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Sympathy for Gareth Edwards Thread

Discussion in 'General Stand-Alone Discussion' started by SegNerd, Feb 5, 2019.

  1. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    No but you go around saying that it "stole" everything in it. How is that more respectful?
     
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  2. Rellum

    Rellum Rebelscum

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    Gareth did a great job with the style/look of the film and the creation of the characters. It sounds like there was some story issues and from I have heard a lot of that comes from the sudden decision to kill off all the characters. Tony Gilroy then comes in and "fixes" the issues. The fact that Gareth doesn't have any projects on IMDB I wonder if Disney or Lucas film has bad mouthed him to the point where he is struggling to get projects up and running. It seems odd to have such a big film that did so well at the box office and have no projects in the works big enough to get up on IMDB.
     
  3. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    I have no problem with criticisms of Solo or any SW movie, but to say we didn’t ‘need’ Solo is irrelevant. We didn’t need ESB in 1980 as the 1977 is a perfect standalone film, we didn’t need the PT, we didn’t need the ST, so it’s not really a debatable point.

    If he said Solo played it too safe and was paint by numbers, then that’s a fair criticism. Just as I say TFA and TLJ have stolen so many plot points and themes from the OT as it’s a criticism that can be debated.
     
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  4. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    We didn't need Solo though. When it was announced, most people were like "Really? Okay I guess"
    It really doesn't add anything we don't know about Han already. Which is a flaw in prequels as a whole.

    It's absolutely debatable. We just did.
     
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  5. SegNerd

    SegNerd Rebel General

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    Maybe I should have written "Sympathy for Gareth and everyone else who worked on Rogue One." Obviously it was a team effort, and I don't have any inside knowledge of who did what. My intent was not to discount the efforts of the other people. I'm just saying that I personally love Rogue One, and the director is basically the "boss" of the movie, so Gareth must be doing something right. ;)
     
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  6. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi Commander

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    It seems like Kennedy was the boss of this one if they had to bring in Gilroy to fix the film.
     
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  7. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    Who is 'we' you keep talking about? The 5% of SW fans who post on the internet? Or the 95% of fans who don't really comment on social media, don't really debate on social media, and just see the movies (or don't see) when they come out? I got news for you, I didn't hear a large buzz of fans who were yearning for Rogue One when it was announced (me included), as I can't remember anyone asking for 'A movie of no name characters to steal the plans for the Death Star!' I still remember many were skeptical of the ST after it was announced as they still felt burned by the PT (hence why Disney decided to play it ultra safe and give them ANH 2.0 to calm their fears). Again, it doesn't matter what the fans 'ask' for, it only matters of the quality of the movie. I wasn't keen on the Solo movie or Rogue One (and wasn't juiced by the trailers), but I saw them and ended up loving them.

    Again, I would disagree. I think the Qi'ra love story adds alot and makes me look differently at Han/Leia love story in the OT (in a good way). I also think Solo deepens the Han/Lando friendship, or lack of friendship and really gives some depth to the Cloud City scenes especially when they first meet. You TOTALLY get why Han is skeptical (and asks Chewy to keep an eye out), but he and Lando do have a past together from the Solo movie now that makes sense. And I love the way Han lost the cardgame the first time (I never thought they would be able to pull that off as I was expecting it to be cheesy), and how he won the cardgame at the end to take Falcon, as I could totally see how Lando still feels it's his 'baby' when they pull up to Cloud City.

    Here is the difference between Solo fans and TLJ fans, I don't get annoyed if you disagree and don't like the Solo. I'm not calling you for not liking Solo, as you have a right to hate it (unlike TLJ fans who seem to take offense to anyone who doesn't think it's a masterpiece and don't 'understand' the supposed deep themes). I take offense to the dumb argument that Solo wasn't needed, as 99% of the sequels/prequels in Hollywood aren't needed. That is why you can make the choice to see it or not.
     
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  8. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    The majority of people I saw, in this community and in others I frequent, were ambivalent towards it. If people actually wanted to see this, it wouldn't have lost the studio money. There were huge concerns over Alden being cast. People were more excited for everything but Han Solo in that movie. That's great you like it and I made no issue with that, just this weird notion you have taken that saying the movie wasn't a necessary film is somehow disrespectful while you say things like the ST stole from the OT and therefore has less/no merit.

    I agree, no one wanted Rogue One either. It was a point of contention when it was announced. Highly debated.
    Just for the S&G of it here's Screen Junkies doing a movie fight on whether or not we needed Rogue One:


    You even concede most of these points earlier.

    The thing is, I didn't say whether or not I liked Solo. I made no inferences as to what I thought of the film. Here's the difference between people who didn't like TLJ and everyone else in the fanbase right now. We're on to Cincinnati. We aren't stuck in one gear right now doing an Us vs Them bantha poodoo thing.


    I take offense to the dumb argument that a sequel can "steal" from it's predecessor when it's made heavily by the same creative team using a lot of ideas from the original creator. And you clearly do get annoyed by it, judging by the direction this has taken considering, again, I never said whether or not I liked the film. You can acknowledge a film wasn't warranted being made and still like the film. Solo was made for Kasdan as a swan song. He earned it. But it wasn't made because there was some amazing story behind it that had to be told in the Star Wars universe.
     
  9. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    And who was hyped for Rogue One, yet it made 1 billion dollars? Nobody I talked to really cared about R1, but as I said, it rode the momentum of TFA, where Solo was the collateral damage for TLJ. Now not EVERY movie goer was swayed by these variables (as once the casual fans see a movie do well or die in it's first week, they are more apt to see it or skip it), but it makes no sense that a movie about a bunch of no-name characters makes a Billion Dollars, while a movie about a no name actor playing Han Solo bombs, other then each one was a product of their release. You put Solo at the December 2016 release, and Rogue One at May 2018, and I guarantee they both end up grossing much differently.

    None of these new movies have an amazing story to tell, so that's why I laugh at this argument that only Solo was not needed. Again, I think it's the problem in the SW franchise that everyone feels they have to love everything or it wasn't needed. I honeslty don't know if you like Solo or R1, but I don't think the Standalones are for every type of fan (I wish Disney understood that so they would lower their budget and expectations and they could focus the standalones on a more niche fanbase).

    The reason TLJ is still being debated is because it's part of a larger story as it's part 8 of 9. Solo and R1 are standalones so they can be debated on their own merits and you can sort of take them or leave them (which I think is the movies strengths). If you liked TFA and didn't like TLJ, then they will always be married to each other because they are part of a narrative, ending with Episode 9 this year. That is the Pro and Con of making a Trilogy. If it all comes together like the OT, then you have something special and it truimphs a standalone story like R1 or Solo. But if you have hiccup in one or more of the movies, than they are always a part of that narrative and they can't be forgotten.

    And I'm an Eagles fan, so I took great pleasure in beating Darth Vader and the Emperor (The Evil Empire) last year in Superbowl 52! :)
     
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  10. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi Commander

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    There's some history changing going on here with Rogue One and Solo. Rogue One was the 2nd film released after a saga film. While many weren't as excited for it as some of the saga films there was much more ambivalence to the Solo project when it was announced. Rogue One was a least a new story with mostly new characters. Solo takes a character we all know and love, recast him, and oh... he was killed of just a couple of years ago.

    There was much more apprehension about Solo. Heck, a good friend of mine who is a Star Wars fan still hasn't even seen it. He's not even carrying a gripe. The film idea just hasn't motivated him to go see it.
     
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  11. Star Dude

    Star Dude Jedi General

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    That’s what I’ve heard from a lot of people, also after watching. SOLO, for them, had not really something new to tell from Han’s life that was not told before, although most of it was none-canon material so far. It just didn't generate interest.
     
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  12. SegNerd

    SegNerd Rebel General

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    I didn't mean for this to be a "bash Solo" thread, but, while I did enjoy Solo, I would have to agree that it was kind of a "Connect the dots" effort. They mostly just took everything we already knew and put it together. I think it was put together well, but unlike Rogue One, in my opinion Solo didn't add much new depth to the story.

    The closest thing to adding new depth would probably be the Qi'ra storyline - but we only have half her story and may never get the other half, so that's not quite a win for me.
     
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  13. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    It's funny you keep saying that because you are the one who was the first to post this back in May (before the movie was released) about Solo breaking pre-sales records, and saying the boycott was total nonsense and fans were hyped for the film. So apparently you thought at the time that fans wanted to see Solo. ;)

    https://thecantina.starwarsnewsnet.com/index.php?threads/‘solo-a-star-wars-story’-advance-ticket-sales-already-breaking-records-besting-‘black-panther’.54771/


    You also seemed to defend the film before it came out as you said you couldn't wait to see it:

    DailyPlungeJedi Commander
    Quit trying to position your opinion as the "hardcore fan" opinion. I'm an old fan as are many others here who can't wait to see this film. What's your motivation for spreading your negativity around?
     
    #33 Jedi77-83, Feb 11, 2019 at 9:30 PM
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019 at 9:38 PM
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  14. Xeven

    Xeven Rebel General

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    They need a movie about Palpatine and Vader soon after ROTS. Love to see Palpatine taking and teaching Vader about the Sith, testing him and lastly seeing Vader hunting and taking down Jedi.

    I would love to see Vader scare the hell out of Platoons of ST after failure by hanging them all in Force Choke. See the Legend unfold.
     
  15. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    Isn't that what the Vader comics are doing?
     
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  16. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi Commander

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    The boycott is total nonsense and I didn't say anything about how hyped the fans were about the film. The film broke resale records because of fans. Star Wars is a huge IP so even if some of them aren't interested there's still a lot of people going to buy tickets. The general audience failed to show up for Solo. If some fans were lukewarm you can bet the general audience won't care either. That was also reflected in the film scores. They were the lowest since Attack of the Clones for a Star Wars film.
    I appreciate that you took the time to go back and dig these up, but I'm not sure what you're trying to prove. I'm a Star Wars fan. Of course I was excited about seeing the film. That doesn't change the fact it was a film I and many others didn't think was necessary or the fact I saw it twice and the theater. After six months I think the film is okay, but it's not great.
     
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  17. Darth Wardawg

    Darth Wardawg Rebel Official

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    I don't know anything about Solo breaking any presale records. What I do know is I remember there were stories in early May saying it was going to be a H.U.G.E. hit, and when I went to prepurchase my tickets, every darn seat in the cinema was available. And I was buying them for Saturday night. That was my first inkling that yeah, this isn't going to be the huge hit the hype machine is predicting. I enjoyed the film and saw it 2 or 3 times ( I really can't remember if I saw it a 3rd time for some strange reason). I think those fans that didn't see it missed an enjoyable film.

    What I find sad is that it appears Disney is learning the wrong lesson from the Solo debacle. If they think the "one of" films aren't a good idea, I think they got the wrong message. To me the lesson was a. make good films, b. do a better job marketing them, c. DON'T HIRE DIRECTORS ONLY TO FIRE THEM WHEN THE FILM IS LIKE 85% COMPLETED!!!!!! At that point you might as well let it play out. For better or worse. Had LFL not done that, the film probably would have made money. It might not have been a HUGE hit, but it would have made money and been seen as respectable. Heck, not every MCU film is a ginormous hit. Dr. Strange, my favorite MCU film, wasn't a huge hit, but it made some cash.

    Hopefully Edwards gets back in the saddle and directs a film soon. I love his work. Heck, I'd even love to see him do a one of Star Wars film, even if it was only to be for the streaming service.
     
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  18. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    Disney's confidence in the anthology movies is shaken by what? The incompetent manner in which it handled the initial production and later, the release of "SOLO"? The studio suits should be. The studio lackeys and Kennedy released that movie . . . five months after "THE LAST JEDI" the very movie that split open the franchise's fandom. How could they be so stupid? Worse, they saved the barely successful "MARY POPPINS RETURNS" for a December release.:rolleyes:
     
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  19. JediMasterRaspberry

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    Bob Iger has already taken the blame and said he pushed too hard for that May release.

    That to me says that Disney and Lucasfilm are still on board with the stand alones but just slowing down the announcements and hype so they can concentrate on the development.

    Solo is a great movie and I hope we get sequels.

    I recently looked Edwards up on line and there is no information about other projects since Rogue One.

    It is like he has vanished. Does anyone know what he is working on?

    Disney & Lucasfilm really need to lift the veil of secrecy about the production because it makes appear like something went wrong but all the talk from those involved say that was not the case.

    As best I can tell Disney pushes for a dark, serious war movie so that is what Edwards delivered. Disney saw it and realised you can’t do Star Wars without “fun for all the family”. Riz Ahmed is of the opinion that reworking the movie rather than patching it uptook “guts” from Kennedy and Edwards. It seems Disney didn’t know what it wanted and Edwards apparently shot “days and days” of alternate footage. If I understand the comments correctly everyone involved was too close to the project to figure out what was the best film and they needed someone less invested in Star Wars. This was Tony Gilroy - he is not a fan and could look at it as just a movie.

    Personally I’d live an in depth making of documentary and book and to see all that extra footage. Whatever happened in the production is not going to change that the end result was a fantastic movie.

    However I understand the reluctance at an honest exploration of the film with internet culture being what it it is. Trolls would nit pick their way through the details to generate as much negativity as they could just for the sake of it. They’d also down right lie which is a common habit on the net these days - how many “headlines” have you on a news story that were completely misleading about the contents of the article.

    I’ll stop here because I have no time to rant how 90% of the internet is absolute dross.
     
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