SPECULATION Putting the pieces together . . . The villains of The Force Awakens and beyond.

The concept art looks like he's standing on the same hill on Mustafar where Anakin was burned up. Only he has the "high ground"

What if the rumors of a scene where Luke, Han and Driver(Kylo unmasked) are together and Han has his weapon pointed at Luke are true. What if Luke disables Han and then battles Kylo, beating him up really good. Then Han, almost dying, reaches out to Luke to not kill him because he's his son (reminiscent of Luke's own situation in ROTJ). Luke spares Kylo as Han pleads on his death bed that his son won't turn fully and can be saved just like Anakin. Luke, shaken, pulls back. At that point Rey and Finn arrive. Next scene we have Kylo with cyborg prosthetics talking to his sister Rey, standing behind her with his hand on her face just like the concept art picture. He's telling her, look what Luke did. He almost killed me and father. Finally, we see Kylo in his quarters and he pulls out the Vader mask he collected. He starts talking to it saying things like " they don't fear me, they think I'm a joke. But they feared you!"

Not sure how any of that could fit the movie as a whole, but it's fun to speculate.

 

I've never quite understood why a lot of people expect Luke to have become "the most powerful Jedi ever." Quite the contrary, I can't imagine how he could become outrageously powerful considering his limited training through ROTJ. I also don't imagine that the counsel of force ghosts is anywhere near as instructive as hands on training by a Jedi master to his padawan.

I know alot of people want to see ridiculous force powers in TFA used by Luke, but to me it just doesn't make much narrative sense considering his background. Part of the appeal of the OT, for me anyway, was the idea that relative everyman characters (a farm boy and a smuggler) could do great things and in the case of Luke, even find unknown mystical powers at their disposal. The OT sort of ruined that vibe for me with the whole "high midichlorian Skywalker bloodline" thing.

In any event, a relatively weak Luke (compared only to the expectations of the most-powerful-Jedi-ever crowd) makes more sense to me, in part also based on the limited narrative that has actually been suggested in TFA: That the Force and its use has been slumbering (and perhaps rarely seen anymore) and is just now being awakened after a period in which such ancient religions have become more of a myth than reality. Based on this, I won't be disappointed with a relatively weak Kylo Ren, or whoever the long term baddie is, as it would make for a better story to see his powers develop over the trilogy, just as our new heroes presumably will.

This may not be a very popular viewpoint with regard to Luke, but to me it makes the most sense based on what we actually know. I would be very curious to hear the thoughts of others on this point (don't know if it has already been discussed on a dedicated thread, but if so I would appreciate it if someone could link it... thanks!)

 

Spoiler alert, Spoiler alert!
It has a Darth wee-wee

 

Fartkraum, I'm not suggesting that Luke actually lose power, I just don't understand how he would have developed into the all-time-greatest... unless he went on some grand quest to find ancient Holocrons to learn from. That is actually what I think he would do and would be a logical reason for him to have been gone for the last 10-30 years as rumored. It also fits nicely with the idea of an ancient Sith and Jedi relic hunter... I'd still like to see that character be Luke. Doesn't mean he has to have turned bad either, just trying to gain as much knowledge as possible.

 

Yeah he has to be more skilled and knowledgeable but as far as a super Jedi...nah. Just needs to be powerful enough that he is both formidable and intense as a Jedi master. If we get "awe shucks guys, I was gunna get strong but really needed some power converters ugh!" Whiney Luke then that ruins it. Wise, strong In the force, and a true master....or he is a waste of time to me. I agree, though, that he doesn't have to be a living God.

 

I have a hard time thinking Driver would take the Ren role if he was fully aware it would mean he'd be a faceless cyborg in EP8 then maybe part of EP9.
Actors, even young actors want to be SEEN.
The movie stars want to get more work and you can do that if your biggest role is a robot or a monster where no one sees you.
Many Hollywood types & industry insiders say no one produced a action film version of Halo yet because no actors want to play the Master Chief character.
Kurt Urban played Judge Dredd in the recent sci fi remake & didn't take his mask off. That film was a dud at the U.S. box office.

 

I agree. I think as with every topic about TFA too much stock is being taken in the concept art. We don't know what is going on in any of the images and they probably changed SO much by the time shooting began. I don't think we are going to have another injured to the point of being mostly cyborg villain again. I think if Driver is Kylo he is just going to be as he is with a mask. I think its more likely the cyborg is Serkis but we still know so little to try to put anything together and I'm sure if anything is locked up tight in secrecy...it will be what exactly is going on with the villains of TFA

 

LOL x 100!!!

A financial dud but a growing cult favorite like the orginal Predator. It wasn't the mask the issue, it was the non-existing marketing campaign for a R rated film.

It was British / South African production that insisted to not sell to a power house like Sony and etc, and suffered the consiquencies of not investing in marketing.

It had zero to do with Urban being true to the source material of always wearing a mask.

Your comment contradicts Oscar winners always voicing obscure characters in animation films.

 

I have some ideas

I feel like the ideas of a character being a "relic hunter" or even a "sith wannabe" were sparked by the picture of the cyborg holding vaders mask, and maybe the idea that kylo rens lightsaber is a relic.

Honestly there's other reasons why the character would be holding vaders mask and I don't think the lightsaber is a relic.

As for the cyborg holding the mask:
Imagine that the emporer had a tracking device built into Vaders suit, you know, just to keep tabs on him, he could have been a possible threat. The heads of the empire could see this info to if they really needed to, somone like tarkin or another might keep an eye on vader.

So after the Emperor is killed and the death star blown up the Empire is scrambling, they don't know what to do next.

The remaining empire may know that the Emporer died, they would probably just assume he died beacuse they couldnt make contact with him after the deathstar was destroyed. But they think to check on Vader, they try to find his last known location from his tracking device, leading them to the burnt and damaged mask. They bring it back on board for proof to the empire. This would explain why its on board someone's ship in the cyborg picture.

Its possible that the cyborg is holding the mask knowing that its up to him to lead the empire now that the Emperor and Vader are dead, its possible he's even looking at Vaders mask in a condescending way, he could know that Vader died as a traitor and a Jedi.

The scrambling empire could have brought the mask onboard a ship where the cyborg villain comes later from somewhere else look at it and then speak to the remaining leaders of the empire on board.

I think its possible that Kylo Ren is Rey's brother, but he could be someone else, who is really skilled, and that tri-beam lightsaber is probably not a relic, its probably a new model that when coupled with Kylo's style of fighting is a huge new threat to any Jedi. I found 2 Youtube videos explaining how the lightsaber would be used with a "European Longsword" style of fighting, and would not be risky to to the wielder. Also, the sideblades are probably more for offense, used to cut of the opponents hands/arms.

 

Interesting ideas. I will say though the ideas about a relic hunter or a someone collecting Sith artifacts come from people who (grain of salt here) have sources closer to the film than the average person. So its not just analysis of the pictures its the pictures and the bread crumbs that people have heard from a few places.

 

This has probably been mentioned, by Kylo's helmet looks a lot like early McQuarrie concepts for Vader's....

 

At this stage as I'm convinced there's more than 2 villians, I'm more interested in their motives.

In most cases, from a point of view, villians aren't really evil in idealogies, just a different way of carrying them forward.

If Driver/Kylo is the main villian, then surely something will have triggered him? Maybe he believes the war should have ended years ago, and feels the former rebels have become an war machine themselves, lost in the quest for victory, and perhaps what pushes him over that edge is either:

1. Luke Skywalker refusal to aid bring an end to the war?
2. Death of someone close to him, like Han and Liea if he's their son?
3. Being rejected from the ways of the force.

 

Here's my theory: the Empire is collecting artefacts required to resurrect Plagueis. They want a Sith back at the helm. The plan is scuppered, however, when a key component (McGuffin) is stolen and passed on to Kylo Ren. Kylo is working for a shadowy "Master" he hears in his dreams who he believes to be Plagueis. Kylo is working to resurrect Sideous' one-time master in the hope Plagueis will help him hone his own skills. However, when Kylo delivers the artefact to the agreed rendezvous he gets to meet his master face-to-face. It isn't Plagueis: it's Luke Skywalker, and he wants to resurrect Plagueis so he can kill him once and for all. Plagueis' "spirit" persists in some form and his ethereal presence has been growing, driving Luke insane by "plaguing" his thoughts with requests for a rebirth. Han follows Kylo to the rendezvous in the hope of stopping the resurrection. Luke is forced to maintain his deception in order to gain the artefact from Kylo; this is why Han and Luke are seen squaring off with weapons drawn. When Kylo learns the truth - he has not been in telepathic contact with a Sith, he has been tricked by a Jedi - he loses it, forcing Luke to defend himself. Kylo is bettered and leaves with Han bitter and injured and determined to take his revenge.

The resurrection does not take place, leaving the return of Plagueis for Ep VIII. Neither is made entirely clear what Luke is trying to achieve, leaving his position in doubt at the end of the film.

Speculation is fun....

 

This leaves it open for that extra scene gimmick after the credits. I, personally hope they won't do that. It's too owned by Marvel.

 

I'm both amazed and frustrated by J.J. Abrams. This guy's mystery box is KILLING ME, especially since Oscar Isaac said we all may be way off of the story. No, but in all seriousness, I have this gut feeling Kylo made this mask to charade as Vader from the burnt remains on Endor. Anakin, as Lucas stated, is the biggest figure in this saga - it's Anakin's story. Maybe this movie has to do with Luke, the new Jedi, Kylo charading as Vader, Serkis as a Whills Shaman or Darth, and Anakin playing into the movie somewhere. I just get that feeling

 

We have to also consider it was about anakin when Lucas was in control. He's just sniffing his big wad of money now. Abrams and co. may have used some elements of Lucas' stories he had in mind for more films but we know already they are disregarding a lot of things also.