Offical TFA media review thread

MomawNadan · Dec 16, 2015

Saw 7 at Midnight Syndey,

Can't be more happy, really felt allot like ANH all over again. My twelve year old stayed awake for entire movie and fell in love with Chewy just like I did at five.

The story, plot, and themes are all true to the franchise and can't wait to watch again. Always takes a few viewings for me to absorb. I was in awe from first scene and can't believe that. It was truly well done and I think will inspire a whole new generation.

It is so good in the times we live in to go to a film like this, it renews your faith in humanity, reminds us all that good guys (and Girls) will always beat bad guys because their made of better stuff.

I just really can't explain, never thought I'd feel 5 again.. I need to get a Bobba Suit together, that is going to be amazing.

So much want to discuss one part of movie that has kind of affected me, but will wait till everyone has seen it??

Chowdahead · Dec 16, 2015

Even worse....... SPOILERS......., Leia and Han are so estranged that Leia sends Poe to JAKU, which just so happens to be the exact planet housing the Millenium Falcon! how convenient that this reskin of Tattoine has the falcon. how convenient that Leia is also interested in said planet for Von Sydows special map. how convenient that neither Han nor Leia communicate any of this. how convenient that a well versed Force user, as she apparently pulls her abilities out of thin air, finds BB 8 and for whatever convoluted reason gives a sh*t about getting this info to the Resistance. and none of this is A NEW HOPE levels of convenience, it goes wayyy beyond that. it felt natural in that film for Han a smuggler to be at Mos Eisly. it felt like fate that Luke found R2 and thus our story began. Tattoine just happened to be the planet Leia and her envoy get partially caught up in. it wasnt truly a melting pot of convenience until the sequels and prequels retconned it that way. but even when you look back after Empire, you still buy into the destiny aspect of the Force (R2 happens to land on the planet that the son of Vader lives on) not to mention Tattoine clicked because Leia intentionally sends R2 to Tattoine to retrieve the assistance of Obi Wan Kenobi. it felt natural. from all of the reviews i read it seems JJ took convenience to an absurd level of unbelievabilty. things happen not because the force made it so, but because of JJs shortcomings as a writer. all of his films require quick edits and a speed that hopefully causes the audience to overlook huge leaps in logic, and now we arguably have the most convenient SW yet because of it. dont even get me started on Luke, who apparently trains a boy into Vader 2.0 and decides hes so upset about it that its completely OK for him to disappear for 30 years and let everyone else deal with it. good job Luke, your best friend dies because of it and so do sh*t loads of other people. awful awful writing. out of character for Luke, and ultimately a letdown of a story

Darth Holmes · Dec 16, 2015

NO SPOILERS DAMMIT!

Edit: why did this thread get moved to the spoiler section when Trevor explicitly said there would be no spoiler reviews allowed here until friday???

Chowdahead · Dec 16, 2015

Ree Yees said: ↑

And so here I am, returned from the theater and The Force Awakens. What follows are my first impressions/partial review and I'll hide it in a spoiler tag, though I won't be very elaborate. Edit: Forget that, I'm elaborate. FULL OF SPOILERS

Most of the reviews so far are spot on, both the positive ones - and the negative ones. It's just a matter of how important certain elements are to you. If you're looking for Luke Skywalker - which is kind of what the film tries to be about - your view will probably be negatively slanted. If you're ready for some pretty fast-moving action and one-liners, you'll probably be more positive.

Me?
I'm in the middle somewhere.

I absolutely really liked the first ten minutes of the film. Despite knowing everything beforehand, getting to see the scenes unfold was a treat. It struck the right chords by throwing us right into the middle of things and everything had great choreography, and Kylo Ren...well he makes a badass entrance, possibly more so than the classic Vader entrance in A New Hope because this guy is angrweeey. Compared to Anakin's pouting in the prequel trilogy, Kylo Ren is absolutely a much more intimidating villain, at least in this section of the film.

When the story moves to Rey, JJ Abrams manages to capture the charm of the original trilogy, mainly through Rey's interaction with BB-8 and later with Finn. The whole sequence until they escape Jakku is, in the word of Lawrence Kasdan, delightful. I got goosebumps. I was with Abrams all the way. I fell in love with Rey, who, as many reviews rightfully point out, is the breakout star of the film - some reviewers felt that Boyega's character became a sidekick and in a way I agree but I enjoyed Boyega's role a lot, even though his presence in the latter half of the film becomes...it's as if the film suddenly decides to go a different way, a way where his character no longer has a role to play. Too bad, because Finn, on Jakku, was just great. Chemistry with Rey, perfect in the classic, somewhat goofy/campy Star Wars style: They're just sweet.

The biggest surprise and relief during the first quarter of the film: Jakku is not nearly as Tatooine-ish as I've been fearing.

There is little to breathe in the opening, as we are thrown from one action sequence to the next; the first look at the Millenium Falcon had the audience, including myself and my son, applauding and cheering. But once it lifted off, and we got to the chase we've seen a lot of in the teasers and trailers...well, if the Jedi in the prequel trilogy were over the top in their fighting, the Falcon is a little over the top in its flying. There are some moves there that just didn't convince me, but fortunately the footage is intercut with short bits of Finn and Rey trying to get a hang of it, and both were funny here.

SO FAR...I was thoroughly entertained. SO FAR...it is not nearly as awkward as anything in the prequel trilogy. AND, SO FAR...to my huge surprise ... it felt like a new Star Wars movie, and not the ANH-rip-off I expected.

Sometime during the scenes with Han Solo, the film begins to fall apart for me. The magic was there, oh yes, but now as the film changes gears it loses some of that early power, and I'm not sure why, though I'll try...there's just something "off" about the whole incident aboard the weird freighter with the Kanjiklub and the Deathsomethings, it feels like it's from some other scifi movie. There's a hint of Alien in there, actually, but anyway, it was fast-paced and entertaining, but it was totally unnecessary in my opinion and the sequence could have been put to better use. And by better use I mean some room to let the characters breathe. No, I don't need endless exposition; that's the PT's territory. No, I don't need to have everything explained. But some things should perhaps be explained so as to give the characters more depth. I don't particularly care about what Han Solo's been doing (apparently, he's been trading grotesque monsters for thirty years) - I can imagine that myself. But we need more about the new characters. Well, Finn is kind of taken care of, but Rey; I miss a scene where she tells Finn how she ended up on Jakku. I know, it's supposed to be mysterious, but she could've said something like, "I was left on Jakku when I was very young. I don't remember much. I remember...they promised me they would come back."

Right. Let's see.

There is some fun banter, and Harrison Ford does a good job with Han Solo. Better than Return of the Jedi Han Solo; and despite what Abrams or Ford may say, Han Solo is the Han Solo as we knew him from The Empire Strikes Back. It's like nothing has changed. He could have accidentally stepped into a time machine as he was about to leave Echo Base on Hoth and stepped out again here. Some fun one-liners, though. Han and Finn is, like the other combos I've mentioned, a fun combo. Chewbacca is great, too, actually. He's treated more like a dog this time around, but he's really Chewbacca in the film. Happy to report!

The rest of the film, well. It has some good, some bad, and some ugly. I'm still processing, of course, and it will need repeat viewings (although I sense, through the Dark Side, that this film might not hold up as well as, say, the originals). There are some horrendous nods to the original Star Wars and I don't mean Starkiller Base. There are a few scenes and bits that are basically copy/pasted. I guess they can get away with calling it "homage", but to me, it became dumb (Rey overhearing two Stormtroopers talk about the latest model...though one can wonder if that scene, since it is identical to the Obi-Wan scene aboard the Death Star in Star Wars, hints that Rey is a Kenobi. Nope, not buying it but there it is).

Right.

THE GOOD:
Rey and Finn are really doing their best to become the leads of a new Star Wars generation, and they do it. I like Rey, I like Finn. They are not superawesome, but charming and relatable.

Kylo Ren - when masked - is nasty business. When the mask comes off...he loses coolness points. Still, I admire the writers for daring to unmask him and show the vulnerable, dare I say emotional, character underneath. And, sigh, yes: His name is Ben Solo. Bummer.

Carrie Fisher. I was surprised at how old she sounds but how good she looked in the film. Her role is minimal, but when she's on screen, you know it. She got some of the best lines, too.

BB-8: Not bad for a football, the little droid was able to sneak into many scenes without dominating. Unlike R2 and 3P0, the droid's character wasn't as one-dimensional, it had some great (imagined) lines - such as when you can infer that BB8 is saying something naughty - but it did not have the presence (and of course, history) of R2 and 3P0.

THE BAD:
Poe Dameron is great in the beginning of the film, and becomes sorely underutilised for the remainder of the film. Yes, he's whooping and throwing out some lines from the cockpit of his kewl X-Wing Fighter, but - and this shows how good Isaacs is in the film - I missed him in the latter half of the film. I actually missed Dameron more than I missed you-know-who.

General Hux was underwhelming as a character. Gleeson unfortunately didn't have the presence (or age) to make me believe in the character. Yes, Star Wars has its fair share of stereotypical evil villains, but Hux was relatively unnecessary for the plot. The one scene in which Gleeson gets to show off some character, the Nuremberg-scene, is not enough. Hux wasn't a Tarkin, he was more a Force-less Count Dooku. They should have played up that hint of mad powerlust in more of his scenes. Oh well. I guess this counts as a nitpick.

The Starkiller Base. Yeah, well. It's another superweapon and it's fueled by suns. I thought it was dumb, even for Star Wars. It never feels like a threat, though.

THE UGLY:
I'm sorry to say that Supreme Leader Snoke is, for me, the movie's least exciting element. The character was underwhelming. The obvious CGI didn't help. The fact he looks like Voldemort after having his head cracked on the ice, didn't help. The fact that the film doesn't give us anything about this mysterious character didn't help (even a small hint would perhaps help). Total waste of Andy Serkis' talent. I can't believe that this design got through the process of creating the film. If I had been a chairman or whatever, I'd put my foot down and said, "No, this isn't good enough." Seriously. I can think of a hundred different character designs that would be more interesting than Snoke. There is no charm to the character. He doesn't feel threatening even when he tries. And though the film doesn't specifically state it, I get the feeling that Snoke is, like the embodiment of the Dark Side or something. Left ambigious, they of course have a lot of freedom going forward with this character, but. No. Took me completely out of the movie. As if he had stepped in from a Harry Potter film to spoil the fun ride we were having.

THE PLOT:
Oh, it's so weak. It is so weak. A New Hope wasn't weak. It was simple, yes, and effective, but once we leave Jakku The Force Awakens becomes messy. It doesn't longer know which way to go, or what to do to get there in the most believable manner. All of a sudden, Han Solo begins to jump to lightspeed from inside freighters, and leaving lightspeed right above the surface of a planet, while a more streamlined script wouldn't need to have Han do these things that never were shown to be possible in the previous movies. It comes out of nowhere - as does the identity of Kylo Ren (although I appreciate how casual Han and Leia are about this, in the sense that we're just listening in and nobody's going to stop, look at the camera, and explain it for us). Poe Dameron is left for dead on Jakku and whoo! He's on Taco Diner or whatever the planet's called. The entire last half of the film feels derivative, with a few sequences that feel right and good and fresh, and even Han comments on it in his gruff manner: "We're going to do the same thing as we always do when superweapons come up." (No, that's not an actual line of dialogue, but you get the point). I groaned.
In other words, it begins strong and for the first half of the film I was barely aware that "I had been here before"; there's enough new stuff to occupy the senses. Toward the end, it has become tiresome.
I feel the film never defined its story well enough; it kind of floundered. Is it about the threat of the Starkiller Base? Is it about finding Luke? Why are people looking for Luke anyway, after so long? Is it about Kylo Ren? Rey? This might improve of course with more viewings. Unlike the original trilogy, however, The Force Awakens remains a bit...unfocused.

Adam Driver. Solid actor, but I wasn't sold. I don't know why, to be honest. The character came off as unhinged in some sequences (mainly as Kylo Ren) and then all of a sudden..I don't know. I need to see the film again to re-evaluate my thoughts on Driver and his character. I actually thought he was too evil for this film, and that he kind of didn't fit entirely.

Let me try to explain: The Force Awakens tries both to capture the spirit and heart of Star Wars, the darker side of the saga and its mythical underpinnings of The Empire Strikes Back, and the core stuff about family from Return of the Jedi. It's a look back, and a look forward. The callbacks just aren't as convincing. And in this montage of memories and hints of the future, strides tall, lanky Kylo Ren, angrier than Anakin, more unhinged than Anakin, though much less imposing than Darth Vader, a character almost too dark for the rest of the film. He certainly puts a damper on things just before the end, there.
At the same time, I understand what Abrams is trying to do here (or at least I pretend to understand): he wants to entertain all of us, most of us anyway, and some want the Jedi and the Dark Side and some the fun banter and some the action and The Force Awakens has all of it. It just doesn't mesh as well as the classic films did.

I almost wish Lucas was a little more involved with the script,

no scrap that.

Right!

Wow.

I was underwhelmed, but also positively surprised. I didn't really miss Luke. I didn't get the feels when Han was murdered. Not even Chewbacca was too upset about it. I expected the most primal rage ever from our favorite Wookiee.

I said the film fell apart, and I feel it did, and that I'm still picking up the pieces. The film, already longer than most Star Wars films (unless I'm mistaken), feels like an abridged version of Abrams' vision. Between scene jumps, you just feel there's more that should have been in here. This becomes the most apparent in the last third of the film, where everything is thrown at you and you never get the time to let stuff sink in (oh Blast I'm getting old...is that it?), it's as if the playful, delightful opening makes the rest of the film more cramped. Eventually you almost sense the checklist boxes being checked off. In its hurry to get to Luke, it fails to account for a number of things that brings up that feeling of missing scenes - there's no transitional scene for Poe between Jakku and Takodana; Hux, where did he go? Maybe while I blinked. Phasma? She in the movie? Yes, I saw her. She even had a few lines of dialogue. And I'm fine with that, she wasn't very interesting anyway, but where did she go? Of course, you can let certain threads dangle loose by the end of a first film in a trilogy; not everything needs closure - but in this case it felt rushed, jumbled, likewise with the aftermath of Han Solo's fate, no I didn't need an overblown funeral or anything, but acknowledging that Solo's arc is over, that's something the film needs for its own internal consistency (IMO).
There's a thin line between too much information and too little, and perhaps this film veers too much toward too little. I don't know.

All this being said,
I can see how people can really enjoy this film for what it is. It's fun.
But for a grognard like myself, it was a leaky affair, and as the end credits rolled...
...I didn't feel terribly excited. Of course, three years of pent up anticipation was finally released,
and the most important thing for me was whether my nine-year old liked it.
The evidence was clear: He hadn't opened his bottle of Urge, he hadn't opened his candy bag, and he had barely touched the popcorn.
He'd been too hung up in what was going on in that galaxy far, far away.
Kylo Ren was a tad too much for him, and he shed a tear for Han, but on the way home he was laughing and retelling the fun scenes with Rey and Finn and Chewie and Han.

I was left with the feeling that I had been entertained, but in the same way I am entertained by a Star Wars novel or comic. It's nice and all that, but not really-really Star Wars....in the sense that I feel that we could have had a better story than this. What was I worried about before going in? The story.

As of now, I'd rank it definitely above the prequel trilogy-
if the film has been as consistently good as the first twenty minutes, I'd rank it above Return of the Jedi no doubt.

I must add that I saw the film in 3D, which to me gave it a look that reminded me more of, say, Marvel movies. A proper 2D viewing is in order, I suppose. In conclusion (I need to get in time for a match of Battlefront before bedtime), good stuff and bad stuff. Usually not as good as the classics, and usually not as heart-breakingly bad as the prequels.

For Episode VIII, my wish list is short:
* More Rey and Finn and definitely more Poe Dameron
* Stop mimicking the existing films and come up with fresh plotlines
* Give me a good explanation as to why Luke Skywalker is a hermit.
* Ditch Snoke

Things the film seemed to allude to:
* Rey is Kylo's sister
* The Force awakened in Rey and she is not Kylo's sister
* Kylo and Rey were both at Luke's Jedi temple

Oh man I can't even stop writing. Why didn't I have more feels?
Will I like it more next time? Maybe?

Let's see anything I forgot...oh, yes, Maz Kanata! Where did she go, anyway? Unlike Snoke she wasn't too bad. She did stick out as a mocap, but the character was wisely not as Yoda-ish as I had feared. Neither was she very memorable. The sequence in her castle was busy, will be a fun bit to rewatch to spot all the different aliens etc. Place looked a little too much like a medieval tavern though I had to laugh when the characters entered.

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YES! WHY DOES LEIA THINK LUKE CAN HELP HER AND THE RESISTANCE AFTER ABANDONING THEM FOR 3 DECADES? ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING HE DID NOTHING AFTER KYLO WENT CRAZY AND KILLED EVERYONE. Its illogical. Lukes character is tarnished because of it.

Ree Yees · Dec 16, 2015

My ears are fine, thank you.

But yes, the plot is so thin I was afraid to breathe on it. It's dumb. Convenient to the point I felt myself caring less for each scene.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 16, 2015, Original Post Date: Dec 16, 2015 ---

I believe I've reached a conclusion. After one initial viewing.

SW 10/10
ESB 10/10
ROTJ 7/10
TPM 4/10
AOTC 1/10
ROTS 2/10
TFA 8/10

Pomojema · Dec 17, 2015

Chowdahead said: ↑

YES! WHY DOES LEIA THINK LUKE CAN HELP HER AND THE RESISTANCE AFTER ABANDONING THEM FOR 3 DECADES? ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING HE DID NOTHING AFTER KYLO WENT CRAZY AND KILLED EVERYONE. Its illogical. Lukes character is tarnished because of it.

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Use the goddamn spoiler tags. And turn the caps lock off while you're at it. Jeez.

semiote · Dec 17, 2015

Hi everyone. Just saw the first show here in Seoul. Here are my spoiler-free impressions, followed by some spoilers:

TFA has a lot of parallels to ANH and ESB. You don't need to have watched anything else but the trailers to know this: desert planet, villain in a black mask, snow planet, and so on. In this respect, Abrams made a safe, conservative movie. However, the most important parallels are the ones that aren't obvious unless you watch the movie and pay attention. The emotional beats of the film are just what they need to be, and they play with and /or invert key emotional beats from the OT. I read every spoiler I could get my hands on, but I was still very moved by these key moments of the film.

Kylo Ren is, for me, more frightening than either Vader or Palpatine ever were. As a little kid, I found the latter two characters quite creepy and menacing, but this is because at so young an age, I could buy into the trope of PUURE EEEEEVILL! But Kylo is a villain who frightens me as an adult, because he is insane: unstable, sentimental, and childishly violent. Adam Driver has just the right kind of intensity to pull him off.

Rey and Finn are great characters who have a real chemistry. One thing I was afraid of was overly on-the-nose "Look at me, I'm a female bad-ass!" moments, which would have felt, frankly, insulting to my intelligence: as if the filmmakers were trying to manipulate my sincere feminism to make a few bucks off me. Fortunately, Rey is a very balanced character: hardened, agile, and clever; but also vulnerable. Finn is fearful and self-interested, but, while he doesn't really buy into grand causes, he is also humane and willing to sacrifice for those he cares about.

Harrison Ford nailed Han. No complaints there. However, Carrie Fisher seemed uncomfortable in front of the camera, and in her scenes with Han, she couldn't quite rise up to his level of real, palpable emotion.

Overall, the film raises more questions than it gives answers. But this is what made ANH great, so I'm perfectly on board. Remember: when audiences first saw ANH, they didn't know what the Clone Wars were, or the Kessel Run, or what species the dozens of aliens in the Mos Eisley cantina were from; they didn't know much about the Republic, or anything about how the Empire can into power; they didn't know anything about Anakin Skywalker except that he was a pilot and Jedi who was friends with Ben Kenobi: they didn't even know his name. All of this suggested a rich world behind the scenes, which is what grabbed so many people in the first place. TFA is similar. There is lots more to find out about the world, about the characters' back stories, about the history of the 30-some-odd years that have passed since ROTJ. And I love that about the movie!

Snoke looks very much like the concept art photos. He may very well be Darth Plagueis, or another Sith lord, or even something entirely new. For now, his presence is much like the presence of Palpatine in ESB: the mysterious figure who somehow has a hold on a masked dark lord.

When I said above that there are quite unique parallels to the OT in this movie, I meant Kylo Ren. He's a dark side Luke Skywalker in many respects. Snoke is his Yoda, and he thinks of his father in a way that is the mirror image of how Luke does in the OT.

There have been rumblings of a romance between Rey and Finn. This isn't quite correct: at least, not explicitly. What's obvious is that they form a quick bond, and come to genuinely care for each other. Finn is obviously enamored of Rey, but you never get the sense that he's the prince coming to the aid of thee damsel in distress: they are friends first, and there are only subtle hints at the possibility of something more. I'm sure there will be Rey-Finn shippers, and anti-shippers as well, and that we'll see threads that are hundreds of pages long on the topic before episode VIII comes along.

Some people are claiming that Luke's having gone into hiding ruins his character. I disagree in the strongest possible terms. His move here is just like what Yoda and Ben did after the PT. They went into hiding, because keeping the legacy of the Jedi intact by taking it into hiding was the only option. When Yoda and Obi-Wan did it, there were still many allies of the Jedi and the Republic around, organizing a rebellion, fighting the Empire. But the risk of helping them was too great. And Yoda and Ben were people: people devastated by ultimate loss, ultimate betrayal, and by their own failures. Luke's story here seems to be of the same kind: he did what his mentors did, and I can't help but think that he did so for the same reasons. Condemn him if you want, but you will have to condemn Yoda and Obi-Wan for precisely the same reasons....

Assy McGee · Dec 17, 2015

This is the spoiler forum for those who have seen the movie and as such, I won't be using spoiler tags. Go to the other forum if you don't want spoilers.

As a movie, I'd give it 8, maybe 9/10.
As a Star Wars movie, it's much harder to put a number to it. I would put it 3rd behind TESB and ANH.

Initial thoughts-

Daisy Ridley was great in it. Very likeable and you instantly cared for her.

John Boyega was very funny and really enjoyable to watch.

Much prefer Kylo Ren without the mask. I hope it doesn't return.

Phasma. Total waste. She was made to look like a clown when captured.

Hux. Interesting character. Comes across as the teachers pet. Not sure what to make of him.

Poe. Need more Poe.

I felt that there was maybe too much humour at times. The jokes all worked, but perhaps they felt out of place in a Star Wars movie.

Way too much going on. We had very little chance to soak anything in. Some of the fat could have been trimmed to allow for more characterisation.

Music. Meh.

Snoke looked too much like CG.
Some of the CG was a bit ropey in parts (not referring to snoke).

I think the characters should have been given a chance to breath some more.

Solo death was heartbreaking, but everyone saw it coming.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 17, 2015, Original Post Date: Dec 17, 2015 ---

Pomojema said: ↑

Use the goddamn spoiler tags. And turn the caps lock off while you're at it. Jeez.
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Viral said this is the spoiler thread in the forum sticky. Why should spoiler tag things in the spoiler thread?!

Pomojema · Dec 17, 2015

Assy McGee said: ↑

Viral said this is the spoiler thread in the forum sticky. Why should spoiler tag things in the spoiler thread?!
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Darth Holmes said: ↑

Edit: why did this thread get moved to the spoiler section when Trevor explicitly said there would be no spoiler reviews allowed here until friday???
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That's why. @Darth Holmes came here looking for an objective review and all he got was someone spoiling the entire movie and why they didn't like it.

I don't think it's too much to ask to put some text under a spoiler tag. Especially when this thread wasn't originally posted under this specific board.

Solo · Dec 17, 2015

I've seen it twice now. The first time around I found it so overwhelming, I couldn't fully appreciate the film - even though I was thoroughly entertained.

Upon second viewing, not only was I more emotionally engaged, I picked up on all the little things I missed. It was pure joy to behold.

Well done, JJ. Well done.

Ree Yees · Dec 17, 2015

Solo said: ↑

I've seen it twice now. The first time around I found it so overwhelming, I couldn't fully appreciate the film - even though I was thoroughly entertained.

Upon second viewing, not only was I more emotionally engaged, I picked up on all the little things I missed. It was pure joy to behold.

Well done, JJ. Well done.
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Out of curiosity (as I'm considering a second run today) what little parts did you pick up the second time?

Assy McGee · Dec 17, 2015

Pomojema said: ↑

That's why. @Darth Holmes came here looking for an objective review and all he got was someone spoiling the entire movie and why they didn't like it.

I don't think it's too much to ask to put some text under a spoiler tag. Especially when this thread wasn't originally posted under this specific board.
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I'm behind the times/ I hadn't realised everything was moved around to accommodate people who had seen in and those that didn't.

AstromechRecords · Dec 17, 2015

Chowdahead said: ↑

Even worse....... SPOILERS......., Leia and Han are so estranged that Leia sends Poe to JAKU, which just so happens to be the exact planet housing the Millenium Falcon! how convenient that this reskin of Tattoine has the falcon. how convenient that Leia is also interested in said planet for Von Sydows special map. how convenient that neither Han nor Leia communicate any of this. how convenient that a well versed Force user, as she apparently pulls her abilities out of thin air, finds BB 8 and for whatever convoluted reason gives a sh*t about getting this info to the Resistance. and none of this is A NEW HOPE levels of convenience, it goes wayyy beyond that. it felt natural in that film for Han a smuggler to be at Mos Eisly. it felt like fate that Luke found R2 and thus our story began. Tattoine just happened to be the planet Leia and her envoy get partially caught up in. it wasnt truly a melting pot of convenience until the sequels and prequels retconned it that way. but even when you look back after Empire, you still buy into the destiny aspect of the Force (R2 happens to land on the planet that the son of Vader lives on) not to mention Tattoine clicked because Leia intentionally sends R2 to Tattoine to retrieve the assistance of Obi Wan Kenobi. it felt natural. from all of the reviews i read it seems JJ took convenience to an absurd level of unbelievabilty. things happen not because the force made it so, but because of JJs shortcomings as a writer. all of his films require quick edits and a speed that hopefully causes the audience to overlook huge leaps in logic, and now we arguably have the most convenient SW yet because of it. dont even get me started on Luke, who apparently trains a boy into Vader 2.0 and decides hes so upset about it that its completely OK for him to disappear for 30 years and let everyone else deal with it. good job Luke, your best friend dies because of it and so do sh*t loads of other people. awful awful writing. out of character for Luke, and ultimately a letdown of a story

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Don't forget: STAR WARS FOR THE 21ST CENTURY...we are a culture of spoilers and rehashes and, as a business, JJ needs to capitalize on that based on what Disneh and LFL demands in regards to Bad Robot, and he's done it respectfully even though I don't fully agree with TFA, but I DO a fully respect it and admire it as a a professional and put it between ROTS AND ANH .

JinnStari · Dec 17, 2015

Mudbone said: ↑

I'll be seeing the movie in a couple days. But it seems the one main criticism that many people have with this movie is how similar to ANH and all the fan service gets tiring. Occasionally I'll read questions from people whether or not ANH will be remade or if the saga would be rebooted at some point. Seeing how similar this movie allegedly is to ANH, perhaps in a way it is reboot/remake?

Even at that, I find it somewhat disappointing that Abrams/Kasdan couldn't give us something really clever and new to the SW saga other than a rehash of previous SW stuff.

But I'm still looking forward to seeing the movie Friday and I imagine that I'll find it entertaining anyway.
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It does feel like ANH, but I assure you that IS NOT A BAD THING in this case, you'll LOVE it

Sithwalker · Dec 17, 2015

So few things I LOVED

Kylo Ren's struggle with the dark side. You can see some good in him, but Snoke is just manipulating with him so much.
Kylo Ren's lightsaber style - ARE YOU KIDDING ME? That guy fights like a monster.

also.. was that Corruscant that got destroyed ?

adamclark83 · Dec 17, 2015

This is now my favourite Star Wars movie. What an absolute blast. Rey will be a fantastic hero. Now that Snoke knows about her, she'd better watch out.

semiote · Dec 17, 2015

Ree Yees said: ↑

Out of curiosity (as I'm considering a second run today) what little parts did you pick up the second time?
Click to expand...

I also saw it a second time just now, and shared the following speculations in a thread called 'Second Viewing'. I'd love to hear your reactions, everyone!

Rey and Kylo

It's kept quite ambiguous what Rey's story really is. People have already mentioned that it's not clear that she's the daughter of Luke Skywalker. But I think there's more. During her flashback when she touches Luke's lightsaber, she first of all finds herself in a corridor that is clearly not part of Maz Kanata's castle, but looks much more like the corridor of an Imperial/First Order ship. This cuts quite cleverly to the scene of the Knights of Ren and the massacre at the Jedi academy, but it leaves a huge question. When had Rey been on an Imperial/First Order ship? And why? Was it during the time of the massacre? And if so, does this mean that someone brought her as a child from the massacre onto that ship? If so, who? And why?

More than this, if you watch carefully, Kylo often speaks to her in a way that is maddeningly ambiguous. Many of the things he says could be interpreted as if he recognizes her, but also in a different way that doesn't entail this. He knows she's strong with the force, but does he really know her? From the academy? And if so, why does she not remember him? Or does she, and never says it out loud?

I have the sneaking suspicion - in fact, I'm dead certain - that the scenes between Rey and Kylo will look very different to us in retrospect once we've watched episodes VIII and IX. The emotional tenor of these exchanges will strike us more clearly once we know what their backstory is. And if so, this is some masterful story construction.

The first Jedi temple

One of the big ideas that passes by quite quickly in the film is Luke's search for the first Jedi temple. Why was he looking for it? Did he find it? How did he even know it existed? Lots of people are accusing Luke of being a coward for going into hiding, for abandoning his friends. But if the first Jedi temple held/holds some secret to defeating the dark side, then these people couldn't be more wrong. Consider this: from the viewpoint of Leia during ROTJ, nothing could have been more mad than Luke leaving behind the mission on Endor to face Vader. If she hadn't trusted him, it might even have looked like a betrayal, like he was running away from the fight. But as we all know, this act of his was of the greatest importance. I have faith that his search for the Jedi temple is an act just like this: he has the wisdom - a wisdom he gained from Yoda in ESB - to know that sometimes the most difficult and important challenge means running away from the most obvious battle and toward a more difficult and important one.

And on the first viewing, I think I assumed the temple was on the planet where Rey finds him. But on the second viewing, I realized that we have absolutely no evidence for this. Maybe he hasn't found it yet. Or maybe he found it, but fled to another planet to avoid the First Order from finding it.

I feel that the first Jedi temple might very well be the most important story element for the ST that is introduced in TFA, besides the characters. We might not even find out what it really is and why it's important until episode IX. But it has to have massive importance for Luke to have left his friends behind for so long.

RedDog · Dec 17, 2015

Saw it last night in Prague. Perhaps mistakenly I watched it in 3D on an Imax screen. I never really get on with 3D and I was on the front row, so I spent much of the film trying to focus and be able to see everything! So a lot of the visuals were lost on me. Seeing it again on Saturday on a regular screen, so hope I can take more in then.

Really liked the new characters - Ren, Finn, Poe and Kylo are all very well played and interesting. Lots to build on in future films. Driver is excellent, very powerful performance of a messed-up guy. Boyega and Ridely also do a great job.

Maz was cool as well - was worried after seeing the brief glimpses, but really liked her. Again, really well played by Lupita

Snoke - not so sure. We only see him as a hologram so hard to get a good idea of how he looks. Very little given away about him.

Older characters - Han is great, Harrison brings a lot of enthusiasm to the role. If anything he has a few too many "funny" lines, sometimes during dramatic moments - almost as if they were too concerned about him not being "grizzly" Han. Chewie was great as always. Leia - not sure Carrie gives a stellar performance, it is quite an understated, almost flat, performance, but could work if you view it as Leia being weary, scarred and worn down. 3PO I found very annoying - given silly lines, served no purpose and felt he was shoed-in as it had to have 3PO in it. Luke? Well, don't expect much, if anything!

Story, to be honest, I found to be such a rehash of EP IV that it grated a bit. Big scary weapon? Check. Starts on a desert planet with a hero desperate to escape who does so with help of the Falcon? Check. X-Wings attacking and destroying big scary weapon? Check. English accented military leader in charge of big scary weapon? Check. Hero caught by tentacled creature? Check. I just felt something more original could have been done, especially with Starkiller base.

Story again - maybe this will become clearer on a 2nd viewing - but it seemed so easy for Finn, Han and Chewie to break into the base. This is the big secret weapon taking years to build and it is guarded by one stormtrooper?? Maybe I missed something...

Captain Phasma? Blink and you miss her... Looks cool to sell toys, but doesn't really serve any meaningful purpose.

Max von Sydow? Gone very quickly, would like to have known more about him

Some plot points which seemed very important are glossed over. The trailer almost seem to deliberately mis-direct us - was it me, or did the Maz-handing-saber-to-Leia scene not happen?? Many different takes used in final film compared to trailers ("We're home" etc).

Humour - some very funny moments, the movie really tries to have a fun side without resorting to Prequel level slap-stick. Favourite for me was BB=8's "thumbs-up"!

Looking forward to seeing it again and being able to take more in. Overall it is not perfect, some things are fantastic and some things I either didn't get fully on a first viewing or just seemed so derivative of ANH that were a bit of a letdown.

Rieekan · Dec 17, 2015

Ree Yees · Dec 17, 2015

semiote said: ↑

I also saw it a second time just now, and shared the following speculations in a thread called 'Second Viewing'. I'd love to hear your reactions, everyone!

Rey and Kylo

It's kept quite ambiguous what Rey's story really is. People have already mentioned that it's not clear that she's the daughter of Luke Skywalker. But I think there's more. During her flashback when she touches Luke's lightsaber, she first of all finds herself in a corridor that is clearly not part of Maz Kanata's castle, but looks much more like the corridor of an Imperial/First Order ship. This cuts quite cleverly to the scene of the Knights of Ren and the massacre at the Jedi academy, but it leaves a huge question. When had Rey been on an Imperial/First Order ship? And why? Was it during the time of the massacre? And if so, does this mean that someone brought her as a child from the massacre onto that ship? If so, who? And why?

More than this, if you watch carefully, Kylo often speaks to her in a way that is maddeningly ambiguous. Many of the things he says could be interpreted as if he recognizes her, but also in a different way that doesn't entail this. He knows she's strong with the force, but does he really know her? From the academy? And if so, why does she not remember him? Or does she, and never says it out loud?
Click to expand...

If you ask me, I'd say that the first place in the vision that Rey visits is actually the hallway in Cloud City, where Luke is approaching and Vader suddenly appears from the side, and begins to levitate boxes to throw at Luke.

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