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SPECULATION "Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter."

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by Andrew Waples, Sep 5, 2018.

  1. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    Just sayin
     
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  2. Too Bob Bit

    Too Bob Bit Jedi Commander

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    This is how I've always thought about it too. More specifically, it's becoming one with the Force while retaining individual consciousness. By doing so, like you say, they can have a greater influence on how the Force affects events in the galaxy.

    I sometimes wonder if part of becoming 'more powerful than you can possibly imagine' is in how they can even influence and enhance the Force for sensitive individuals still amongst the living. So the first thing Kenobi does is help guide and nurture and even enhance Luke's abilities. Kenobi, as part of the Force, is now part of that symbiotic relationship.

    I know it's head canon, but it makes me wonder what that means for Rey. Luke only had Kenobi (and possibly Qui-Gon) to enhance the flow of the Force through him, but Rey has the spirits of Qui-Gon, Kenobi, Yoda and even Anakin on her side to 'energise' her and bring about her 'awakening'.

    Personally, I don't need that as an answer as to why Rey seems to develop so quickly without training (because I don't think training is actually important), but it might go some way for explaining it for some.
     
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  3. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    All because Kanan called him a name :D
     
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  4. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    Luke in a giant storm cloud chucking lightning at Hux and Ren would be cinematic glory hahaha
     
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  5. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    Fart cloud Luke of DOOOOOOM!!!!
     
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  6. Too Bob Bit

    Too Bob Bit Jedi Commander

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    Yeah... that's always been my take on it. They're not just 'ghosts', ethereal spirits wandering the galaxy - they've become part of the Force itself.
     
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  7. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    exactly
     
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  8. Fuzzball

    Fuzzball Force Sensitive

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    Desperate times call for desperate measures.

    And it would totally subfart my expectations. :eek:


    Make it happen, Luke!
    Use all the Force if you have to.
     
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  9. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    I’d be pretty shocked if it’s directly addressed at all. If the midi-chlorians taught us anything it’s that fans general don’t want a definitive explanation for these mystical/divine elements. It’s probably best left to everybody’s individual imaginations where we can all wax existential about them forever and ever. Or, at least, I hope that’s the case :)
    That’s the perspective that ‘feels’ most accurate to me anyhow. Y'know? Qui-Gon, I think, is the only one to mention it, but the “will of the Force”. In some shape or form, the Force ‘wants’ certain things to happen for some reason. Maybe that was just his interpretation, but he IS the ‘OG FG’ so his impressions carry some decent weight I feel.

    The FG’s are both themselves and a part of this cosmic scale consciousness - one in the same. What the Force wants is also seemingly what they want. If we go too far down that road though we get to the debate over whether that's true individuality or a ‘hive mind’. I’d rather not touch that so I’ll leave it there.
    Interesting thought. Something to also consider is who OB was talking to. Vader. A darksider who is only occupied in achieving power in the here and now. The idea of giving up your ego, embracing death, and joining with a higher power, probably IS beyond his imagining. It’s a type of selflessness that someone like him couldn’t possibly grasp.
    Hard to say. I’m not sure if splitting the Force up would increase its effectiveness. Qui-Gon, Kenobi, Yoda, Anakin, they’d all be part of the same whole. Like dipping four glasses into the ocean. They appear as four separate things, but that’s only because they've been separated . Really though, they’re all part of the same whole . . . or whatever. I don’t know :D

    I think what a lot of people have a hard time tracking with Rey is the ‘why her?’ of it. If we’re to believe Snoke, Rey is the Light’s answer to Kylo’s Dark. But what makes her so special? Out of everyone in the GFFA, why this girl? Why did the Force choose her and not someone else? I expect we’ll maybe get a bit more on that topic. Fits with the theme so far. But I sure as heck have no idea what I'm talking about.
     
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  10. Angelman

    Angelman Servant of the Whills -- Slave to the Muses
    1030th Grand Admiral ***** (Mod)

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    I love all this! So, to expand on the head canon here... what is the Church of the Whills and Guardians of the Whills, and what are they worshipping/guarding? Force Ghosts? That doesn't seem entirely compatible with PT ('cause Qui-Gon was presumably the first one to figure out the FG thing, right?). Are the Whills at the same time identical and different to Force Ghosts? Are the Whills at the Church weird, holy ghost deities? And why do they need guarding?

    Clarification: I haven't read any of the current books and comics etc. I have no idea what's going on behind the scenes, so to speak ;)
     
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  11. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    This needs sent to LFL headquarters on a plaque so they never forget.
    Some things, do not need answers. Mystery is fine and okay.
     
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  12. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    I hope they keep the force spirit visions to a minimum. In fact, just Luke's voice coming from the ether would be enough for me, as Obi Wan in ANH. I find force ghosts rather cheesy... Except Yoda. I like Yoda in any shape or form :D
     
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  13. Too Bob Bit

    Too Bob Bit Jedi Commander

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    Oh for sure. I'm not necessarily suggesting it should be a 'reveal' in the next film. Just a bit of head canon to share if it helps :)

    Qui-Gon may be the first to you use that phrase (has it been suggested as Ep9 title?), but I think the idea and the concept has been there from the get-go. The idea of the Force having some control over one's destiny has been stated, or at least inferred, since ANH. Although Han doesn't believe it does! But 'will of the Force' and 'controls your destiny' are ways of saying the same thing I feel.

    Why her? Because somebody has to be 'first', so why not her?

    How do we know it is 'only' her? I don't think we do. TLJ shows us, via 'broom boy', that there are others out there who can use the Force. Rey only seems so special because that's the story we are seeing. But surely there have always been 'Force sensitive' individuals in the galaxy. But Rey was where things started to happen, and maybe more importantly, events brought her into contact with Luke's old lightsaber. Maybe if another Force sensitive person found it, then maybe it would have called to them too, and the story would be about them. Rey finding Luke's old lightsaber is like Charlie finding his golden ticket.

    Even as child watching the OT, I always imagined that there were others in the galaxy other than Luke who were born with the potential to use the Force. It's just the story focuses on Luke because he's where stuff is happening. I think TLJ reignites and reminds us of that.
     
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  14. Smullie_1138

    Smullie_1138 Rebel Commander

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    Can't find a link right now, but I believe this was an earlier idea for the Luke/Vader Duel in Return of the Jedi, with Obi-Wan assisting Luke through the Force.
     
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  15. Too Bob Bit

    Too Bob Bit Jedi Commander

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    I think mystery is more than fine and okay. It's a big part of what made Star Wars originally so magical.
     
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  16. srg

    srg Force Attuned

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    Can't remember the details, but yeah, both Obi-Wan and Yoda were supposed to show up. That was an initial idea.
     
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  17. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    "It's been 30 plus years and we still don't know what species Yoda is!!! OUTRAGEOUS!!!"
     
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  18. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    Yeah, I haven’t read the extended material either, but I just assumed they were guarding the temple itself because it’s a sacred place. The temple probably had ‘holy’ artifacts and scriptures and such. Stuff they wouldn’t want stolen or vandalized or whatever. That’s just my guess though.
    TCW continuity, no matter how silly at points, really is canon. There are ethereal beings that exist within the Force. Abstract entities like the Force Priestesses that represent the convergence between the living and cosmic levels of the Force. Qui-Gon somehow someway discovered the possibility to transcend, but I don’t recall it being explicit that he was the absolute first.
    I’m assuming that the term ‘Whills’ is being used interchangeably with the ‘Force’ in that instance. Maybe they’re viewed as sort of prophets or something, but I don’t think there’s literal Force beings involved. It’s just a name they call themselves. But who knows?

    I’m not saying that Force Ghosts = Whills, but I think it’s a similar concept to what George recently told James Cameron.
    The Whills then are these Force based beings that directly or indirectly affect life and the universe at large. Pushing people to follow some preferred path. Not totally unlike what Ghost-bi-Wan is doing in the OT - prodding Luke along toward some necessary destination. Meh, just an observation.
     
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  19. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    One problem: this is the end of the Skywalker Saga. There better not be some cliff hanger ending for 9.
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 6, 2018, Original Post Date: Sep 6, 2018 ---
    Not only that (I know you're kidding, btw) we don't even know if it is in fact species with and s at the end. Meaning are there even more of them to begin with.
     
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  20. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    This kind of circles us back ‘round to that first bit though, yeah? Is the Star Wars universe a chaotic sphere of happenstance or is it the product of some ‘intelligent design’ (so to speak)? *IF* Rey really is the Force’s champion (as it were) and *IF* the Force really has some sort of will of its own, then doesn’t that imply a degree of selectivity? I agree, there’s potentially dozens (if not hundreds or maybe thousands) of latent Force users littering the cosmos, but only Rey has been tasked with this unique role/burden. That reads to me as a choice more than randomness.

    Trust me, I’m not using this as some ploy to coyly promote Rey = XYZ’s sister/daughter/niece/second cousin or whatever, just that Rey is ‘special’. Not in the magical bloodline since, but in the since that she was deemed the most worthy. It’s certainly possible she was only in the right place at the right time - “the garbage will do” (if you will), but I think there’s more to it.

    The melon on my shoulders can barely hold all this wonky ‘canon’ stuffed in it, but here’s a bit more. My take is that Rey was chosen by the Force. Not because of who she’s related to our where she’s from, but because out of every potential candidate, she possessed the greatest capacity for good. It was the content of her character. Her compassion, her perseverance, her hope. THAT’S what makes her special. That’s why the Force chose her . . . or . . . you know . . . maybe not. Either way :)
     
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