isn't original in any way? Nor daring?
-CGI Snoke is a travesty.
-The end of the film is a mess. No true climax - unless you have a Mark Hamill fetish.

Hey, it's good fun. Acting is pretty decent. Lot's of funny stuff. Great to see Han and co. again. But as a film it is nothing special, nothing new and nothing that I hoped for. Like Is said, I give it a generous 7/10.

 

On tv now in uk- I'm shocked at how bad CGI looks now.

Almost as bad as Snoke.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 30, 2015, Original Post Date: Dec 30, 2015 ---

Maybe, but I can handle Maz being dodgy as she is a minor ish role. Snoke is the big bad. He has to be believable and 'scary'. He looks fake and silly. The ST was ruined there and then for me.

 

You must not have spent much time around Star Wars fans prior to the release of the movie. The comparisons to the build up for the Phantom Menace were commonplace. There were certainly plenty of people expecting a great movie no matter what (just as there were people convinced it would be terrible), but the general mindset was one of cautious optimism. The memory of the PT kept expectations in relative check.

And your Into Darkness analogy is flawed. The Trek fans that are upset about it now, were by and large upset about it then - and the main problem (though there were others) was that it moved Star Trek in a direction that took away so much of what hardcore fans loved about the franchise. I haven't seen any evidence that general audiences have soured on it at all.

Whatever flaws The Force Awakens has, it is true to the source material - obviously too true for some.

With TFA, you can point out some plot holes and instances where it is overly reliant on coincidence, but that's never bothered Star Wars fans before - the OT is filled with examples of both. The one overriding complaint about the movie is that it's too similar to ANH. But that's not likely to damage people's opinion of the film much over time, because everyone was well aware of that from the start. In most of the positive critical reviews that you like to dismiss because they don't support your position, the plot similarities are noted, it's just not seen as much of detraction - and in some cases viewed as a positive.

It doesn't change how much fun the movie was to watch. It doesn't change how strongly people have taken to the new characters. If it was going to ruin the movie for you, it did that the first time you watched it.

For the most part, people that enjoyed it, and went back and saw it again, have liked it more with repeated viewing. That's a pretty strong indication that you're expectation is dead wrong.

 

I think the L.A. Times was being too harsh. I don't believe that "The Force Awakens" stunk. It was rather entertaining. But it is my least favorite SW movie right now.

 

I see where you're coming from but I don't think it's true. It sticks very, very close to the same template, the same framework of episode 4 but the story in itself, the actual plot moves in a different direction. It's a lot more emotional than episode 4 was. A son killing his father, that's some heavy stuff right there. There' s a certain melancholy to the film, a certain feeling of loss as well as the 'new hope' that to me it felt different enough to be enjoyable.

Star Wars has always been a love letter to the pulp serials of the thirties and beyond, it has often been criticised for ripping of Flash Gordon. From the very beginning sticked close to Campell's The Hero With A 1000 Faces. It's the same old story over and over again told in different ways. That is the true power of these kinds of stories. They are (pulp) myths if you like.

And not daring? To make a film with Luke and Han AND give the first a cameo and have the other killed is quite daring to some.