Reducing the backlash by making snoke into the prime jedi

Palpatine literally orchestrated such an event on Jakku in the aftermath books as part of his contingency. He wanted the galaxy destroyed if he died. A force well opened up on Jakku and this is what pulled the ships to the surfaced so they all crashed. It was stopped by Admiral Sloane who sealed the well.

 

thanks for ruining the aftermaths books for me im have way through life debt

but i would be absolutely shocked if Disney foes with a plotline outlined in the books.

 

Oops, sorry my bad. The irony is I haven’t read them!

 

A fair comment in many ways, but I would say a few things:

People who make the "well we didn’t know much about the Emperor in the originally trilogy" forget we didn’t know much about Galaxy when the first Star Wars films came out, so you could have a guy pop up who we didn’t know where he came from because we didn’t know where anyone came from back then.

Now we’ve had 40 years of stories set in this galaxy, we’ve seen and read about The emperor and the Empire been defeated. So when a character is introduced who seems ridiculously strong in the force, has basically rebuilt the destroyed empire, looks incredibly old and is even misshapen like Palpatine. So then they introduce this character and then kill him off solely as a plot device, is gonna leave a lot of people going huh? Who was he? Where’s he been though out all these other films if he is that strong? and when they don't answer those questions it sticks out like a sore thumb when it wouldn't of 40 years ago.

At the moment it feels like JJ Abrams went hey lets have a Emperor like character, w'll figure out his we'll figure out where he came from later. Then Rian Johnson comes in and goes ow if we kill him off that would be a surprise and as they are killing him off whats the point point working out a back story.

Also, and this isn't a dig at you, but i don't get people anger directed at people who want to know answers, Their is nothing wrong with wanting the universe they are watching to make sense and know the film makers have taken the time to know why the universe they are telling a story in is they way it is and the characters are where they are. But since the Last Jedi has come out answers has become like a dirty word and it shouldn't be.

 

Kylo and his temper tantrums seem terrifying to the people of the 1st Order.

 

No offense taken. I don't have issue at all with fans wanting to know his backstory or any backstory for that matter. I am looking forward to the books or comic books that fill in the gaps. I just feel like we are in a this perpetual state of complaints that things weren't clarified in the movies that isn't really fair.

I feel like, especially people in forums like this should be appreciative that we do have the books and comics or TV series to expand our knowledge of that universe. Not everything can be explored in a 2.5hr movie. And I would argue in Snoke's case in particular it didn't need to be. Is it something audiences wanted, clearly. But we didn't need full knowledge on him to appreciate the story beats.

I don't singularly blame fans for this. Disney/Lucasfilm is at fault for letting people continue to theorize and give no information on him whatsoever for two years, then give nothing. It was great, free marketing for them. When in reality they could have released a Snoke book detailing his backstory back over the summer and it would not have hurt the box office take in the least and may have quieted some of the complaints as to his character being underutilized.

I just hope that we can get passed complaints of having everything fully fleshed out in the movies when this universe has always been expanded and explained the most through other media.

 

See many fans feel the story did need it, myself personally i think it took away from Kylo killing Snoke, having him kill a character who didn't feel like the writers could be bothered to come up with a backstory for, was in no way as powerful as killing a fully fleshed out character.
I think its fair to say that when ever its felt a film poses a question(and i don't know anyone who walked away from the force awakens who didn't go whose that guy?) that the films then seem to ignore will always annoy fans. You may be able to get away with answering minor questions in the books, but when the question is who is the guy who basically shaped the galaxy that this trilogy is taking place in, becuase lets not forget he has come out of nowhere into a galaxy where the Rebbelion/Republic had won, where the light side of the force had triumphed over the dark, rebuilt the empire helped turn Han and Liea's son againinst them..........
Thats a pretty massive point to miss out and go ow well we'll write about it in some book or comic somewhere. Especially when you think they have had nearly 5 hours worth of film, if the plan was not to have Snokes story be a main part of this trilogy, and they could of explained in a couple of minutes worth of exposition, which i'm sure most people would of preferred to numerous scene say BB8 been filled up with gold coins. Their has easily been the screen time to do it, but it feels like at first snoke was meant to be a main story when abrams was writing it, then Johnson decided he didnt want him to be, so the way it has plays out is like the writers don't know the answer so didn't include it.

 

Snoke needs no introduction. Like many characters in the saga who he is instantly recognizable as an archetypal figure. He's the Supreme Leader of a neo Imperial militia movement. This is seen in dialogue, clear from visual cues and understood in context. He has an apprentice and understanding of the Force.

He is understood completely in relationship to who he is and relevance to the current episode. This should be familiar as it is stylistically what we were shown through out the existing Saga.

A back story wouldn't tell us more about who he is it would tell us how the last 30+years have gone by.

As such his back story would make a great novel or told over time in the rise to the 1st Order.

 

At least a little back story is fundamental to understand how he fits within Anakin's arch and the prophecy, this is a central plot line to the entire saga and needs to be addressed.

 

This background is notable but the banality of Snoke's death remains. Perhaps changes in Kylo's character can make up for that.

Also, Hux and other antagonists must become more fearsome instead of being depicting as incompetent, although this may come too late as it will have to appear in the third act.

 

It's astonishing how they were actually leaving big clues for this to be true in the films.

I mean, have you even thought about why the First Order is called the "First Order"? Obviously it got this name from Snoke.

Which other organization in the Star Wars universe have used the word "order" in their name? Well, the Jedi Order. And if Snoke was part of the very first order of the Jedi, it makes sense that he'd use this name.

Jedi Order = First Order

 

Way too much exposition. Especially considering we already have a developed layered villain in Kylo. Snoke had a purpose and he served it.

 

Though I really like your idea, and I'm not saying you're on the wrong track, there's another organization in SW, which has used the word "order" in their name: The Empire, also known as the First Galactic Empire or the New Order

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Galactic_Empire

 

I don't think it would have hurt anything if they had added a line about Snoke or his past, maybe something between Hux and Kylo. I don't really see how Snoke fits in with Anakin and the prophecy though. The prophecy said he would destroy the Sith, which he did. Snoke isn't Sith. The prophecy didn't say anything about destroying all evil. For me, I considered the prophecy and Anakin's personal arch completed in ROTJ. Kylo continues the his legacy.

 

What is wrong is answer wanters demand stories that leave a lot to the imagination and up to interpretation to change the nature of the style of storytelling in a black hole of minutia and exposition and pretend the difference is "forty years of story" when it is more like years of their own time have passed and what used to work well for them has changed and the more that is left to their own interpretation and conversations with others is poison to them because what they now want is neat little boxes tied up with pretty bows.

Some of us just straight up don't want what you do because we enjoy fantasy and drop in story telling and don't want it ruined by now making every movie an explainathon piled up with useless rules and devoid of mystery and eventually all creativity as more connective tissue than actual story will exist to be navigated.

I also think you guys greatly overstate what you think you do know and what is known in general. After 40 years we know a handful of characters and that mostly by seeing them interact with each others and a few events. Even for the prequels we know nothing of useful consequence about Palpatine that informs Return of the Jedi and what we learn about Anakin and the Jedi Order actually weakens both thematically.

All your explaining failed to usefully educate us and watered down the characters.

If you want a bunch of babble about how engines work or need the back story of every person you meet there are plenty of hack science fiction novels that fill pages describing every nuance rather than telling a story for those inclined to read on or at least try Star Trek who will be happy get you the ancillary materials to understand how the neck pinch came to be and some warp engine designs. You can probably even bone up on the relatives of main characters if you so desire.

Or you can get yourself some Brian Herbert/Anderson tomes by the dozen to back story and explain six Dune books into oblivion if you like because Frank didn't stop the story to give you a few thousand pages of history on Holtzman engines or the development of the Orange Catholic Bible or how the Fremen came to Arakis thousands of years ago.

Some of us like the storytelling mode of the OT and don't want what you do and to change it to George R.R. Martin detailing the pattern on a dress. Some of us like that much of the story must come from out own contemplation and conversations rather than things being spoon fed. We desire room for discussion and debate. We enjoy some ambiguity and space for interpretation. These things add value to our Star Wars experience.

 

Brendol Hux discusses this topic in the book "Phasma"......it is not just the First Order......it is First , Order

As in the first thing the galaxy needs is "order"

 

I think their is a slight diffeence between Geroge R.R. Martin going over the top spending to much time describing a dress and giving a brief on screen explanation as too why when one film ends the Empire is defeated and the Emperor killed, and the the next film starts and the Empire is basically back led by a bloke who looks very similar to the Emperor with no explanation.

I agree you can over do exposition, and its a fine line to tread, but for me that is a far to big a detail to leave out, it just smacks of Disney not really knowing but wanting to make this trilogy be reminiscent of the Original trilogy without really bothering to work out the story behind it.