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The best way to fix the Special Editions

Discussion in 'Original Trilogy' started by Quincy, Jan 20, 2016.

?

Do you like my proposal?

  1. Yes

  2. No

  3. So-So

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  1. Daddy_Stardust

    Daddy_Stardust Rebel Commander

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    Whilst I won't wager any bets and I don't expect them to, at the same time, as devil's advocate, stranger things *have* happened. As I've mentioned a couple of times since joining here, I'm a big fan of Alien3, which many people hated. I remember in the mid-90s desperately trying to trade for a VHS copy of the fabled work print with the half hour of extra character development, it seemed like the holy grail of "what if" movies. The quality was terrible, but still made for compelling viewing.

    In the early 2000s when they released the Quadrilogy boxset with a remastered copy of (most of) the work print, I was overjoyed and mind-blown that such a hated film was finally released in its most complete form, though sadly with major audio issues since much of the deleted footage was never ADR'd. That was fine, I was delighted to have a copy that was at last in great visual quality, I could make do with some dialogue having large hissing sounds over it; "it's in an industrial complex, it's just part of the ambience" I'd tell myself.

    Then when it was released on BluRay in 2010, Fox actually went back and got the original cast to ADR over the portions with lost sound. I was blown away. The detested black-sheep of the Alien family, loathed by many, the franchise killer, had been restored to its original length, in HD with perfect sound, it took 18 years, but it happened.

    That said, I do wish they'd recomposited the Alien in much of the film, it still looks like complete crap but with all due respect to it, I guess it wouldn't be the original movie if that happened (I think I'm just sad because they put in the new baby alien at the beginning in modern CGI and its just a shame the rod puppet effects just look worse and worse as the years go by - it's like "hey guys, whilst you're in the kitchen getting yourself a beer, will you bring me one too?" - they had the computers out already, fix the rest haha). But I accept that's too much work and a pipe-dream. They were there to complete it, not fix it. And for that, I am eternally grateful.

    Anyway, the Blade Runner boxset is the perfect example of how any truly classic multi-edition-released film should be presented (and preserved); Ridley gave everyone EVERY version so they could have whatever their preferred edition is. If you grew up with his personally-hated theatrical cut with dry narration and the sunny country-drive at the end, you can still have it. Were you a test-audience member of the work print and miss the lava lamp credits sequence? You got it, whilst you remember the good old days of the Soviet Union and Bucks Fizz and obviously hating this movie. If you want to see the laser disc print with a few extra scenes that really don't offer anything remotely interesting or different since it's not 1988 anymore when having alternative footage on a laser disc allowed for major bragging rights alongside your Terence Trent d'Arby b-sides collection, even that's here. If you want to see the 1992 Director's Cut, nearly identical to the headlining Final Cut except with obvious stunt doubles and cables lifting the spinners, you can fill your boots my son. And of course, you can have the latest most perfect modern version, all goofs removed (though admittedly with the replacement 'FATHER' line) to enjoy without a single dove flying into a random blue sky to spoil the show if you want that one. PLUS you even get a hidden alternative mini version of the movie, comprised entirely of alternate takes and angles, with its own narration; sure some of it's a little rough and some of it's cheesy, but to see that world in a new way, it's a lovely through-the-looking-glass experience of Los Angeles 2019.

    I wish Star Wars fans could be given the same; theatrical cuts with every ounce of wheel-hiding vaseline dribbling off the screen; 1997 special edition of A New Hope with condom-head Jabba; 2004 special edition with better-but-still-pointless Jabba and Obi Wan Rick Flairing his way through the canyon; Blu-ray prints with lots of extra rocks and blinking teddy bears and more NOOOOOOs because they're really really needed. Whatever you love, it could all be there. Imagine a work print with the Tosche Station too, just for fun? It'd be crap, but it'd be fun!

    Ridley would think so. Ridley would do it.

    Come on George. Or Kathy. Or whoever. Light up a cigar like the cool kids and do what Ridley does.





    Except make more Alien films, he should stop that.
     
    #41 Daddy_Stardust, Jun 26, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
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  2. Darth_Ruin77

    Darth_Ruin77 Clone

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    Of all the Original Trilogy I would say RotJ suffers the most from the Special Edition changes followed by ANH. I actually prefer the special edition of ESB honestly.
     
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  3. Viper78

    Viper78 Rebel Official

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    I'd agree with this. We had the 2 disc DVD's films back in 2004 with the Special Edition version and the Original version (although these were changed to that from the 1977 version).

    I've read that there is a 4K/Ultra HD version of the Original Trilogy in the works and I hope this is true as I'd love to have an 4K/Ultra HD 2 disc version of the OT!
     
  4. SegNerd

    SegNerd Rebel Official

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    I don't understand why so many people think the special editions need to be "fixed." I actually like most of the changes, and rather than reverting back to the OOT, I would rather see them just continue to update some of the CGI.

    You may have heard this joke: How many fanboys does it take to change a lightbulb?
    One hundred: One to change it, and 99 to complain how much better the old one was.

    (I'm a fanboy and I don't mean that term as an insult.)

    Changes are just going to bring controversy no matter what. I think at one point there was a semi-controversy about a ship that was "added" to TESB, which was actually there from the beginning and just got cut off in the 4:3 version.
     
  5. ZodaEX

    ZodaEX Rebelscum

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    How does complain about a light bulb have anything to do with assisting with having it changed? Those 99 people were not involved in changing the bulb so your analogy is rather flawed.
     
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  6. Finn_McCool

    Finn_McCool Jedi Commander

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    I despise the Special Editions. I bought the 2009 pre SE DVDs and I have never gone back. Yeah it's widescreen, and the picture is grainy, but its sooooooo much better. When I bought those it was just like being 9 years old again watching Star Wars. It was like seeing an old friend, its great. If you like the SE thats great, but for me it killed ROTJ. That was my favorite movie until 1997.
     
  7. Daddy_Stardust

    Daddy_Stardust Rebel Commander

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    There's a little part of me that likes to believe that Lapti Nek has at least a possibility of one day returning to Return of the Jedi (I cannot bear Jedi Rocks, I find it literally unwatchable). For years Lapti Nek was just thoroughly unavailable, yet just this year it's been digitally reissued by Disney as part of the original soundtrack release to the movie, alongside Yub Nub.

    It probably means absolutely nothing and is just a way to make a bit of extra cash from the oldschool fans, but to have had it reissued at least means it's no longer erased from history.

    That said, it also turned up nearly a decade ago in Force Unleashed, which admittedly goes against the digital reissue being any sign of things to come, but that moment in the game did have me smiling ear to ear.
     
  8. Get In Gear

    Get In Gear Force Sensitive

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    I'd like to see any kind of restoration and release of the original theatrical versions to current specifications. Alongside the present "special" editions, which are already out there anyway, not in place of. There's room for both, I'd just choose not to ever watch the special editions, save for reminding myself how bad they are from time to time...

    As a bonus, if I were able to cater for my own personal tastes, I would want the option of choosing between the mono mix and the earliest stereo mix of ANH, and ideally this would be, visually, a restoration of a post-1981 master including the "Episode IV: A New Hope" in the opening crawl, although that is not necessarily essential - I can live without it.

    But the key words here are "I'd like to see", not "I demand we deserve".
    I already have a copy of the Silver Screen fan restoration of an Episode IV print - it's got some dirt on it here and there but it does the trick for me - and there are similar print restorations of V and VI doing the rounds. I much prefer them to the "despecialized" or "fan edit" restoration attempts, although I appreciate the effort and skill that goes in to those kind of projects.
     
  9. Daddy_Stardust

    Daddy_Stardust Rebel Commander

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    In case anyone's missed it, can I point out that Adywan has recently released his stunning Empire Strikes Back Revisited (his meticulously altered Special Edition). Smoothly animated taun tauns, AT-ST's in the Battle of Hoth, seeing the shield generator exploding convincingly, knobby white spider on Dagobah, Boba Fett's old voice back... I personally think it's brilliant and just as he advertises it - "what the special edition should have been".

    https://swrevisited.wordpress.com/2017/08/12/esbr-mkv-dvd5/

    Screenshot comparisons here: http://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/1097781
     
    #49 Daddy_Stardust, Aug 25, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2017
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  10. freviousredux

    freviousredux Rebelscum

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    Here's the thing: the originals should be the official versions, period. If they want to keep the Special Editions, fine. But give us options instead of forcing one version down our throats.

    Now if you wanted to make the SE more tolerable, I would say:
    1. Get rid of Jedi rocks and Darth Vader's NOOOO from ROTJ
    2. Still have Ian Mcdiarmid in ESB, but just have him not say the altered dialogue from 2004
    3. Let Han shoot first once and for all to stop fan complaints
     
  11. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    Frankly, I rather watch the Special Editions than the original versions. But whether I like it or not, I don't see Disney making any effort to "improve it". Judging by the complaints, I find myself wondering that the only "improvements" that some people really want is for Disney to re-issue the first versions and allow the Special Editions from the late 1990s to disappear for good.

    Perhaps Disney could re-issue the original versions. Personally, I wouldn't buy it. But I don't see why both versions could be made available for the public.
     
  12. Viper78

    Viper78 Rebel Official

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    I would really like to see Lucasfilm re-issue the original version in 4K along with the Special Editions as part of a box set. I don't think either version should be lost and this way it would keep most of the fans happy. Lucasfilm did this on DVD in 2004 after all.
     
  13. freviousredux

    freviousredux Rebelscum

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    You’re thinking of the 2006 release, and the originals were classed as “bonus features” which is the most insulting thing about the release. It was released allegedly to stop bootlegs of the OUT.

    George Lucas is a very irrational person when it comes to releasing the OT, and unfortunately Disney is respecting his wishes to never let us see the originals ever again.
     
  14. Viper78

    Viper78 Rebel Official

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    Yes my mistake, it was the 2006 release. It was probably part of George Lucas's deal with Disney that they couldn't touch or re-release the Original or Prequel trilogy without his permission. I really don't see the problem with re-releasing both version of the OT, if anything it's good to compare the two versions.
     
  15. freviousredux

    freviousredux Rebelscum

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    It has to do with negatives being allegedly destroyed (or spliced) to create the SE. most fans don’t believe this theory, but it’s the excuse Lucasfilm has made the last 15 years on why they can’t restore the films.

    It’s common sense to release the originals, regardless of what Lucas or Disney says.
     
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  16. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    That's just minor technical stuff. If that is the kind of "fixing" that people wanted for the Special Editions, then what's the big deal?


    Common sense? This doesn't sound like common sense to me. This sounds like good old-fashioned desire and nothing else. If you wan't new releases of the old OT . . . okay. Write to the Disney Studios or Kathleen Kennedy. But to disguise desire for common sense seems odd to me.
     
  17. JarJar

    JarJar Guest

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    No.The SEs are the true ones because GL says so no matter if we accept it or not.The SEs are canon now and forever.The originals are dead.
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 16, 2017, Original Post Date: Oct 16, 2017 ---
    What about the emperor in ESB? It was a brilliant change.
     
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  18. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Force Sensitive

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    I hope they do make a 4k SW. I would buy it in a heart beat. I will say, they would have to work on the GCI in the PT because Episode 2 and 3 looks really bad when I watch the Blurays on my 4k TV.
     
  19. freviousredux

    freviousredux Rebelscum

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    It's common sense to have two cuts to choose from in the same release: look at Blade Runner or Alien Anthology for examples. Disney can still have the SE as the canonical versions, while giving us the originals in the same quality.
     
  20. Daddy_Stardust

    Daddy_Stardust Rebel Commander

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    Well that was largely the point of the special editions - to make them technologically match the prequels in visual effects. Unfortunately, in my opinion (and that of quite a few others), Lucas was ridiculously inconsistent with what he changed for that purpose. So we get things like an enhanced cloud city (great) but still get the utterly terrible original explosions of the TIE fighters in the asteroid canyon & echo base (why are they still there?). Or we get a partly enhanced Battle of Yavin (great) yet still some ropey unconvincing model effects are left in and TIE fighters missing from the trench runs (why?). Or we get an enhanced Mos Eisley (great) filled with slapstick robots and dinosaurs walking in front of the screen (why?). Or we get a useless Jabba the Hutt scene that's apparently so important that its been modeled twice (why?) yet the scene has no purpose whatsoever and only serves to diminish Jabba's final reveal in ROTJ. We get more rocks in front of R2-D2 yet still barely a shot of a single B-Wing during the Battle of Endor (which were specifically largely left out the first time round due to technological shortcomings - that's surely the very definition of missing the point)?

    Most people would have been quite happy with the special editions if they'd purely been cosmetic and we'd also been given the films we grew up with together with them.

    And that's what everyone wishes the real special editions were - just an alternative enhanced version. I'm sure you wouldn't be happy if Lucasfilm changed the prequels from how you love them if all copies of the original versions were wiped away. I don't care that Lucas himself was the one who made those changes, I'm not entitled or required to like them. If a child's happy playing with a red ball and you snatch it away and give them a green ball, whilst telling them they can never have their red ball back, you shouldn't be surprised if they get upset because they loved their red one... and no, they don't care that you're the person who invented the ball. However if you give them the green ball to play with alongside the red ball, then they're going to be happy.

    That said, personally, if the Special Edition trilogy just had the errors removed, the special effects enhanced, the landscapes improved, then I'd have no real issues, but instead they're a sloppy mix of weird stupid new slapstick scenes, insane retcons, bizarre line changes, beautifully improved special effects, dodgy 90s special effects and out-dated original effects.

    Accordingly, Adywan's special edition is the ultra anal retentive cosmetic-only upgrade "if you're going to fix that, you might as well have fixed this". He's removed the silly new scenes many fans aren't happy with yet kept and enhanced scenes that arguably did need improvement to keep them closer in line with the effects of the prequels and sequels. His versions are called "what the special editions should have been", not "what Star Wars should have been". It's just a bit of fun and it's free. He's put so much effort into it (for example he's replaced obvious matte paintings with his own home-build models, CGI and sets for stunning results, even filming some new Hoth soldiers), it's just a joy to watch and so magnificently done for a home-project. It doesn't replace your special editions, it doesn't replace Star Wars, it's just an alternative version.

    Just check out these roll-over screenshots:
    http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/115033
    http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/114613
    http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/114750

    I'm not here to promote it. You don't have to like it, you don't even have to watch it, because it doesn't have to affect you. It's not interfering with your viewing experience. But I'm just saying, hey why not give it a bash, it's cool, he put in a lot of work. You don't have to, that's cool too. His is a blue ball to play with alongside your green ball. That's the very point I'm making. In contrast however, if I want to legally/officially (however you want to call it) watch the original Star Wars trilogy on a nice TV, then I have to watch new versions I don't completely like (whilst I did completely liked them the first time around), so that is interfering with my viewing experience. And I just find it annoying I have to go scouring the internet for versions of the Star Wars trilogy so that I can enjoy them again. But my thanks to those who worked hard to create those versions for me to enjoy.

    If my friend cooks a crap dinner, it's not my duty to like it just because he's my friend and he made it. If George Lucas puts a Sesame Street musical number in Return of the Jedi, it's not my duty to like it just because he made the film (especially after 14 years - I don't have the same taste and mindset as I did 14 years ago, why would I expect him to have?). I liked Lapti Nek. I HATE Jedi Rocks, I find it literally unwatchable. The film has literally been spoiled for me. So I'd rather have my red ball back.

    Or I'll just go round to Adywan's house to play.
     
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