The Fate of Ben Solo

I'm not sure how we can explain this then: http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/2...nd-yoda-are-star-wars-force-awakens?xid=IFT-T
or this: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Episode_VII_The_Force_Awakens. Not to mention the evidence of my own ears--that is far more fallible though, especially in combination with my memory, so April, come quickly! When I get some free time I'll have to check out Smirke on the podcast too.

 

I wonder if at some point, probably Ep. 9, he will turn and be 'redeemed' the way Anakin. I'm not sure if I like this, but it seems that all throughout the saga there are parallels to other films.

 

I wanted to revisit this with the latest episode of the Star Wars Oxygen podcast: http://www.rebelforceradio.com/shows/2016/3/16

At 56:40 one of the hosts (David W. Collins) draws the comparison between the post-murder tragic music in "Torn Apart" as not just a piece of "Starkiller" but also a callback to "Across the Stars"--Anakin and Padme's tragedy is being revisited in their grandson.

 

Like Vader if Kylo does snap out of it and except who he is then I think the only way it doesn't feel cheap is if Ben does some crazy last minute Kamikaze move that allows Rey and whoever else to survive. Maybe he does something that altogether cripples the FO and takes his life in the process. Its very much like Vader but maybe that is part of reason why they have shown him as such a Vader acolyte. His life may end up strongly mirroring that of his Grandfather's even if he didn't intentionally mean for it to in that way. He is such a crazy and fiery person I cant see him just deciding to turn and everything being all peachy keen and happy at the end of IX. He does mention he feels the pull to the light and the novel suggests that after killing Han he actually feels weaker. I just don't see how doing anything but sacrificing himself (if he even does turn) wouldn't feel cheap. Just how I see it though.

 

Thanks for sharing this, I'll definitely listen to it when I can find a bit more time...

The callback to "Across the Stars" has been discussed in another earlier podcast (see below for link) a couple of months ago where they said that both Rey and Kylo's themes contain notes from it.

Rebel Force Radio- Star Wars Oxygen Dissects John Williams’ Score for The Force Awakens

The episode, Volume 26, considers “Rey’s Theme” and Kylo Ren’s motif, as well as “Snoke” and “The March of the Resistance.” In particular, at about the 30-minute mark Collins compares “Rey’s Theme” with Ren’s theme and “Across the Stars” in ways that make a very interesting and powerful musical connection.

Here is the link: traffic.libsyn.com/rebelforceradio/RFR_SWOxygen026.mp3

"Across the Stars" is essentially a romantic theme, not a tragic one. (That their love ended in tragedy is a fact, but the music piece itself is meant to be romantic)
So this callback to Anakin and Padme's love theme could possibly be alluding to is not tragedy, but romance for Kylo Ren/Ben Solo and Rey...
We'll see.

 

I have to agree with you here. This honestly is the only way Kylo would turn back to Ben. Probably saving his mother or something.

 

Yep, I've devoured all the Star Wars Oxygen podcasts! I think in the context of "Torn Apart" there is only tragedy in the reference to "Across the Stars," while its callbacks in context of the themes of Rey (and Kylo ) seem to hint at a romance. (That ends in tragedy... but I'm ignoring that. Lalala, I can't hear you! )

TBH, I find myself not caring all that much whether there's a Rey-Kylo romance, because more and more, all I want is for Kylo to be redeemed, and the rest of the characters can do whatever they like. Within reason.

 

Haha, exactly my sentiments! I don't care what else happens. I want Ben Solo to be redeemed (and remain alive at the end) and Leia to be alive to witness it. That's all. The rest (romance/no romance for him) can be whatever.

 

Oh yes, add in the Leia factor and I am 100% on board! I'm not sure Ben will stay alive, but I am SO hoping...

 

I would like to see Star Wars have (redeemed) Ben live with the things he's done and emerge with a quiet victory...but I really don't know if it's come that far. Much of the past (in the feature films) has been black and white, quick and easy... Will the franchise have time to spare from epic battles and galactic crises to breathe a little and take time to see atonement worked out in one individual person without the drama of sacrificial death?

I don't know. I have maybe a spark of optimism...

 

To me the turnaround has already been set up and has begun. Keep the spark!
Some of the people who object to Kylo Ren's fate being redemption usually complain that that would be repetitive with Vader. However that's not really true. Anakin/Vader's fall was from light to dark and then at the very last back to the light and death. It is not a coincidence that Ben Solo is set up to mirror Vader in many aspects, and to me it is not so hard to see that the possible fate set up for him is to oppositely mirror that of his grandfather - from light to dark and then back to the light. However, I believe that it is important that he survives and there are good reasons to think that is not so impossible nor improbable.
While Anakin was manipulated, misguided and duped when making his choice to join the Dark Side he made that choice as a mature individual, so far we know that Ben's situation is far more complex than that. He was manipulated from a very young age, right in front of the noses of his parents (a similar parallel was with Anakin and the blind jedi council). And we were told/shown multiple times already that his turn to the dark is not complete.
I have a pet theory about how in the next episodes of SW Rebels and in Rogue One we are going to be showed a very brutal and relentless Vader in order to remind people that even he at the end was still good.

Yes this!

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By the way talking about Ben Solo(Kylo Ren)'s redemption, the rumor back in the distant May 2014 has proven so far to be fact. http://makingstarwars.net/2014/05/adam-driver-son-han-leia/

"Sounds like Adam Driver is NOT going to play a villain…sort of.
He will be playing the son of Han and Leia, and it seems he will be seduced to the Dark Side, and a main plot point for the movie will be their attempt to rescue him. "
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I'm especially heartened at the word "rescue" him.

 

Would that be enough, though? (It would be enough for me, but then I'm willing to take any little crumb that might drop from the Ben-is-redeemed table. ) Would a general audience accept only a hint at restitution, and would the writers be willing to risk that they would? Tricky stuff. Obviously I'd love to see TPTB forge into this unknown territory.

 

And that attempt is what will be crucial, as it will indeed manage to bring him back, even though it appears now that he failed. We have discussed why...

Precisely! All we got in the OT was that Luke felt that his father had good in him. We had zero other thing to sympathise or root for Vader at all. Even Yoda and Obi-Wan said that he was gone, but Luke did what he felt was right!

Kylo has already much more laid out to make us root for him compared to Vader.

 

Not to worry! Han will rescue him...eventually. With some help from a number of the good guys, no doubt! But Ben will turn around. (There's my spark of optimism. )

But Vader's turnaround is just the simplicity I'm talking about from Star Wars's past. I accepted it, and I still accept it, but I do understand how people think he got off too easily. 2019 will be different from 1983 in terms of what people will give the nod to, even in a space opera. But you are right--already the ST is going deeper than the OT--certainly with the subtext. It gives me comfort to think that the directors and writers of this new trilogy are pretty much in touch with current sensibilities, though, and if Ben's living redemption is their end, they can certainly find a way to make it work. (Do it, people! )

 

To play with our feelings and make us care and root for him and then really turn him into a monster!? I don't believe it!
(But if they do go that sacrilegious path, then, sign me up for and we shall form a wrathful pack that will protest that monstrosity! I agree, that would be far more worse than the bad directing/acting and the unreal CGI worlds of the PT...)

But I have faith, and I think is is not likely. I have over analyzed this film already in my head and I just don't see why would they develop a character who is the child of our favourite characters and make him end evil and irredeemable.

#TeamBenSolo