The Destruction of the New Republic

My theory was that it was a literary device in order to demonstrate the blind commitment and absolute belief of the First Order and their cause, and how easily that fosters hate, and how palatable extremism becomes because of it. I mean we get very "Triumph of the Will" -ish vibes all the way up to how they set the back drop when General Hux delivers his impassioned speech. Many people I think have already made this observation so this probably isn't a revelation to anyone.




From a logistics stand point, I think (but I'm not sure) that the First Order was a faction of the former empire. If there was an all out engagement between the New Republic and the First Order, it's hard (at least for me) to imagine anything but a quick and decisive victory by the New Republic over The First Order. The New Republic already defeated a much larger empire, I see no reason why they wouldn't make fairly short work of the First Order, save the plot device where the Republic is wiped out, and the Resistance is left to oppose them.

Also I don't think it's an entire reboot back to A New Hope. I don't know if they set out to mirror modern day issues (as some Star Wars episodes have done), but here it's like Palpatine was Saddam Hussein and the galaxy was Iraq. Once the old leader was eliminated, a new government was put in place to try to govern democratically (the New Republic) and the threat to that now is ISIS (The First Order). The Empire had the feel of a terrorist state, whereas the First Order has the feel of a terrorist movement. This analogy is all speculation on my part though. If in the next Episodes they show a Galaxy devolving into Civil War, with many factions fighting one another (not just the First Order and the Resistance) then I'd take that as at least partial confirmation that maybe this analogy has some credence. Otherwise, it's just me thinking out loud and could be entirely wrong.

 

Yes, I think the article is partially correct. Resetting the galaxy back to a simple Resistance vs. FO, similar to what we had in the OT was intentional. But, it also had it's story telling & narrative intentions as well. Having the FO destroy the Republics capital system and Fleet in one shot in such a devastating manner was meant to demonstrate the FO's incredible resources and their ruthlessness. I think despite having the Republic more or less wiped out or at least reduced to an insignificant state, military wise, Rian Johnson is going to give us a little bit more exposition on the matter, which should help clarify the relationships between the 3 factions.

Also, I think JJ simply wanted to remove the Republic and any boring political narrative that might come with it, with fear of recreating the boring and over done political expositions of the PT that many fans hated so much.

 

The destruction of the New Republic (Abram's reset button) is my biggest bugbear with TFA. No "bugbear" is too small a word, I detest that decision. That's if the NR is actually destroyed mind you. The optimist in me wants to believe that TPTB just wanted to weaken the NR so that the fight would be more equal but the pessimist is terrified to think that Disney does intend to sell a rebooted OT and more frightening, that there are a large amount of fans, and the mass audience, who are quite willing to buy it.

 

I will say that I think something of this nature was a primary motivating factor in the decision, but I'd argue against the idea that it completely is the same as the OT situation at least.

I think that the biggest difference (whether one thinks it's a good idea or not) is that as of right now, both sides are much smaller than in the OT. The Resistance has but a handful of X-Wings and fighters, and (while certainly impressive) I got the idea that most every Stormtrooper was there to hear Hux's speech, and... that's a tiny number compared to what the Empire could muster.

 

actually i think the FO, though it suffered heavy losses, has the upper hand. they still have multiple Star Destroyers (and all the TIE fighters and personnel that go along with that) against the Resistance's handful of X-wings.

but i do agree both factions are smaller than what the OT began with. i'm hoping it means a lot of scrappier combat overall.

 

This.

In my mind the FO has a massive advantage at the end of TFA. Yes, they lost SKB but 1) They seemed to have time to evacuate some of their personnel and 2) Snoke didn't seem that concerned about its loss. Furthermore the Visual dictionary suggests that FO Fleet was at least of a comparable size (the VD had contradictory pages in regards to which was bigger) to the NR Fleet which was the largest in the galaxy even if it wasn't the size of Imperial Fleet at its height. The wiki also suggests that the number of ships lost by the NR Fleet in the Hosnian attack numbered in the hundreds.

Now, we don't know if this was the entirety of the NR or just the majority but regardless this would imply that the NR fleet had hundreds of ships, kind of obvious as a galactic force, but more importantly that the FO Fleet is also composed of hundreds of ships if slightly less than the NR fleet.

I don't remember how many SDs were around the SKB when it exploded but I don't think was that many: (2 or 3)? Even then we don't know if any of those SDs were in any way destroyed (people with DVD help me out here) and the Visual Dictionary suggests that the FO has large fleets hidden deeper in its territory, with even bigger SDs than the Resurgent class.

The Resistance seems to not possess any capital ships and lost half its fighter force in the SKB battle. Therefore we can assume they have a handful of fighters and that's it.

The only way this conflict doesn't become an imitation of the Rebels vs Empire conflict in the OT would be if the NR survives in some form to fight against the FO.

 

Even with the destruction of the Hosnian system, the political state of the New Republic is still entirely different from New Hope era.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 12, 2016, Original Post Date: Apr 12, 2016 ---

To prevent the comparsion with the prequels, and to also prevent TFA from beeing stuffed with too much exposition. They concentrated on the characters in this episode and less on the world/lore building. Though I agree that they should've left in the Korr Sela/Leia arc.

 

I think that it would make sense of what these writers are saying about the things being "REset" but for the record The New Republic wasn't destroyed...only the capitol system of Hosnian was.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 12, 2016, Original Post Date: Apr 12, 2016 ---

Yeh if anything the destruction would INCREASE the political field for the galaxy.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 12, 2016 ---

I think that TFA actually hadtoo little expostion even though I do get that they did it mainly for more money (lol) from the other media outlets from The JTTFA.

 

I get your point, but the "political talk" in the prequels was on a whole other level when compared to the originals. In fact politics was hardly even mentioned(if at all) in Empire or Jedi. The PT political expositions were at times to lengthy and unnecessary.

 

Brilliantly explained.

Aside of it, we have to understand - and hopefully the new canon material to be released can give some explanation about it - how feeble was the strategy of the New Republic of quickly "bury the hatchet" with the remains of the Empire and pretend they would not be a clear and present danger. So from what we read in "Before the Awakening", the New Republic started falling into the same issues the Old Republic fell - as we have learned from the prequels, the new comic "Obi-Wan & Anakin" and TCW - of corruption and lack of action. We see in "Lost Stars" how the enemy was basically put aside, but was allowed to keep growing silently until the FO came out as a reality.

 

Honestly, it seems like (and again, this is speculation on my part) the New Republic divided (unevenly) into two factions, those who were a mixture of combat veterans, and those who were more politically focused. There is a clear schism such that The Resistance and the New Republic apparently exist at the same time. Though Hux gives us some insight into as to why they hate the New Republic in his speech, but ultimately he is just repeating his indoctrination. We'll have to wait for Snoke to articulate the real reason he wants the Republic gone. It's probably not what he has everyone else believing. And unless there is something in the novelization about it, we don't know when the Resistance identified Snoke as an emergent threat, and why the New Republic didn't share their concern.

 

I hope so... if they did really intend the entire destruction of the republic, then SW series will become a series that ignores even a common sense, like Transformer movie series. I would stop concerning about the sequel trilogy if that happens.

P.S. And I do not think 90% of military reduction after a galactic war + a capital destruction are enough to make the NR military so weak that the resistance has to do all Starkiller base destruction or something. The writers should google how the US military reduced its size after WW2.

 

Well they're aided by a successful resistance as their Guerillas as well .

 

No... I meant rest of their military force did nothing after the destruction of their capital planet. Where are they? Why the real republic military force didn't show up when a private army struggled to fight? Lots of people assume that their military force is almost destroyed with their capital, and if that is the case it is so stupid.

 

Well we didn't see it because of probably a lot of bearucracy and red tape and the destruction happened over halfway into the movie.

 

It made sense to me. It isn't Star Wars without the war, and an everything is hunky dory would be dull, or even the hint of political turmoil on the rise, but not achieved, would bring us back to the situation in the prequels, where it really didn't get going fun wise until the Clone Wars begun.

 

And the ground was fertile for a war between the New Republic and the First Order, the extra material paints a picture of a cold war between the two factions. Naturally, there must be destruction and loss for the story to occur otherwise there would be no threat. What I object to is the quick destruction of the NR so that Abrams can reset the galaxy to the OT setting and the eagerness at which some embrace such a direction.

 

I agree with the article. One of my major complaints about TFA is how much of the story they simply threw out so they can retell it.

I also feel like there is an added problem with plausibility here. ROTS brilliantly depicts how liberty dies "with thunderous applause." The reason the Empire was able to take over is because the public supported it. I believe this sad truth is consistent with much of real history. But by the end of ROTJ, it is obvious that the Empire no longer has the support of the public, so how is it able to just pop right back into power so easily that it doesn't need any explanation other than a quick mention in the opening crawl?

I understand that it's a personal preference whether you are willing to believe that, and I understand that some people do accept it, but I can't.