Solo "bombs", so what happens next?

The people of Pixar...filoni storytelling is medicore at best

 

Solo pulled in about half of the global number of Rogue One in the opening week. HALF! That's a staggering amount. Are there fans who didn't like TLJ who didn't see Solo? Sure, but it's not half of the audience. This film failed to connect to general audiences. Disney/Lucasfilm's first priority is to figure how what's going on there?

As far as appeasing the people who decided not to go... I'm not sure that's ever resolved or can be resolved. I've never seen a consistent answer as to "what they want." I've seen a ton of things about "what they don't like." If a group gets so upset over a single film a mob like that will never be happy and you'll kill the franchise chasing your tail.

Ultimately Lucasfilm needs to tell stories people want to see. The only stand alone people really have clamored for is Kenobi. At least Rogue One was a new story. I didn't really want a Solo film or a Fett film and apparently neither did general audiences.

 

Doubtful. And they would have had even less time to recover. Having it happen earlier in the two year cycle gives them at least a year and a half to try to regroup.

Honestly... at this point they're pretty much going to be at the 'you guys can do nothing right' with Lucasfilm for a long time. They could put out the best episode 9 ever, and some folks would take a pass while giving it two fingers up. You know which two. You reap what you sow and Rainy's Billion Dollar Boondoggle did lasting damage.

Their saving grace being that Marvel is keeping the lights on. So its not like they're going to go broke any time soon.

 

I'm curious. How does a film "fail" to connect to general audiences, when a good number of them haven't seen it yet? And of those who have . . . a majority of them seemed to love it?

I don't know. No one really knows. Even if many refuse to accept this.


Personally, I think Disney should stick to stand alone films. I haven't been impressed with their two Sequel Trilogy movies. And I get the feeling that when it comes to Star Wars, movies within a serial is beyond their limit.

 

In the context of "wanting to see the movie." People go see movies they want to see. If people were excited about Solo they would have gone to see it. For a drop off that big... audiences were never sold on the film.

 

You know what's been bugging me for a while now? Ok, people want a Kenobi film. But - about what exactly? Obi-Wan Kenobi, as far as we know, stayed on Tatooine all the time until ANH. What can he possibly be doing, that is far more exciting that, say, a young Han Solo space heist?

 

This is a very good question and it's part of the reason it hasn't been made. The best idea I have is to make it similar to Outlaw Josey Wales (if you haven't seen this film I highly recommend it) where Obi-Wan is found on Tatooine by some bounty hunters who track him relentlessly. Would audiences go for that though?

 

LucasFilm knows that people want to see an Obi-Wan movie, but I also believe they know people want an Obi-Wan movie because of Ewan McGregor as Obi-Wan. That is a problem and I applaud LucasFilm for not just making it. Why? Because they arent just making it to make it. They need it to have a good story. They need to have a good story that makes sense in the Star Wars canon that is established. They need a good story, they need a good antagonist. Obi-Wan stuck on Tatooine makes that hard. Obi-Wan leaving Tatooine also makes it hard. How can he leave and not watch over Luke. What if empire catches him and that leads them to Luke, etc. etc. Obi-Wan is hard.

As for Fett I have heard for years people clamoring for Fett and Jabba movies and I have always been are you kidding. Now it looks like one is coming and the rest of the fandom is screaming out are you kidding. So loud minority clamored for Fett. Now others are saying "What?".

I for one loved Solo and have always thought it is easiest to make and had a lot of freedom. As the movie proved nothing in it has consequences on the galactic civil war. Fate of galaxy doesnt hang in the balance. That made it work and it also made it possible to do poorly.

 

I don't think so. I find it really hard to imagine any Obi-Wan on Tatooine scenario, that would attract regular audiences. And make a Kenobi film just for the fans? There are clearly not enough fans to compensate a large-scape production of this sort, and I am pretty sure that fans wouldn't like a smaller scale Clint Eastwood western-type movie.

 

Fans did not want a Solo film because:

Han, despite his OT charisma, is not a primary character in Star Wars. Yes, I know he's a well liked and loved character, but Star Wars isn't about Han. It's mainly about Luke Skywalker, which is why Lukes is the main subject in all the posters. All the top billing on the OT posters also have Mark Hamill first, with Harrison Ford second.

Luke is the main protagonist of the OT. As he was written to be. The OT is and never was about Han Solo, it was about Luke's journey from naive Tatooine farmboy, to a Jedi learner taught by a mysterious Jedi Master named Yoda, and finally, Luke becomes a Jedi Knight who once again confronts his long-lost father and redeems and saves him from the Dark Side.

Han's role was merely as a wise-cracking, cocky, arrogant bad-boy wiseguy with a fast ship who could get Luke and Ben to Alderaan fast. Han also provided the awkward "third wheel" element into the now weird Luke-Leia-Han love thing, before George changed his mind late in TESB and made Leia into Luke's twin sister.

By this time, Harrision Ford knew his role was as second fiddle to Mark's Luke Skywalker and was a waste of his greater acting talent and skills and wanted to be killed off to allow him to go off and do other or better things career wise. But George said no, and Harrision was kept for the third film as Han Solo.

Han is just a smalltime crook in who is just hanging around in the background because he fancies Leia, a woman who is way out of Han's social class and galactic importance, which provides him with a target and a challenge. If Leia wasn't there, would he really stilll want to be in the Rebel Alliance? This is answered in TFA, when Han and Leia have seperated, Leia is still commanding a small Resistance and Han has chosen to go off and go back to being a freighter pilot (and perhaps smuggling again).

Now if a new anthology film was only about Luke, how popular would that have been, compared to Solo and Rogue One? Was TLJ only financially successful and attractive because Luke was back, speaking again and was hoped to be Rey's tutor and master?

A film about Han was made, it really didn't add anything new to his backstory, because it couldn't derail the established OT canon, which is why it was predictable and too safe. At no point inthe film did I ever feel that Han, Chewbacca, Lando or the Falcon would be in mortal danger.

There were a few minor detail things in the Solo film like the origin of Han Solo's surname origin and how he won the Falcon that were mildly interesting, but hardly the basis of an entire film. Adding in the Kessel Run was done quite badly, it felt too rushed and made to feel cheap and tacked on to check off "Kessel Run" off the geeklist for the fanboys. Also, how does the whole galaxy know about this record run? It isn't explained.

The film SOLO feels like a film which has a few minor details which is padded and filled with lots of meanlingless background bangs and explosions for distraction, to make it feel more exciting and more interesting than it really was.

Sigh....

 

My friend, this matter has been discussed quite thoroughly in this forum. You don't need me to relist them here when they are already mentioned in many other threads.

Having diversity for no other reason than the sake of diversity is weak storytelling. As an example we can look at casting an Asian actress and patting yourself on the back for having an Asian actress but then creating a character that is absolutely atrocious (and then calling it racist to criticize that character). Things like Kathleen Kennedy going to a convention and having to boast that "Rian Johnson really knows how to write strong female characters!" is weaksauce. It is one of those things where if you have to point it out, it's probably not true.

You can have a diverse cast and have it done well. Marvel has done this. Game of Thrones has done this. Star Wars under George Lucas did this. Star Wars under Disney is, thus far, failing in that regard. Maybe it's because they are more concerned with patting themselves on the back instead of making these characters deep and interesting.

--- Double Post Merged, May 29, 2018, Original Post Date: May 29, 2018 ---

IMHO, when Disney took over, they had to clean up the canon because if they kept all the post-ROTJ stories, then E7 would have been a complete cluster-mess. My pet theory is they let Clone Wars canon survive since it really wouldn't make any difference on what they were doing with E7, E8 and E9. They wanted to maintain the idea that TV shows are canon both in the past and going forward.

But now we have a situation where the TV shows and the movies sort of potentially intersect. I don't think future Star Wars Story movies will be beholden to Clone Wars/Rebels. I admit it is just a theory and part of me worries that this whole new storyline will not be explored on screen due to Solo's poor box office, but I guess we will just have to wait and see.

 

I'm not sure if this has been shared, but here's what Hollywood Reporter has to say on the matter. It can be summed up in two points:

1. We're still getting one SW film a year.
2. SW films will be more temporalily spaced out, i. e. we'll probably stick to December release dates.

 

It really is. Even some of those who liked TLJ, didn't have any want to see Solo. Because those are fans of Social Justice, not Star Wars, and are now hastily trying to claim it was because white guy leads don't work. Except Iron Man. Except Dr. Strange. Except Thor. Except Captain America. Lucasfilm tried to cater to the SJW's by having Lando apparently be attracted to Kitchen Utensils. Didn't work.

No matter how you try to run from it, no matter how much you try to deny it... its TLJ that is the root cause.

Rainy's Billion Dollar Boondoggle poisoned the well and caused massive brand damage.

Don't forget that one of the reasons they started looking to get back to Summer was to not provide a logjam in December once Avatar ramps up. Star Wars has always traditionally been a May release and December hasn't proven that it can sustain more than one major film. This is even more important now that Avatar is going to be coming under the Disney banner.

And honestly... at this point.. the easiest way to really watch a Star Wars film go up in smoke is to put it against Avatar. If given a choice, I don't think General Audiences would fall on the side of Star Wars atm, when they can get something fresh they haven't seen in 10 years using the latest and greatest in film production techniques to present a compelling story.
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As I expected. We cant discuss your list in this context if you are to afraid to even mention a few.

Show me one instance of a more diverse cast in Disney SW has hurt the story telling. Let me see where the patted themselves on the back for hiring an Asian actress? They hired 2 asian actresses to be sisters. Would you feel better had they been 2 white females? Is it wrong that RJ can write for strong female characters? Would you be bent out of shape if she said he writes strong male characters? If you think the characters werent written well thats OK. If you think the race makes any difference that is on you.

By the way the people out on twitter defending Roseanne today are claiming it is SJW garbage causing her show to get cancelled. Wait ABC is owned by Disney. I guess Disney SJW agenda wins again.

 

I have a feeling a lot of people were turned off by TLJ, capped out from IW/DP 2 releases and were scared of the production problems.

I see real word of mouth starting to change tunes and I suspect Solo will grow some legs before it's over.

 

This is like the first I saw that Roseanne got cancelled... again.

Per that? Lets not pretend Disney wasn't looking for an excuse to cancel the show, and that Roseanne didn't give it to them.

 

That's a good point. I'd add that so far, it seems like Disney have been busy bringing stuff back into canon (a ton of stuff was referenced in Solo, even). I actually had a discussion last week with some friends about how the decanonization seemed to specifically be done to clear that bridge between ROTJ and TFA, so I think we totally agree there.


One big complication of this might be this: the movies could theoretically deviate from the animation, but when we're already talking Maul then the movies are already kinda reliant on the animation to explain his presence. That's been a huge talking point lately, and I guess it could be argued that the movies could actually take more control of Maul's story by retconning or redoing what the Clone Wars already did... but I still feel like that would just really alienate fans more than it would help the situation.

 

I think they've been putting too much work into making everything consistent to retcon Maul's fate (again). But if they wanted to use him again, there are 5 whole years during which he could be doing anything, as long as he ends up at that temple.

 

Disney isn't failing with its diverse casting. It's failing because the studio isn't providing its diverse cast with genuine good writing . . . at least in the Sequel Trilogy movies. It's another story with "Rogue One" and "Solo".

The real problem for me is that I find the writing for the Sequel Trilogy very faulty.

Maul should have stayed dead after "The Phantom Menace". I enjoyed his appearance in "Solo", but he should have stayed dead.

By the way, "Solo" hasn't bombed. It's just made less money on its opening weekend than the other three Disney SW films.

 

I agree with most of what you said but should point out that, IMHO, the movies should be able to stand as independent entities. I believe the movies owe movie-goers an explanation as to how Maul survived. I don't think it is wise to essentially say "oh, you want to know how Maul survived? then go buy Clone Wars Season X, Episode Y." I also think that this new storyline should be resolved in the movies. Similarly, I don't think it is wise to say "oh you want to know what eventually ends up happening to Maul? then go buy Rebels Season X, Episode Y."

Now don't get me wrong... I have no problem with what Solo did. There is nothing wrong with showing Lord Maul in the manner in which they did, leaving things completely unexplained for now but with the presumption that explanations - and a resolution of some sort - will be forthcoming in future feature films. It sure seems to me that a lot of paths are intersecting on Tatooine and it could make sense to have Maul play a much larger role in a Kenobi film.