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Rules within the SW universe.

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Sparafucile, Jan 3, 2018.

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  1. BobRoss

    BobRoss Guest

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    What happens if it turns out that Rey was special, not through parentage but for some other reason.
    Look it's simple. Other's couldn't do what she. Unless you provide a solid reason whey Rey CAN and in comparison all the others COULDN'T your argument is invalid. And don't come up with Luke's raw strenght quote, it's not like he is familiar with only a fraction of the forceusers in canon. Rey is an irregularity and this irregularity needs to be properly adressed.
     
    #41 BobRoss, Jan 4, 2018
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  2. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    No. It. Didn't. He was 9. Destroyed a major ship. Won a race no human had won. Built a droid. Bagged Natalie Portman.
    What Maclunkey training did he have?

    Anakin's path is 6 movies.
    Rey has 2.

    Let's chill out here.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 4, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 4, 2018 ---
    Can you prove that no one else could do what she has done?
    I can prove Luke did a lightsaber pull with no training. So doesn't that sort of invalidate your point?
     
    #42 RoyleRancor, Jan 4, 2018
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  3. BobRoss

    BobRoss Guest

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    The burden of prove is not upon me. Do I have to prove that the Emperor could not channel lightning form his d*ck? That Maul could not crush the entire planet of Coruscant by using the force? That Mace Windu became a Jedi master after only 2 days of training? It's simple. We make observations and based on them we create a set of knowledge that allows us to make assumptions how other scenarios should play out. For example we have never seen a Padawan or any other force azubi use the force mindtrick therefore we assume its a difficult thing to do. There are however only a few instances where mindtricks appear in Canon so this point is legitimatelly up for debate. Other forcepowers are used much more frequently though which means that the rules are much clearer. We have seen many uses of telekinesis but we have never seen an equally impressive display if telekinesis like the one done by Rey on Crait. Therefore it needs to be adequately explained or it defies expectations for no reason whatsover. There's no need for Rey to be this powerful. The question is not "Why shouldn't she be able to do it?", the question is "Why should she be able to do it?". A question that becomes even more troubeling for Rians script when it's modified to "Why should ONLY SHE be able to do it?"
     
    #43 BobRoss, Jan 4, 2018
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  4. Aglarion

    Aglarion Force Sensitive

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    Do you really think that is a fair comparison?

    The jedi trait of the force providing what appears to be quick reflexes and applying that to piloting was a very basic and intuitive skill, this was established in ANH, Luke could use it, Anakin could use it and Rey could use it. Anakin destroyed that ship mostly by pure luck, not a major display of jedi techniques. Built a droid? So what?

    Luke struggled to pull that lightsaber after receiving some lessons from Ben and 3-4 years of practice, don't you think that is a big difference?

    "Bagged Natalie Portman": Ok you got me there, you win.
     
    #44 Aglarion, Jan 4, 2018
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  5. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    You said she could do what others couldn't.
    I proved others did. Now it's your turn to prove that what she did is so wildly unbelievable...other than ya know, just saying it.
     
    #45 RoyleRancor, Jan 4, 2018
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  6. BobRoss

    BobRoss Guest

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    yoda stones.png
    rey stones.png
    boulders.png
     
    #46 BobRoss, Jan 4, 2018
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  7. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    "In my experience, there's no such thing as luck."
    I'll just leave that quote there to explain what I think about attributing Anakin's success to luck.....

    Luke was frozen upside down in a wampa cave, he's panicking, not focused and he's always had issues just giving into the force. Once he calms himself it comes right to him. Rey just seems much more willing to let the force do it's thing.
    And if you watch TFA, it doesn't go straight to Rey. It struggles. Is it struggling with Kylo? Or is Rey just mimicking Kylo to get it herself?
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 4, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 4, 2018 ---
    Sigh.
    You must literally be the least fun person at a party. Seriously.

    Lifting heavy blast is lifting heavy blast. It's Star Wars. You are putting way too much thought into something that isn't a big deal just for the sake of being mad at a powerful Jedi lady.
     
    #47 RoyleRancor, Jan 4, 2018
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  8. BobRoss

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    That's the only answer you have? I iposted these images because you wanted me to give you prove. I am sorry I did you a favour and backed up my claims with evidence. But the good thing is I am open to change my mind as soon as contrary evidence comes in. Find a canonic source of a a noname force azubi displaying telekinesis to the same degree and I will happily change my mind. And while youa re at it please explain to me why Rey needed to lift a landslide fo rocks instead of just a rock or two creating a hole to squeeze through. Because I seriously don't know why Rian made Yoda look like a bloody beginner just to have a cool VFX shot
     
    #48 BobRoss, Jan 4, 2018
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  9. Boss Vos

    Boss Vos Rebel Official

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    Least fun person at a party? Offended because he provided proof?

    "Powerful Jedi Lady" please don't bring gender into this. Rey's gender has nothing to with this - she's just overpowered.
     
    #49 Boss Vos, Jan 4, 2018
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  10. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    Size matters not.
    Yoda says this in ESB.

    The size of the object when lifting has no bearing on anything if you believe in the force.
    This has always been Luke's issue through ROTJ. He was always resistant to just letting the force take over. Obi-Wan had to tell him. Repeatedly. Yoda had to tell him repeatedly. Rey just let's it happen. In a way, she's too naive to realize exactly what she's being asked to do. Luke Vhlor and moans about it being too difficult. Rey just does it.

    Rian did it because that's essentially what Star Wars on film is. Setting things up for cool shots and kick ass moments.
    Why did Lucas have sound or explosions in space when air is needed for combustion? BECAUSE IT SOUNDS AND LOOKS COOL AS blast.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 4, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 4, 2018 ---
    Trying to break Star Wars down into scientific terms automatically makes you the least fun person at a party because you probably try to explain why people like beer instead of just having fun.
     
    #50 RoyleRancor, Jan 4, 2018
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  11. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    Couldn't or you just haven't seen it because it didn't fit in the story for that person?

    I love how somehow the dialog from Luke saying how "he's seen this raw strength only once before, in Ben Solo" is DISCOUNTED BY YOU! WHO THE HELL ARE YOU TO TELL LUKE FREAKING SKYWALKER WHAT IS POWERFUL OR NOT? You seriously down play Luke's connection with the force. ARE YOU BLOODY HIGH? Why because you've watch the Clone Wars cartoons and Luke didn't? Do you see how asinine that argument is?
     
    #51 techsteveo, Jan 4, 2018
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  12. BobRoss

    BobRoss Guest

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    Don't think I'm so hung up on this because I am a nerd who likes to rage about every tiny inconsistency or because Rey is a lady (thanks for the implied misogyny btw). But the problem is that this scene dimishes every accomplishmetn former forceusers made in the past. It makes it look easy to master the force even if you don't have any special abilities/parents/backstory/training which leads to the question why we should consider someone like Palpatine or Yoda to be powerful if an azubi outshines them so easily. It risks to push the new canon into a "bigger, better, faster" direction that has ruined so many great movie franchises to a point where "One Punch Man" was created to mock overpowered heroes. And it can also be abused as deus ex machina. Prepare for more characters like Spaceleia who use the force as a cheap plotdevice to get out of sticky situations. All of this for nothing other than cool visuals.
     
    #52 BobRoss, Jan 4, 2018
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  13. DarthHutt

    DarthHutt Clone Commander

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    Just make it easier on yourselves and accept that the "rules" of SW are whatever the writer of any given film says they are.
     
    #53 DarthHutt, Jan 4, 2018
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  14. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    This is literally all the force has ever done.
    Seriously.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 4, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 4, 2018 ---
    We have a winner.
     
    #54 RoyleRancor, Jan 4, 2018
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  15. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    Proof of what? There is no proof. So Rey lifted rocks? Yoda lifted rocks? You think Yoda couldn't have lifted the rocks Rey lifted?

    Bottom line, you people are so hung up on Rey's power because your are looking for a reason to hate her character. Ashoka Tano could have mind tricked someone if she just had a force awakening and found out she's got this special power she's only recently thought was a myth.
     
    #55 techsteveo, Jan 4, 2018
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  16. DarthHutt

    DarthHutt Clone Commander

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    Nitpickers are not fun to be around, whether they attend parties or not. (emperor)
     
    #56 DarthHutt, Jan 4, 2018
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  17. BobRoss

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    Do you know the fermi paradox? It tries to answers the question why there seems to be no alien life in the galaxy. If there are thousands of intelligent species out there then why is none of them trying to make contact. "Well", you migth say. "Maybe they have this contract like in Startrek which means that they are not allowed to visit primitive civilizations". Usually the answer to this is: "One of them would ignore the contract and visit us." I used this example to explain to you that it is unscientifical to assume a universal motive when there are so many different characters in the saga. You would have to explain why NONE of them displaid these abilities before Rey. Many of the heroes and villains in Canon fought in life threatening situations. Why would ALL OF THEM collectively hold back their forcepower even when their life is at risk?
     
    #57 BobRoss, Jan 4, 2018
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  18. Grand Admiral Kraum

    Grand Admiral Kraum Force Sensitive

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    lol, what rules?

    The Last Jedi put an end to all of that.. I shudder to think what Filoni's going to do with this new creative freedom.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 4, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 4, 2018 ---
    Nobody hates nitpickers/nitpicking more than me.. and this ain't a good Star Wars movie.
     
    #58 Grand Admiral Kraum, Jan 4, 2018
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  19. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    Anakin Skywalker did at a younger age with no training. The powers he displayed are not the ONLY powers he could execute, they are the only ones needed by the writer of the story that fit.

    Everything else in you post is just a bunch nonsense to justify some weird hangup you have with Rey.
     
    #59 techsteveo, Jan 4, 2018
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  20. BobRoss

    BobRoss Guest

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    In other words: Get ready for inconsistent plots riddled with cheap copouts. If you are okay with this so be it. But I would definitely be pissed if Gandalf pulled out a gun in LOTR and shot an Orc in the face. He's a wizzard you know. He did some magic and timetravelled and got a gun. Why are you so nitpicky?
     
    #60 BobRoss, Jan 4, 2018
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