Rules within the SW universe.

Maybe she is. Luke was. Anakin was. Why can't Rey?
Who. Cares.
All Star Wars leads are overpowered and shrouded in ridiculous plot armor.

 

People still arguing semantics, I see.

That thing that Star Wars films have never been about.

Good job.

 

I want to be clear that I, in no way, intend to sound crass or rude in the following. Every person is perfectly free to approach SW however they need to and react to it in like fashion, just as any person inside of SW is free to approach the Force as they need.

I happen to disagree with you, so the following will be from that perspective. I hope that I do not come off too strong or belittling in any way - I do not intend to.

There's where your conflict is coming from.

I have two thoughts about this.
First, the more common one:

I would not suggest comparing SW films to merchandise "canon". Lucas has always stated that it does not govern his films and he'll be free to do whatever pleases him and if it conflicts with the merchandise; too bad.
That carried over to Disney when Lucas handed it off to them.

Back in the day, we had absolutely zero heads up that you could shoot lightning from your fingers or that Palpatine was a super powerful Force user.
Heck, we had zero heads up that you could lift things up off of the ground using the Force. It just popped into existence in ESB.

Star Trek, on the other hand, has a very structured set of rules governing its universe.

Star Wars does not. No writer for Star Wars saga films has ever been required to go read the EU's canonical rules before writing the film, and Lucas never intended it to be that way.
He intended that the films are one reality and the merchandise another. The Films, basically, do whatever they want and whatever the Film does, the merchandise cannot contradict. However, the films can contradict the merchandise as often as they want.​

But I'm sure you've heard all of this before, so now on to something I don't usually see people point out.
Now for the less common one:

Imagine someone made as much material in games, books, and cartoons about the Old Testament of the Bible (and since they have...let me rephrase that to say, imagine everyone likes it as much as SW), then imagine the New Testament is coming out decades later and when it lands some folks are upset that Jesus doesn't adhere to the rules outlined in the Old Testament (which is an actual complaint inside of that text itself).
I generally encourage folks to treat every new Star Wars film like it's Jesus to the Old Testament, because that's basically how Star Wars treats them.
You'll hear echos of things from the old in the new, and even some events will be repeated, but the idea of rules that existed by example of what came before is gone right out the window because there's a new allegorical narrative to convey.

SW is first and foremost an allegorical epic. It happens to reside in a science fiction setting.
This isn't the same position as stating that it's fantasy and fantasy doesn't have rules.
No, there are rules - very elaborate and intricate rules. It's just that the rules which govern Star Wars govern by narrative structural and allegorical requirements and not by concepts like internally consistent physics or aptitude rules.

Basically just any holy text that you pick up.
And that's basically because that's what Star Wars is - it's a grand epic modeled after old epics of long ago and stirred up with religious texts of old.
Those kinds of stories don't move by rationality; they move by moral point almost exclusively.

It doesn't make any rational sense that Achilles' mother didn't just hold on to the other foot and dip the ankle she previously was holding, that didn't get covered with impervious magical protection, into the water so that he wouldn't be vulnerable at all.
However, it made absolutely perfect allegorical sense that this happened and that Achilles was subsequently taken out by a lethal blow to his ankle.

This is how I tend to suggest approaching Star Wars because that is the logic that it is using when it's being written for film. Lucas has discussed this several times over the decades across multiple interviews.

The whole story is effectively one massive parable.​

Just a few thoughts from a fellow sitting behind another computer screen. *waves*

Cheers,
Jayson

 

HA! LLAP Friend! (fellow Trekkie here)

I love some good Star Trek. I need both. Star Trek for the brain, Star Wars for the soul. Star Trek is where I go for social philosophy and imagining the future, and Star Wars is where I go for ontology and studying a symbolically abbreviated history of humanity.

This is my phone :


Star Trek is where all the cool technology is - there's no real solid Star Wars contender for LCARS, ha!

Star Wars computer screens remind me of sewing cutting mats.
Look:




They're planning to sew the seeds of good!
(oh yeah, I'm a lover of really bad puns as well!)

Anyway, good stuff; what you wrote back.

On the off chance that it might help, give my thread a try and see the film from a different perspective.
(shameless plugging *gasp*)


Cheers,
Jayson

 

I would agree with you if she actually displayed any real skill. It is now canon that Rey and Ben show the most “raw” power Luke Skywalker has ever seen. This from a man who is powerful himself and had Vader as his dad and almost died from Palpatine. But let’s put that aside.

I firmly believe that when you are that force sensitive you FEEL. You don’t think, you use your instincts. Where have we heard that before? Once the force calls to Rey via her awakening, she begins to feel it. This is a girl with knowledge of the Jedi. “The Jedi were real!” Han tells her the force the Jedi, it’s all true. She thinks the force is a power people have to help control people and make things float. That’s what she tells Luke. That is probably what she’s heard on Jakku and thinks a Jedi does.

All Rey has done is let the force guide her like Maz tells her. She did a mind trick on a Stormtrooper after her third attempt. Why? Because she’s probably heard about this trick that controls people. Considering Watto and Jabba knew what a Jedi mind trick was, I’m sure it’s something very well known in a GFFA.

She made the lightsaber float to her (lets face it, the lightsaber was going to her because it’s being used by the force) in her battle with Kylo. But she doesn’t start to actually win the fight until she lets the light in. Then it helps control her actions (which is canon that the force does that, ask Ben Kenobi) and she defeats Ren. She did feel the dark side a little AND Kylo wasn’t trying to kill her, he still needed to bring her to Snoke to find Luke.

Finally, her rock lifting, while a spectacle, isn’t that impressive. Luke even minimizes lifting rocks. She doesn’t pull this feat off until after she’s learned some about the force and connecting to it from Luke in the most powerful force Temple in the galaxy.

I’m sorry you don’t like the canon that has been presented in the movies, but she’s not out of place. Many of the Jedi and Sith you mention, had they been in the same circumstances as Rey, could do everything she’s done so far.

 

I would argue that there were 40 threads of fans swearing Plaguesis is Snoke. Guess what, the majority of the fans on here don't actually listen to what the film makers or the movies they are making are telling them. They take one image or one line and blow it out of proportion.

Did you read my post where I said that Rey hasn't done anything that those other force users couldn't have done? Her use of the force was no different than Anakin at a young age or Luke during ANH. Any one of those force users could do what she did in the same circumstances.

1. That's an unfair argument because that isn't the story. 2. We know Leia rejects using the force. 3. Her force instincts did kick in when she was at deaths door and floating in space. BUT HOW DID SHE KNOW HOW TO DO THAT IF SHE DIDN'T TRAIN HOW TO DO SPACE VACUUM FORCE PULL??? Not sure if you would ask that, but some overly literal SW fans have.

You just aren't seeing what they are telling you. Just like how the Snoke fans somehow see he's not dead and the Plagueis fans somehow think he's alive. Just like the Rey Skywalker people wouldn't listen to all the clues in TFA that this story is about someone from most unlikely place with no special background will become a Jedi Hero.

Gee, it's like Rey is the first of these folks that may just be feeling the force for the first time and begin to rise up. Hmm, there might just be a boy in a stable that has force sensitivity and might not know why or what to do with it.

Ask the force. The force chose to speak to her and give her the call to begin her Heros Journey. Considering the Jedi believe that in order to be a successful Jedi you need no attachments (they leave their families as young children/babies), maybe the fact that Rey doesn't have attachments and has survived living on Jakku without falling into the wrong crowd. The fact that she has a compassionate heart and is smart, focused, and disciplined may also have help her be chosen by the force.

I guess you missed the part that even Rey knew who Luke Skywalker was and that he fought to redeem Darth Vader. You missed when she said to Han "the Jedi were real". You missed all the dialog that shows Rey has heard of the force and thinks it's there to "control people and make things...float". You missed that right? So she would never know about the Jedi Mind trick right? I'm sure the traders and pilots that came through Jakku never spoke of the legends and stories of the Jedi. Nah, they just introduced a book about the Legends of Luke Skywalker that show how people through out the galaxy have been talking and gossiping about his heroics. Talk of powerful people with crazy abilities would never happen around the junk yard water cooler.

But she knew the force exists AND began FEELING it. She's like, "holy crap I might be able to do the stuff I've heard people say the Jedi did". Maz freaking tells her the force calls to her and she should let the light in to guide her and it's always been there, blah blah blah. So yes, if you hear the force speaking to you, I'll bet if you concentrate you can pull a broom to you or float rocks or trick an idiot Stormtrooper. Some will be more powerful than others, more gifted than others. Some will feel it and focus on it like Rey. Some won't believe it can be done like Luke. But eventually, yes with guidance and training, they will be able to hone their power and use it for the right reasons.

I'd love to sit in a room with the "Rey is too powerful" folks and show you the Star Wars movies and point out all of the examples of where you missed the point.

 

While I appreciate the mention of KOTOR, I really don't think it works like that in the movies.

Is Rey moving some rocks really that big of a deal?

Ani blew up Nute's blockade ship at 9 and no one seems upset about that.

 

Nobody was upset at TPM? I must have missed that

 

Missing the point, he is.

 

The point being? I know people personally & have seen plenty of people on here that have an issue with 9 year old Anakin blowing up the droid control ship (among many other issues they had with prequel Anakin)

 

The point is, no one was saying THAT is why the movie sucked. People didn't like Lloyd's performance (it was bad, but that's on George).

TPM hate was never about the power Anakin had because everyone accepted he was just that good, for the most part.
Most of the hate on the powers of Anakin have come recently in light of the absurd hate on Rey for having powers.

 

I recall people having an issue with the Force Jesus concept (me included). But a lot of those same people have no issue with Rey being powerful because "darkness rises & light to meet it"

 

Force Jesus yes, immaculate conception, virgin birth....but his powers? Not really because they knew he'd be Darth Vader.
Because it isn't as on the nose and quite frankly as lazy as going the biblical route.

There are so many Jesus metaphors in popular media, even "way back" in 1998, that using one felt dull all ready.
The force choosing a vessel of an already force sensitive person is different than the force knocking up a woman.

 

I don't see how it's different, in fact, it's basically the exact same. The force created Anakin in order to bring balance. The force chose Rey in order to bring balance. I don't see how someone could have an issue with one & not the other

 

Because one wasn't based on the premise that the force didn't wear a rubber?

You really think the force turning it to 11 in a force user is the same as creating life inside of a woman?

 

Yes. They're equally ridiculous. And I would argue that Anakin's path after the fact is made slightly less ridiculous due to the fact that he still required years of training and experienced defeat