TFA. Final Lightsaber Duel?

I think the only way a Rey-Finn-Kylo ren dual could go down without someone (Luke/Chewie/Leia/Poe) showing up to save them, would be if Kylo Ren lets them go. as in defeats Rey but refuses to kill her. There could be numerous reasons for this and it wouldn't ruin Kylo's fear factor.

As stated above If Rey manages to defeat Kylo Ren for any reason then Kylo becomes the underdog in the next film, Ep8, and Rey's need for training would be significantly lessened. And a Villain as an underdog doesn't really work, unless he really is one of the main protagonists and we follow his journey also. But that would involve the audience identifying with him as he gained power which does not work if he is the most visible antagonist.

I also think it's worth noting that based on star wars history this 'final duel' must happen near the end of the film, and so, it must take place chronologically near the 'skellig micheal' scene with luke in it. I think it makes most sense that luke be involved in the fight in some way, even if its only as a voice in Rey or possibly even Kylo's head. Because after the climactic fight, there will be a possible sad goodbye and then Rey has to go find luke anyway....so I mean, how does she know where he is? and if she knows prior to the 'final fight' then the climactic battle is lessened as all the fans will be waiting to see luke, wondering why he's not showing up. and not thinking about the fight really.

Also if the much talked about rumor is true, then it would incredibly likely that luke would feel a disturbance in the force and hop into his X-wing.

 

The flashback, probably - possibly so it could be shown Luke is fighting. But it would be odd if he is creepily lurking on our characters throughout the movie. It's possible but a little strange.

Two problems with this:
1) Why did it take him such a long time to sense they were in trouble? He should have sensed it as soon as Jakku was raided.
2) How did he get to the forest so quickly? With the attack on Skywalker base (and likely in space above the planet) it would not be easy to get into that base and the rumor is the First Order uses their super weapon killing everything in space. I doubt he just "shows up" at the most climatic moment of the movie - at least not in this way.

The only way Luke "Shows up" is if he is on Starkiller base way before the start of the movie and the First Order and Knights of Ren has no idea he is there. But then that weakens the whole quest of trying to find Luke if he was in front of us this whole time.

Who says she defeats him (in the sense she kills him)? The rumor is Kylo falls off the side of a cliff when the rock breaks. Really all she has to do is be strong enough to make him fight another day. She's been wielding a staff for years. I do not think she ever had formal training (I actually wrote a thread on it). But I believe one so strong in the force will have developed many skills over the years whether she realizes them or not.

She's around 20 years old and I wish I could marry her . But you're point is not valid. An adult vs. a 9 year old will have significant differences in their strength and experiences.

You're justifying my response by saying Luke did some unreal things. Why could Rey not do the same? She could easily be a more experienced warrior than Luke ever was because at least Luke had family. Rey had absolutely no one from what we know of (Perhaps the Vicar watched over her).

That is NOT even close to ANH. The reason Han saving the day worked in ANH is because
1) Han was in the movie already.
2) The scene was a redemption of Han's character. He was supposed to be gone already to pay back his debt. But HE STAYS! That makes us feel for his character.

What has Luke done but not be in the movie at this point (excluding flashbacks)? His character doesn't need redeeming. What our heroes need to do is successfully find him - not go on a quest to find him only for Luke to find them.

While there is a lot of movie we haven't seen or heard about, you are also implying that Luke flies on the Falcon with our heroes at the end of the movie to Skellig Michael. That is possible. But it has not been justified at this point.

Even if Luke comes to save the day, THIS STILL HAPPENS! Rey realises her destiny is to become a jedi. Who says it is all out of good too? She is likely filled with tons of anger at that point and will use it to her advantage.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 25, 2015, Original Post Date: Oct 25, 2015 ---

You act like she hasn't had experiences. She did not just use her spit to build sand castles while on Jakku. She develops into a real warrior. I didn't mean that all of a sudden she has force powers, I meant that she accepts to use them. "I'm no one" implies that Rey is someone and she just doesn't realize it yet.

Spoiler

It has been strongly rumored Maz Kanata tells Rey the lightsaber called to her and Rey is supposed to wield it. But Rey does not believe so. So Finn holds onto it until Rey is ready. Well Rey is ready to redeem herself at the climax of the movie.

It's one thing to be mad that Luke is likely not in the movie much. But it is another thing entirely to be in denile of that fact. I truly believe we do not see his face until the end of the movie. It will be the biggest cliffhanger of all time. It's bold but it works.

You act like Kylo is the GOAT. Not really. That belongs to Vader. We don't know who is the most powerful darksider in this new saga. But it is likely Snoke. All of the Knights of Ren could have force powers (the trailer makes me doubt it though). If that is the case, she is going to need more training.

 

"Chewie, we're home." was pretty much the dream reveal of Han I was hoping for, I remember walking outside after watching that.. and being like "Holy **** that was amazing" and feeling light headed lol.. hopefully Luke's reveal will be just as cool.

 

Exactly how I was feeling Fartkraum.....

 

Great stuff guys, i'm loving this thread, a lot of discussions in a respectful level, original, detailed and thought provoke posts.

Keep going.

 

Having Rey defeat Kylo Ren in ANY manner will make Ren a chump pretty much.

These are film rules. You need to know how powerful Ren is and really, to respect his power, the only person that can defeat him would be Luke.

Imagine Luke taking up Obi Wan's saber and going after Vader in part 1? He'd BE TOTALLED in about a minute or less.

I really think it should be Finn and Kylo one-on-one. Rey's time will come in 8 or 9. But for this film, there should have been a bit of history with Finn and Kylo. Maybe Finn revered and feared Kylo when he was a stormtrooper and now he has to face this evil creature he thought he'd never have to.

They fight, Finn maybe gets a bit of an upperhand then kylo unleashed and takes him out...and as he's about to FINISH HIM MK style....the O.G. Jedi shows up....

And the ENTIRE CINEMA erupts.

As for the point of the film....it's about the force awakening, in Rey and I believe but not sure...Finn as well, And that being a stepping stone for the other films.

 

I think we'll see Finn and Rey versus Kylo, who is much more powerful than the two of them because neither have received much or any force training. My guess is that Luke shows up and saves their butts after Finn gets his arm cut off (because it's a Star Wars movie, someonebody's gotta get their arm cut off), but Kylo escapes. I don't think we'll get a dramatic or choreographed lightsaber duel until Luke vs. Snoke in Episode 9.

 

Let me understand, both Finn and Rey have no Jedi training, but somehow he should do better than her against Kylo, because ...?

 

He has combat training. He's a stormtrooper. And when you hear the "Name's Finn, I'm in charge now" line that came from his toy, he could be a guy in charge of a unit. Hence why we see him with the saber on the poster.
The intention I think is Rey with the staff against maybe Phasma or Snoke and Finn and Kylo have this face off that has been building throughout the film...that's just from where I view it.

 

Being a stormtrooper means jack blast in terms of facing a force user wielding a lightsaber, Lightsaber is basically a melee weapon, if anyone is used to close combat and melee weapons is Rey, but let's move on, don't wanna start another Rey x Finn debate here

 

I figure the lightsaber duel will be closer in style to the OT, maybe a little more progressive but nowhere near PT levels of finesse. The Jedi were at their peak in the PT with training from youth, constant field activity, full force flowing for years. I expect Kylo will have some pretty good moves but the fights will have slower rhythm than PT Jedi.

My guess is that the snow planet is where Luke is, and Finn (maybe Rey/Chewie too) goes there as does Ren, and they meet. Finn ignites the Skywalker saber and Ren takes him out in no seconds flat (not kill but disarm or knock to the ground). Maybe Rey will be there and Force-grab the saber before Kylo gets it, then she fights him somewhat well due to her staff-weapon use. Rey uses a lot of anger in the duel and Kylo will play on this perhaps? Temtping her with the dark side? Ren will finally dispatch Rey after toying with her, picks up Skywalker's saber. Then Luke shows up and says, drop the saber, fights Ren who flees when more rebels arrive.

So much going on in those few seconds, his wide eyes looking at Ren like, "This real?!" then his eyes dart to the now igniting blade on Ren's saber and jump wide "OH ****!" then back to Ren as the sheer terror of "REAL" causes a visible shock in the body. Actor definitely nails it.

 

I was under the impression that line was being spoken to Poe when Finn rescues him from Kylo Ren or after they crash on Jakku. He's telling Poe that he is the boss because he possesses the lightsaber. I believe Finn gets the lightsaber by stealing it on Kylo's star destroyer and that is how Poe and Finn escape.

 

Ok where to start.

1. I know many will disagree but Luke is not going to swoop in a save the day. I just don't see it happening. So much so I am going to head over to the casino and put some credits on it.
2. Nowhere in the MSW outline does it say that Rey saves Finn or that she beats Kylo

Spoiler: Final battle

it is pretty much described like this. Finn takes on Kylo but is eventually injured. Rey is forced to take up the fight. While fighting with Kylo the planet becomes unstable and the ground crumbles around them. Chewbacca shows up in the Falcon and rescues Rey and Finn. It is unclear what happens to Kylo

If this spoiler is true, it is very possible that both Finn and Rey show there budding abilities without actually besting Kylo or diminishing his skill. They merely hold there own without being severely beaten or shamed.

 

Rey has to show that she is strong, she wasn't on that planet alone and lived that long because she wasn't smart.

great post Jedi MD

 

Seriously, great post!

 

Do you guys think that maybe several endings were shot and focus room tested?

 

There's a lot of wishful thinking in this thread as far as Luke's appearance is concerned. If Luke shows up and kicks ass in this movie then initially I might be really excited, but in the long run I'd feel like they were blowing their wad waaaay too early. You have to leave us stuff to look forward to in the next installments and tease us with things we know are coming later. If he shows up RANDOMLY just to kick ass, well that sounds like serious fan fiction type stuff to me. I agree with the notion that Rey would be much more comfortable with the saber than Finn considering she uses a staff, and also considering that a lot of rumors suggest that the saber is calling to her through the force (something I really believe will be in the movie, taking into consideration how Kasdan likes to write and that this is a space fantasy story). I really do think Rey would match Kylo's skills with a lightsaber, but in the end he would have the upper hand as far as force powers are concerned. I can see Kylo being surprised and put off guard for a moment when Rey gets the saber in her hands; the weapon she was destined to wield, which makes her more powerful. It is Excalibur.

I also agree that Rey seems like the kind of character who would jump to action if she saw one of her friends maimed and defeated, about to die at the hands of someone she really hated. I disagree with previous posters and really don't see how this would diminish any of the characters; it would strengthen the bond between Rey and Finn, complete Rey's arc of finding her destiny and confronting her past all while setting up both of their futures together, and it would create an awesome rivalry between Finn, Rey, and Kylo Renn.



Someone suggested that Rey is catching the lightsaber in mid air here, as you can see a pissed off Kylo reaching out as if he just lost something he really wanted, with Finn defeated behind him. This concept art has been around for awhile now, yet this is the best fan theory I have heard so far. Things change in the process of movie making, but I really think this is a staple moment for the movie and is something we will see in the final product. Rey sees her friend defeated on the ground, rallies herself, finally accepts her destiny, and for the first time in the movie uses the force to take the weapon which has been calling out to her throughout the whole movie. That sounds beyond epic to me, something that a seasoned writer who is educated with fantasy stories and the hero's tale would write. Signs all point to this probably happening in the movie from the concept art shown above to all of the rumors on MSW to the way popular fantasy stories have been written in the past, and any fan theories about how this "diminishes" her character because it is a "Neo moment" or because she's "just a random scavenger" sound misguided to me, and it seems to me that most of that comes from wanting to see Luke ignite his lightsaber in this movie. That's probably not going to happen folks and I'd bet real money on that at this point. This movie is about passing the torch, or lightsaber, onto a new generation (which is why this scene, or something very similar, will probably be in the movie) not about giving Luke his Mr. Miyagi moment.

P.S. Random thought of the day: Kylo Renn seems like a little b!tch Darth wannabe to me

 

Yoda was in TPM and AOTC. He was also commanding troops. His arrival isn't the same thing discussed earlier with Luke making his first appearance force pulling the Kylo's saber. Again, that is far more dramatic than Rey channeling her inner 'Trinity' and having Jedi Knight skills without training. Someone else summed it up earlier by saying it would cheapen Kylo Ren as a credible threat.

I'm pretty sure Rey will be a Jedi, I just don't think this is her fight. I believe she will be set up nicely for another threat. She's already a good fighter (if forum rumors are correct) so I can't wait for her to learn to command the force. I was really hoping Leia would be a trained jedi in this movie.

I think some people are glossing over what is a very significant clue. I'll give it another try.

Teaser #1. "There's been an awakening..." The very next image we see is Finn. "...the Darkness and the Light" I won't bring up the official poster but we know that Kylo is bathing in red light with a red light saber and Finn is bathing in blue light with a blue light saber.

The official trailer: "a Jedi" Finn's face. An almost more importantly (alluding back to the clue people gloss over) John's reaction at that point in the trailer.

There are some who dismiss all of this because they are fixated on the Skywalker bloodline. What if John lost the auditions to Ed Speleers? I believe some people would dismiss the Stormtrooper outfit and there would be a lot of Jascen / Ben type talk. But, with Boyega casted, the lightsaber and the ability to control the force is dismissed and the Stormtrooper is accentuated because we are looking for a Skywalker/Solo. And they have to be the one to save the day right?? I'm thinking not in this engagement.

This fight has been building between Kylo and Finn, this part of the movie is about them. Could the saga (and overarching story) be about Rey? Of course. I'm confident she is extremely significant to the saga and I'm thinking she will have her own nemesis.

 

You can have Rey vs. Snoke I believe and Finn vs. Kylo.

I prefer one-on-one fights as opposed to tag teams.

 

It also says "the dark side" and shows Poe