Official Finn Episode VIII thread

I wouldn't mine seeing them focus on Finn being a resistance spy or secret agent (if that's what he's doing in Dubrovnik).

That was essentially Leia's job at the very beginning of A New Hope before she got caught.

Then you'd have
Rey: Luke's jedi destiny and Han's captain of the Millineum Falcon

Poe: high ranking leader of the resistance like Leia, X-wing fighter pilot like Luke

Finn: decides to lend his services to the resistance like Han, became a spy like Leia was.

 

I hope he & Kelly-Marie get a 3-4 mins scene rather than just a meet up for a intel scoop run.

 

You mean when they first meet?

We already know they ride on the alien horse together.

 

Off course Lars, I would like to see them talk a bit before their alien horse whisks them away.

 

A lot depends on KMT's personality. This is the first Star Wars movie where two young women are some of the main characters.

So I would expect KMT to have a different personality than Rey.

 

Agreed I expect that too from her, I have seen her in past tv roles where she has a personality that makes her characters interesting.

 

I believe that Finn has a stronger handle on his emotions than Rey, and at some point in the saga, he'll in some way assist Rey in overcoming the temptations of the dark side. How? I'm not quite sure.

 

I can definitely see that happening

 

This is a nice commentary on the social/identity politics of TFA (something which frequently pops up in Finn threads) but, without trying to sound too blunt, it is irrelevant to my post. I don't know if you assumed I was black but I'm not, I'm a white male, and my hopes for Finn as a character had nothing to do with the fact that he was played by a black man. Whether his character was treated the way he was in TFA because he was black I can't say and frankly I don't really care, all I can say is that the way Finn was used was a wasted opportunity (and not the only one in TFA).

If I were to comment at all upon the identity politics of TFA then I would have to say it irritates me. You talked about Rey and female leads so I'll reply in regards to that, if people will forgive me for doing so in a Finn thread.

Rey. Why aren't I interested in Rey? Is it because I'm male? Potentially, unconscious bias would certainly point me towards relating to other male characters. However, I can only speak for my conscious thoughts and in regards to Rey I'm afraid I find her quite dull for precisely the opposite reasons that I find (or found) Finn interesting. I've seen Rey's character before. She's a desert dwelling orphan with a big destiny ahead of her (do Jedi recruit anywhere outside the desert?!?).

More concisely, she represents repetition and emulation. Just as the "Resistance" are a shameless rehash of the Rebel Alliance and First Order are a recreation of the Empire, although at least in the latter case it makes sense in universe. Rey will train to become a Jedi, likely be tempted at some stage before finally triumphing over her adversaries. If we're incredibly unlucky then Luke will die and Rey will be left to restart the Jedi in IX. Maclunkey Yawn.

This is unsurprising if we consider the origin of Rey's inspiration: They simply wanted to make a story about a female Jedi. That's it. What kind of story did they want to tell? Doesn't really matter (TFA can tell you that). Identity politics took precedent over story telling and I'm not going to give them a pass on an repetitive protagonist just because she's a strong female character. Hell, at least Kylo's emulation of Vader is actually a plot point rather than solely a transparent reference to the OT.

Which brings me back to Finn, he could have been something new but instead they decided to attempt to make him another Han: reluctant to fight but comes through in the end for his friend minus the sarcastic witticisms which made Han cool.

I don't usually make a habit of dismissing people's opinions or perspective in these kinds of discussions but in this occasion I feel I must disagree on whether Luke received more thought than Han or Leia. It is patently obvious he did: we see his motivations to fight (the death of his aunt and uncle); it's his father who is the right hand man of the Emperor. That he starts off quite bland and blank as a character is to help emphasise the difference when he develops throughout the trilogy, to give a sense of satisfaction when he emerges as the experienced Jedi in RotJ, they make us wait for him for a reason at the start of that film. It is unsurprising that you find Han and Leia to be the more dominant personalities when they are made fully formed from the start of the trilogy.

As to why Harrison Ford came back, it's hard to say. Is there an article in which he describes his motivation? Obviously money is a nice thing and I'm sure he has some fondness for the franchise but it's probably because they were going to give his character a meaningful send off. Evening in TFA Han's purpose is to provide meaning to another character's arc not to have one of his own.

I certainly agree that Finn has a stronger personality than Poe and Rey and perhaps a deeper character than both which is why I'm still interested in discussing him but that doesn't prevent my criticism of his misuse in TFA.

Jack Sparrow is an interesting comparison to say the least. However, the pirates of the caribbean protagonist relationship seemed to run more along the lines of Sherlock Holmes. The eccentric but skilled Jack Sparrow (Sherlock) alongside his more conventional friend Will Turner (Watson) with the addition of a more active love interest character (Elizabeth Swan). Obviously this is a simplification but Jack Sparrow isn't inept, he may not be as skilled a conventional fighter as Will Turner but he is a far greater unorthodox fighter and while it seems he lucks out in terms of planning he is actually quite a skilled strategist/tactician. Most of this is played for laughs of course but this is a disney film after all.

You may get your wish although it probably won't be quite a "military" arc. I wish for open battles and perhaps commando teams but it seems that this trilogy will follow the run and hide tactics of the OT. Besides are we meant to be impressed by people taking down stormtroopers? Ewoks can do that, it's not hard.

One of the reasons that it often overlooked as to why Finn being FS has support is because Lightsaber duels are some of the more visually interesting parts of Star Wars. This applies to melee fights in general really, how exciting can it be to watch people shooting at each other from across a room?

Also, I have to comically note the desire for a more earthly quality to a space opera.

Interesting. It's been while since I saw the Seven Samurai but wasn't Kikuchiyo the plucky comic relief/butt monkey? They've certainly nailed that part, let's see if they give Finn a badass death.

 

Yeah thats who Kikuchiyo was. its been a while since I saw that film too. I just remember him being a good character. and yeah, lots of parallels with Finn I think.
Good comments about Jack Sparrow. I guess he also played the washed up mentor role in the Pirates movie. But yeah, I think Finn is supposed to fill his role to some extent. I see parallels anyway.

 

I enjoyed your post and that's an Interesting comparison though I must disagree with your choice of words ↑. I never got the impression that Finn was "reluctant to fight" - just reluctant to fight for "them". Maybe it's just semantics but it cuts too close to the coward claims for me to let slide! Obeying his conscience rather than regressing into an order-obeying tool for other's purposes is what I like most about his character at the moment.

"Why has every man a conscience then? I think we should be men first and subjects afterward ... [if] there is no free exercise whatever of the judgement or of the moral sense ... they put themselves on a level with wood and earth and stones. Such command no more respect than men of straw or a lump of dirt." - Henry Thoreau

Edit: I should point out that I pity these FO stormtroopers - they haven't so much put their conscience aside as been indoctrinated from birth. I still don't know how Finn could swing so quickly from refusing to fight one minute to opening fire on his collegues the next...

 

Thanks. When I say "reluctant to fight" in both the cases of Han and Finn I am in no way implying that they are cowards, only that neither of them wanted anything to do with the galactic conflict. Finn simply wanted to get to a distant and quiet place in the galaxy where he could be left in peace and Han wanted to carry on living his criminal carefree life.

Both Han and Finn showed great ability in combat and didn't shy away from a fight once it came their way but both were reluctant to get caught up in a full blown conflict. Unfortunately, they felt the need to have these character parallels. Just like Rey saying she can't leave Jakku, she has to wait for her family, mirrors Luke's first refusal to leave Tatooine due to his responsibilities to his family there.

At least Finn has very few other parallels with OT characters, in comparison with Rey and Kylo that is.

One of the many inexplicable actions of Finn. I think they simply didn't have enough time to give Finn's defection storyline the attention it deserved. They needed to get the plot moving so Finn defected "just cause" and is now on the good side: Bish, Bash, Bosh. I just wish they hadn't bothered at this stage and just kept his character some random smuggler/space pirate than Rey comes across, it would have saved me so many headaches.

 

Like you said, telling the story of the origin of a female and I was their top priority. Or rather they are trying to tell the definitive Heroine's Journey.

Just like the OT is about Luke an the ultimate example of a Hero's Journey.
The PT is about the downfall of Anakin is the ultimate example of a Hero's Tragedy.

The ST is trying to tell the story of the ultimate Heroine's Journey.

There are simularities between the Hero and Heroine's journeys and probably the finish line is the same. But there are big differences.


I think this is what Lucasfilm is trying to show.

 

What are they though? What changes in the story line now that the main protagonist is a woman? Is that sexist of me or am I being progressive? Sheesh, confusing.


Is there going to be a scene in VIII where Rey speaks out about violence against women? Will she campaign against being paid less than Luke? Joking aside, seriously why would the Heroes Journey change just because of the gender? If anything it will entice them to mimic the original Heroes Journey just to make a point in regards to female role models.

Seriously, I would like the universe in Star Wars to progress/change/dynamically evolve. I don't mean in terms of any of that "Grey Jedi" rubbish or a happily ever after boring ending. Basically similar to some parts of the EU without the repetitive Empire resurgent and Republic falls.

How about following the adventures of the Jedi Knights of the NJO as they attempt to keep the peace in a destabilised galaxy without maintaining the official power they had during the Old Republic?

What about a smaller Republic (but still a major player) surrounded by smaller factions and the FO surviving to be the lasting rival of the NR in some kind of cold war. Perhaps Kylo leads as the Dark Emperor of said FO?

I trying to think beyond a single trilogy....and wow this was a deviation away from Finn. Sorry guys.

 

To the contrary, I think you are lending a valuable voice to the discussion about Finn and comparing him to other characters is a valid exercise here...

These are all very fair points. I think part of my thoughts about the evolution of the character of Finn has to do with perhaps the greatest criticism of TFA in general, but one that I understand and think was a necessary evil... in some respects.

Namely, TFA really was a re-set of the saga and unfortunately just an introduction into a new set of characters and stories. One can certainly argue that the story was a bit hollow and unimaginative. It is hard to dispute that the movie was largely emulation (and adoration?) of the OT movies both in theme and character, which served in large part to "re-calibrate" the universe to appeal to the largest audience going forward. Without getting into a PT vs. OT debate, I think TPTB wanted to assure the general movie-going audience that Star Wars was returning to its roots. It necessarily had to get the audiences interested in the new characters (while balancing that against the legacy characters), but as you mentioned, they probably didn't have time to give as much depth into the background of the characters as we the audience would like. These new characters still need to be completely fleshed out. While perhaps Finn's journey to this point is disappointing to some, I still think that Finn is one of the most interesting characters with the greatest potential moving forward. As you mentioned, he has a stronger personality and perhaps even a deeper character than the other new leads. They can make him Force-sensitive (or not), he can be the emancipator of the abducted-at-birth stormtroopers, and so on. The possibility is endless really.

This is an interesting point about Luke starting off intentionally as more of a blank slate to emphasize his development throughout the story, while Leia and Han were more dominant fully-formed personalities at the start. Han was more filled out at first, but I still think that (at least through ESB) he had more character development (as opposed to more things to do...) We can perhaps agree to disagree about Luke's overall evolution, as there is no question Luke did alot of stuff and dealt with a lot of stuff in his OT journey. But I still see him as a bit of a blank canvas as a character, which makes his re-introduction into the ST so enticing. We all want to know what he has become. I'll be curious to see what, if any, role Finn may have with Luke going forward for just that reason.

 

Some hope he will still be a jedi after, not happening.

 

Well thank you, kind sir.

Certainly, the emulation of the OT was a conscious decision to play it safe and pander to the old OT fandom who (by and large) despised the PT which has led to the stagnation that TFA presents us. Don't get me wrong, the PT was bad but that wasn't because it was different from the OT but because they were generally bad films: bad dialogue; bad acting; bad plot too in some places. The re-calibration of the universe as you call it is actually reseting it which is highly frustrating, to say the least. In regards to the Resistance I'm as close as I can be to hating a fictional organisation, I wait with baited breath on whether the NR is actually gone in VIII and we will have to follow this bunch of transparent wannabes.

Ahem, that rant aside. It's not so much that we could have done with more backstory on Finn but that his personality doesn't match what little background information we have on him. Can anyone actually explain to me (outside lazy writing of course) why Finn was reluctant to shoot civilians? He was raised by the FO to do such acts, his morality would have come entirely from the FO so why would he hesitate? Furthermore, why is he the most socially well adjusted character in TFA? He was raised in a military environment without parents (and a name) so why is he so normal? Honestly, I just feel too much was ruined with Finn for me to fully enjoy his arc. Of all the characters to pick to be the comic relief, why would you pick the brainwashed space spartan? Poe should have been the comic relief or least they should have kept Finn a farmer/smuggler/whatever like they were originally planning.

Could someone remind me of what "Sam" was originally planned to be?

That's just the thing though, I'm not convinced that Finn and Luke will even meet during VIII from what we've heard so far at least.

@Grand Master Galen Marek Is that Finn freezing a blaster bolt?

 

Yep with the force, but Kylo does it better.

 

Being a Monday inspiration.