SPECULATION Lucas/Kasdan on Anakin's History (1981) and how it will effect The Force Awakens

BB-Rey · Jan 28, 2015

" I haven't seen Clones, which has been during this period when I haven't seen much of anything, but I did see Phantom Menace, and see my feelings about it - see, first of all, I think that when you make a lot of movies, your attitude about the movies changes." - Larry Kasdan, IGN in 2003.

As well this exert from The Making of Star Wars on the Prequels in which he was part of.

REVENGE OF THE JEDI STORY CONFERENCE TRANSCRIPT, JULY 13 to JULY 17, 1981—SUMMARY

Participants: George Lucas, Richard Marquand, Lawrence Kasdan, and Howard Kazanjian

Location: Park Way House

Note: Many of the ideas here are conceptual only and should not be considered as canon in the Star Wars saga.

THE STORY OF ANAKIN

Lucas: Anakin Skywalker starting hanging out with the Emperor, who at this point nobody knew was that bad, because he was an elected official.
Kasdan: Was he a Jedi?
Lucas: No, he was a politician. Richard M. Nixon was his name. He subverted the senate and finally took over and became an imperial guy and he was really evil. But he pretended to be a really nice guy. He sucked Luke’s father into the dark side.
Kasdan: The Force was available to anyone who could hook into it?
Lucas: Yes, everybody can do it.
Kasdan: Not just the Jedi?
Lucas: It’s just the Jedi who take the time to do it.
Marquand: They use it as a technique.
Lucas: Like yoga. If you want to take the time to do it, you can do it; but the ones that really want to do it are the ones who are into that kind of thing. Also like karate. Also another misconception is that Yoda teaches Jedi, but he is like a guru; he doesn’t go out and fight anybody.
Kasdan: A Jedi Master is a Jedi isn’t he?
Lucas: Well, he is a teacher, not a real Jedi. Understand that?
Kasdan: I understand what you’re saying, but I can’t believe it; I am in shock.
Lucas: It’s true, absolutely true, not that it makes any difference to the story.
Kasdan: You mean he wouldn’t be any good in a fight?
Lucas: Not with Darth Vader he wouldn’t.
Kasdan: I accept it, but I don’t like it.
Lucas: Well, anyway, Luke’s father gets subverted by the Emperor. He gets a little weird at home and his wife begins to figure out that things are going wrong and she confides in Ben, who is his mentor. On his missions through the galaxies, Anakin has been going off doing his Jedi thing and a lot of Jedi have been getting killed—and it’s because they turn their back on him and he cuts them down. The president is turning into an Emperor and Luke’s mother suspects that something has happened to her husband. She is pregnant. Anakin gets worse and worse, and finally Ben has to fight him and he throws him down into a volcano and Vader is all beat up.
Now, when he falls into the pit, his other arm goes and his leg and there is hardly anything left of him by the time the Emperor’s troops fish him out of the drink. Then when Ben finds out that Vader has been fished out and is in the hands of the Empire, he is worried about it. He goes back to Vader’s wife and explains that Anakin is the bad guy, the one killing all the Jedi.
When he goes back his wife, Mrs. Skywalker has had the kids, the twins, so she has these two little babies who are six months old or so. So everybody has to go into hiding. The Skywalker line is very strong with the Force, so Ben says, “I think we should protect the kids, because they may be able to help us right the wrong that your husband has created in the universe.” And so Ben takes one and gives him to a couple out there on Tatooine and he gets his little hideout in the hills and he watches him grow. Ben can’t raise Luke himself, because he’s a wanted man. Leia and Luke’s mother go to Alderaan and are taken in by the king there, who is a friend of Ben’s. She dies shortly thereafter and Leia is brought up by her foster parents. She knows that her real mother died.
Kasdan: She does know that?
Lucas: Yes, so we can bring that out when Luke is talking to her; she can say that her mother died when “I was two years old.”

Of course the prequels changed quite a bit over the course of the years but, I think it's very possible they were mapping out the sequels during this time too and it appears things were rearranged in a slightly different way. They aren't completely different then what is stated.

Around the time of this discussion, George had these things to say about the Sequels. Some of which go in line with the information we have on Episode VII .. so far.

" In the sequel Luke would be a sixty-year-old Jedi knight. Han Solo and Leia would be together, although Lucas says, "They might be married, or not. We have never actually discussed marriage in this galaxy. I don't even know if it exists yet. Who knows what relationship they will have? I mean, they're together, let's put it that way."

The sequel focuses mainly on Luke, and Lucas says Mark Hamill will have first crack at the part if he is old enough. "If the first trilogy is social and political and talks about how society evolves," Lucas says, "Star Wars is more about personal growth and self-realisation, and the third deal with moral and philosophical problems. In Star Wars, there is a very clear line drawn between good and evil. Eventually you have to face the fact that good and evil aren't that clear-cut and the real issue is trying to understand the difference. The sequel is about Jedi knighthood, justice, confrontation, and passing on what you have learned."

This particular opinion comes from The Secret History of Star Wars ..

It appears that Lucas developed a somewhat alternate version of the Sequel Trilogy by this point, likely just in case he still felt like making it one day. This version also takes place much farther into the future, roughly forty years after Return of the Jedi, as opposed to twenty (Luke is said to be in his 60s), and is more centered around the gimmick of re-uniting the aged original cast.

However, it is possible that much of the thematic content of the original plan remained intact.

It's an interesting opinion because, it has been speculated that JJ wanted to use more of Luke, Leia, and Han in the Episode VII then George had originally outlined in his treatments of the films that he handed to Disney.

Mark Hamill has said that the Sequels are more about the new generation then the older but, I wouldn't be surprised that the original cast, particularly Luke and Leia have an important role to play in what happens with the new generation.

Most of these reasons for me deal with the Mortis Arc from Clone Wars. In the Mortis Arc, the father is balance, the daughter is light, and the son is dark. In the Clone Wars the father is around and is able to keep things calmer and restrain the daughter and son.

What if, with Anakin gone .. the father, Luke and Leia begin experiencing the Dark and Light side through their actions.

Luke is rumored to be in exile, could it be because, he doesn't want to spill doom for the galaxy?

As it says in the Star Wars dictionary, I own ..

The other one—what happens to Luke afterward—is much more ethereal. I have a tiny notebook full of notes on that. If I'm really ambitious, I could proceed to figure out what would have happened to Luke." - George Lucas

Could he have become ethereal with the Dark Side?

It's harder to answer a lot of these questions but, around the time George made some important sequel trilogy statements, Larry Kasdan was in the room for the discussion for what happens in the prequels. It's quite possible they had discussions about the sequels ..

One last thing. Dale Pollack had this to say about the Sequel Trilogy.

" The three most exciting stories were 7, 8 and 9. They had propulsive action, really interesting new worlds, new characters. I remember thinking, 'I want to see these 3 movies."

Propulsive action .. A new threat of Sith, the Empire, and a family conflict that could alter the galaxy as a whole ...

" The story is about a group of people, a family. " - George Lucas

riedel1973 · Jan 28, 2015

Joe12Hawk said: ↑

On his missions through the galaxies, Anakin has been going off doing his Jedi thing and a lot of Jedi have been getting killed—and it’s because they turn their back on him and he cuts them down.
Click to expand...

I like this better than what happened in Revenge Of The Sith!

Joe12Hawk said: ↑

And so Ben takes one and gives him to a couple out there on Tatooine and he gets his little hideout in the hills and he watches him grow. Ben can’t raise Luke himself, because he’s a wanted man. Leia and Luke’s mother go to Alderaan and are taken in by the king there, who is a friend of Ben’s. She dies shortly thereafter and Leia is brought up by her foster parents. She knows that her real mother died.
Click to expand...

This better explains why Leia remembered her mother, but Luke didn't. It also avoids the lame "She died of a broken heart" death. However, it's pretty unrealistic to think that a mother would voluntarily give up one of her twin babies!

BB-Rey · Jan 28, 2015

riedel1973 said: ↑

I like this better than what happened in Revenge Of The Sith!

This explains better why Leia remembered her mother, but Luke didn't. However, it's pretty unrealistic to think that a mother would voluntarily give up one of her twin babies!
Click to expand...

I like it a bit more also .. and fear will make you do things you may otherwise wouldn't. Quite possible she would have done it as protection for the twins.

Voxx · Jan 28, 2015

Joe12Hawk said: ↑

" I haven't seen Clones, which has been during this period when I haven't seen much of anything, but I did see Phantom Menace, and see my feelings about it - see, first of all, I think that when you make a lot of movies, your attitude about the movies changes." - Larry Kasdan, IGN in 2003.

As well this exert from The Making of Star Wars on the Prequels in which he was part of.

REVENGE OF THE JEDI STORY CONFERENCE TRANSCRIPT, JULY 13 to JULY 17, 1981—SUMMARY

Participants: George Lucas, Richard Marquand, Lawrence Kasdan, and Howard Kazanjian

Location: Park Way House

Note: Many of the ideas here are conceptual only and should not be considered as canon in the Star Wars saga.

THE STORY OF ANAKIN

Lucas: Anakin Skywalker starting hanging out with the Emperor, who at this point nobody knew was that bad, because he was an elected official.
Kasdan: Was he a Jedi?
Lucas: No, he was a politician. Richard M. Nixon was his name. He subverted the senate and finally took over and became an imperial guy and he was really evil. But he pretended to be a really nice guy. He sucked Luke’s father into the dark side.
Kasdan: The Force was available to anyone who could hook into it?
Lucas: Yes, everybody can do it.
Kasdan: Not just the Jedi?
Lucas: It’s just the Jedi who take the time to do it.
Marquand: They use it as a technique.
Lucas: Like yoga. If you want to take the time to do it, you can do it; but the ones that really want to do it are the ones who are into that kind of thing. Also like karate. Also another misconception is that Yoda teaches Jedi, but he is like a guru; he doesn’t go out and fight anybody.
Kasdan: A Jedi Master is a Jedi isn’t he?
Lucas: Well, he is a teacher, not a real Jedi. Understand that?
Kasdan: I understand what you’re saying, but I can’t believe it; I am in shock.
Lucas: It’s true, absolutely true, not that it makes any difference to the story.
Kasdan: You mean he wouldn’t be any good in a fight?
Lucas: Not with Darth Vader he wouldn’t.
Kasdan: I accept it, but I don’t like it.
Lucas: Well, anyway, Luke’s father gets subverted by the Emperor. He gets a little weird at home and his wife begins to figure out that things are going wrong and she confides in Ben, who is his mentor. On his missions through the galaxies, Anakin has been going off doing his Jedi thing and a lot of Jedi have been getting killed—and it’s because they turn their back on him and he cuts them down. The president is turning into an Emperor and Luke’s mother suspects that something has happened to her husband. She is pregnant. Anakin gets worse and worse, and finally Ben has to fight him and he throws him down into a volcano and Vader is all beat up.
Now, when he falls into the pit, his other arm goes and his leg and there is hardly anything left of him by the time the Emperor’s troops fish him out of the drink. Then when Ben finds out that Vader has been fished out and is in the hands of the Empire, he is worried about it. He goes back to Vader’s wife and explains that Anakin is the bad guy, the one killing all the Jedi.
When he goes back his wife, Mrs. Skywalker has had the kids, the twins, so she has these two little babies who are six months old or so. So everybody has to go into hiding. The Skywalker line is very strong with the Force, so Ben says, “I think we should protect the kids, because they may be able to help us right the wrong that your husband has created in the universe.” And so Ben takes one and gives him to a couple out there on Tatooine and he gets his little hideout in the hills and he watches him grow. Ben can’t raise Luke himself, because he’s a wanted man. Leia and Luke’s mother go to Alderaan and are taken in by the king there, who is a friend of Ben’s. She dies shortly thereafter and Leia is brought up by her foster parents. She knows that her real mother died.
Kasdan: She does know that?
Lucas: Yes, so we can bring that out when Luke is talking to her; she can say that her mother died when “I was two years old.”

Of course the prequels changed quite a bit over the course of the years but, I think it's very possible they were mapping out the sequels during this time too and it appears things were rearranged in a slightly different way. They aren't completely different then what is stated.

Around the time of this discussion, George had these things to say about the Sequels. Some of which go in line with the information we have on Episode VII .. so far.

" In the sequel Luke would be a sixty-year-old Jedi knight. Han Solo and Leia would be together, although Lucas says, "They might be married, or not. We have never actually discussed marriage in this galaxy. I don't even know if it exists yet. Who knows what relationship they will have? I mean, they're together, let's put it that way."

The sequel focuses mainly on Luke, and Lucas says Mark Hamill will have first crack at the part if he is old enough. "If the first trilogy is social and political and talks about how society evolves," Lucas says, "Star Wars is more about personal growth and self-realisation, and the third deal with moral and philosophical problems. In Star Wars, there is a very clear line drawn between good and evil. Eventually you have to face the fact that good and evil aren't that clear-cut and the real issue is trying to understand the difference. The sequel is about Jedi knighthood, justice, confrontation, and passing on what you have learned."

This particular opinion comes from The Secret History of Star Wars ..

It appears that Lucas developed a somewhat alternate version of the Sequel Trilogy by this point, likely just in case he still felt like making it one day. This version also takes place much farther into the future, roughly forty years after Return of the Jedi, as opposed to twenty (Luke is said to be in his 60s), and is more centered around the gimmick of re-uniting the aged original cast.

However, it is possible that much of the thematic content of the original plan remained intact.

It's an interesting opinion because, it has been speculated that JJ wanted to use more of Luke, Leia, and Han in the Episode VII then George had originally outlined in his treatments of the films that he handed to Disney.

Mark Hamill has said that the Sequels are more about the new generation then the older but, I wouldn't be surprised that the original cast, particularly Luke and Leia have an important role to play in what happens with the new generation.

Most of these reasons for me deal with the Mortis Arc from Clone Wars. In the Mortis Arc, the father is balance, the daughter is light, and the son is dark. In the Clone Wars the father is around and is able to keep things calmer and restrain the daughter and son.

What if, with Anakin gone .. the father, Luke and Leia begin experiencing the Dark and Light side through their actions.

Luke is rumored to be in exile, could it be because, he doesn't want to spill doom for the galaxy?

As it says in the Star Wars dictionary, I own ..

View attachment 3896

The other one—what happens to Luke afterward—is much more ethereal. I have a tiny notebook full of notes on that. If I'm really ambitious, I could proceed to figure out what would have happened to Luke." - George Lucas

Could he have become ethereal with the Dark Side?

It's harder to answer a lot of these questions but, around the time George made some important sequel trilogy statements, Larry Kasdan was in the room for the discussion for what happens in the prequels. It's quite possible they had discussions about the sequels ..

One last thing. Dale Pollack had this to say about the Sequel Trilogy.

" The three most exciting stories were 7, 8 and 9. They had propulsive action, really interesting new worlds, new characters. I remember thinking, 'I want to see these 3 movies."

Propulsive action .. A new threat of Sith, the Empire, and a family conflict that could alter the galaxy as a whole ...

" The story is about a group of people, a family. " - George Lucas
Click to expand...

Nice job. You didn't mention Plagueis once!

You need a better title though, not many responces.

sbs87 · Jan 28, 2015

Joe12Hawk said: ↑

" The three most exciting stories were 7, 8 and 9. They had propulsive action, really interesting new worlds, new characters. I remember thinking, 'I want to see these 3 movies."

Propulsive action .. A new threat of Sith, the Empire, and a family conflict that could alter the galaxy as a whole ...

" The story is about a group of people, a family. " - George Lucas
Click to expand...

I've been bringing this up over and over again. Even if Disney/JJ rewrote all or most of what GL had for the ST,SW has been and always will be a story about a family lineage. If you think there won't be a new Skywalker in the ST I think you are fooling yourself. Sure there are plenty of cool characters with great stories but SW is about the Skywalker bloodline and the people around them. I don't think that's an aspect that Disney would throw out. Not only is it important in the ongoing story but its great for marketing.

BB-Rey · Jan 28, 2015

Voxx said: ↑

Nice job. You didn't mention Plagueis once!

You need a better title though, not many responces.
Click to expand...

Help me come up with a title, Voxx, you're my only hope.

Voxx · Jan 28, 2015

Joe12Hawk said: ↑

Help me come up with a title, Voxx, you're my only hope.
Click to expand...

Is what I came up with okay?

DEKKA129 · Jan 28, 2015

riedel1973 said: ↑

I like this better than what happened in Revenge Of The Sith!
Click to expand...

So do I. In fact, that whole version of Anakin's fall and the hiding of the twins seems to me to work far better than the "blink and you'll miss it" changes the characters went through in ROTS.

IMHO, Anakin's turn to the dark side (or at least his initial turn) should have occurred at the climax of Episode II as a way for him to kill some "unbeatable" nemesis from Episode I. But, of course, nobody besides Anakin and Palpatine are aware of his turn at that time. Then, Episode III is where it all goes to hell, as outlined by Lucas in those story meeting notes above. Anakin starts offing fellow Jedi when their backs are turned, Obi Wan figures it out, and tries to turn him back. Volcano battle happens, and Anakin's injuries seal the deal between him and the dark side. Obi Wan takes Luke to Tatooine, Mrs. Skywalker takes Leia to Alderaan, roll end credits.

And the thing is, Anakin could still have had something of the "save my wife" thing happening, if he were convinced that his nemesis was going to target his wife if he wasn't stopped. Plus, it would start him down the dark path where bringing justice curdles into merely maintaining order through power (as was Vader's obsession in the OT.) To me, that would be more believable than the whole thing of him turning to the dark side so that Padme didn't die in childbirth, and it would have followed Lucas' original (IMHO stronger) idea more closely.

Great thread!

Kreetle Kris · Jan 28, 2015

Great first post!

What stood out besides the Anakin stuff was this bit about Yoda:

Kasdan: You mean he wouldn’t be any good in a fight?
Lucas: Not with Darth Vader he wouldn’t.

The Lucas of back in the day made a lot more sense than the one who made the PT, that's for sure. A better idea of Anakin's turn to the dark side, a better explanation of Leia remembering her mother AND a Yoda who doesn't get into silly lightsaber fights?
Quick, someone phone Doc and Marty and let's hop into the Delorean and go get this guy to work on the following episodes.

Pastor Barndog · Jan 28, 2015

@Kreetle Kris I knew you would like it. I am still more in agreement with Kasdan, who understood but disagreed.

I love Yoda as presented in both trilogies.

I would much prefer a Solo to a Skywalker child. Simply because we saw Han and Leia's romance. A Skywalker would mean there was interesting things going on in the years between that we will never get to see on the screen.

Kreetle Kris · Jan 28, 2015

@PastorBarndog
Mind you, I didn't dislike Yoda in the PT, it's just the fight scenes I couldn't stomach. In fact the Yoda in The Phantom Menace looked really great.

Anyways. I have a feeling we might see both a Solo and a Skywalker child in the next film. One who turns to the dark side, the other to the light.
Kylo Ren Solo and Rey Skywalker?

(Who's to say we don't get to meet a 'married' Luke Skywalker who lives in a remote place, far, far away but not necessarily in exile?)

walnut the wise · Jan 28, 2015

PastorBarndog said: ↑

@Kreetle Kris I knew you would like it. I am still more in agreement with Kasdan, who understood but disagreed.

I love Yoda as presented in both trilogies.

I would much prefer a Solo to a Skywalker child. Simply because we saw Han and Leia's romance. A Skywalker would mean there was interesting things going on in the years between that we will never get to see on the screen.
Click to expand...

To me, any lineage from Anakin could be a Skywalker even if they technically have the last name "Solo". In this case I agree with you. A child from Leia and Han is much easier to explain on screen as we already know there was romance there; we saw it happen in the OT.

Chairman Kaga · Jan 28, 2015

Wht baffles me most about the PT is the lengths they went to realize the vague hints about the era from the OT, but also the blindingly obvious retconning that just blew up so many clearly defined plots and characters. More than the laziness of the dialogue, this is what bugs me about that trilogy. It just makes no sense.

Sunlighter Franchise · Jan 28, 2015

That version of episode 3 would have been more interesting. The biggest problem Episode 3 had is that the running time of the movie is to short. I always say the book, the book but if you read it Anakin's fall is far more convincing. Back when they basically brain stormed Anakin's back story they seemed to have no clue what the Clone Wars would be about. Take out the Droid army and replace them with clone Mandos to fight the Jedi and that would be a great movie. Also Anakin backstabbing the Jedi one at a time and then maybe a group including Obi-Wan confronting Anakin ala Palpatine's arrest would have been epic. Having Obi-Wan fight both Anakin and the Emporer only to have Yoda show up and help Obi-Wan would have been cool as well. Episode 2 should have had the Clone Wars already being fault and Anakin's secret turn happend toward the end. Still with all that happening we have to work a love story in. Padme, babies, space marriage. Episode 1 would work for that. No gungans, no Trade Federation.

Jedi77-83 · Jan 28, 2015

Episode 3 should have been all about fleshing out these plot points as to where every character ended up for Episode 4, instead of greatest hits checklist Lucas did in the last half hour.

As many have said here, Anakin should have turned at the end of Episode 2. The first hour of Episode 3 is him taking out several jedi on secret missions from Palpatine, and then Obiwan confronts him after he finds out he is working for The Empire. After the fight on Mustafar, the last hour could be how everyone arrived at Episode 4 as they could have had an awesome Sophie's Choice scene with Padme (this version should doesn't die until a few years later) as he has to choose between Luke and Leia.

Sunlighter Franchise · Jan 28, 2015

Jedi77-83 said: ↑

Episode 3 should have been all about fleshing out these plot points as to where every character ended up for Episode 4, instead of greatest hits checklist Lucas did in the last half hour.

As many have said here, Anakin should have turned at the end of Episode 2. The first hour of Episode 3 is him taking out several jedi on secret missions from Palpatine, and then Obiwan confronts him after he finds out he is working for The Empire. After the fight on Mustafar, the last hour could be how everyone arrived at Episode 4 as they could have had an awesome Sophie's Choice scene with Padme (this version should doesn't die until a few years later) as he has to choose between Luke and Leia.
Click to expand...

I wish we could have seen more of Palpatine's influence on Anakin's choice. Also wish he was being trained by both, Palpatine in secret and Obi-Wan outwardly. They would go confront Palpatine together and Anakin would turn on Obi-Wan in front of the Emporer. Yoda would sense Obi-Wan in danger and go help him. But some secret darkside training would have been cool. Why would he turn his back on everyone though? Why betray Padme and the Republic? It would still have to be more than just personal gain. Why hunt the Jedi for the Emporer during Episode 3?

Dark Toilet · Jan 28, 2015

I especially like the exposition in here about how anyone can access the Force, not just those with an unusually high midichlorian count. Granted, some would be stronger in the Force than others, but it reminds me fondly of my 7 year old self trying to concentrate super hard to move things with my mind using the Force... I believed back then!

sbs87 · Jan 28, 2015

PastorBarndog said: ↑

@Kreetle Kris I knew you would like it. I am still more in agreement with Kasdan, who understood but disagreed.

I love Yoda as presented in both trilogies.

I would much prefer a Solo to a Skywalker child. Simply because we saw Han and Leia's romance. A Skywalker would mean there was interesting things going on in the years between that we will never get to see on the screen.
Click to expand...

walnutthewise said: ↑

To me, any lineage from Anakin could be a Skywalker even if they technically have the last name "Solo". In this case I agree with you. A child from Leia and Han is much easier to explain on screen as we already know there was romance there; we saw it happen in the OT.
Click to expand...

When I was referring earlier to the ST having a new Skywalker I meant just that they have the blood of a Skywalker. This is why I like to refer to it as The Skywalker Bloodline. It doesn't have to be Luke's child. I'm open to so many new things being presented in the ST but this is one thing to me you just don't touch. SW is about The Skywalker Bloodline. If you want to make movies about other characters make spin offs. Which is exactly what they are doing.

Jedi77-83 · Jan 28, 2015

Sunlighter Franchise said: ↑

I wish we could have seen more of Palpatine's influence on Anakin's choice. Also wish he was being trained by both, Palpatine in secret and Obi-Wan outwardly. They would go confront Palpatine together and Anakin would turn on Obi-Wan in front of the Emporer. Yoda would sense Obi-Wan in danger and go help him. But some secret darkside training would have been cool. Why would he turn his back on everyone though? Why betray Padme and the Republic? It would still have to be more than just personal gain. Why hunt the Jedi for the Emporer during Episode 3?
Click to expand...

I always go back to Vader's line to Luke in ROTJ, "YOU don't know the Power of the Darkside, I must obey my master!" That was just never shown in the PT, as I thought that Vader was essentially enslaved to The Emperor. Possibly Vader tried to take out the Emperor and he put a few bolts of Lightning to show him who was boss. That is why Vader wanted to turn Luke on Cloud City, so they both could attack the Emperor as that was his only hope. But once Count Dooku used lightning in AOTC, it sort of cheapened his power.

Sunlighter Franchise · Jan 28, 2015

Jedi77-83 said: ↑

I always go back to Vader's line to Luke in ROTJ, "YOU don't know the Power of the Darkside, I must obey my master!" That was just never shown in the PT, as I thought that Vader was essentially enslaved to The Emperor. Possibly Vader tried to take out the Emperor and he put a few bolts of Lightning to show him who was boss. That is why Vader wanted to turn Luke on Cloud City, so they both could attack the Emperor as that was his only hope. But once Count Dooku used lightning in AOTC, it sort of cheapened his power.
Click to expand...

Totally agree about the "power" of the darkside and his almost complete loyalty to the Emporer. There is a new book coming out in which Vader and Sidious are stranded together on a hostile planet and have to rely on eachother for survival. Maybe we will get more of a glimpse as to why the Emporer has such a hold on Anakin. Also during Shadows of the Empire there is a scene with Vader where he has to be immersed in the darkside to stay alive. He is a slave to it.

SPECULATION Lucas/Kasdan on Anakin's History (1981) and how it will effect The Force Awakens

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SPECULATION Lucas/Kasdan on Anakin's History (1981) and how it will effect The Force Awakens

BB-Rey Guardian of the Zoetrope

riedel1973 Guest

BB-Rey Guardian of the Zoetrope

Voxx Jedi Hero of Legend

sbs87 Lord of The Dark Arts

BB-Rey Guardian of the Zoetrope

Voxx Jedi Hero of Legend

DEKKA129 Professional Slinger of Balderdash

Kreetle Kris Rebel Official

Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

Kreetle Kris Rebel Official

walnut the wise Rebel General

Chairman Kaga Rebel Official

Sunlighter Franchise Clone

Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

Sunlighter Franchise Clone

Dark Toilet Force Sensitive

sbs87 Lord of The Dark Arts

Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

Sunlighter Franchise Clone

Vader's mask and Luke/Anakin's saber.

What happened to Anakin's podracing helmet?

Anakin's past unraveled

Anakin's Saber did not witness all of Rey's vision?

Does Ahsoka Tano exist as Anakin's apprentice in canon?

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