SPECULATION The Kylo = Sequel Trilogy Theory

The metacommentary angle regarding interpretation of Sequel Trilogy is definitely interesting and worth exploring. Here's another video that explores this topic:

It's a nice watch and it also adds tot this analysis another character, who fits this theory as well as Kylo:

Rey.

 

1. i believe it is entirely intentional.
2. i think a lot of fans don't understand that Ren's apothegm of "let the past die" is itself set up to be subverted in the end. which it is, by failed Luke the Legend who rises to the occasion to become triumphant Luke the Legend. and in Luke reminding Leia to not let her hope die. and in the persistence of both the newly re-branded Rebellion and the Jedi.

the ST is about balance. it's not saying the past is bad or that the future must raze it in order to be good.
it's also not saying that the past is sacred and must be honored at all costs on all levels.
it's saying everything in perspective and proportion.

Ben is the canary in the coal mine (and so is Rey). the two of them are navigating tricky waters to understand the balance, their place, and objective perspective (which neither of them posses at this point, though Rey made much more progress toward it in TLJ than Ben did).

wouldn't it? : D

 

Kylo is already made looser. That is unfortunate.

First chance--


They would need entire episode IX to fix Kylo to redeem him, and at the end it will be waste of tim, bad and unfulfilling.

Only solution is Rey Skywalker.

 

For me, it wasn't about subversion. Ever since "THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK", George Lucas managed to subvert the franchise.

I just could not deal with the poor writing that Rian Johnson used for his own brand of subversion. His subversion was about good storytelling. It was all about shock value. That's it.

A happy ending for Kylo Ren? What for? More shock value? Is that what storytelling has devolved into . . . shock value?

 

oh, thanks for clarifying! no, i don't think they hoped it would be a low point for some fans, but to be honest i don't feel like they're surprised.
TLJ is a very uncomfortable film and a lot of people don't like the story it told (or the way it was "executed").
but they're not making this ST for people who think it should be about Luke bringing down star destroyers with his Force powers.
and thank God for that (at least for me: that's not what i want from this saga).

i can think of a lot of ways i would have approached TLJ differently to cut down on some character clutter and tidy up a few indulgences, but it is what it is: and Ren Ben and Rey are at the heart of it. characters like Luke, Snoke, people's dead parents: they're catalysts, they're not the ultimate focal points and never were meant to be.

if you don't like Ren Ben or Rey, the ST is bound to be a frustrating experience.
i totally get it. i love Batman. i don't love Ben Affleck and i don't love Frank Miller or his aesthetic: hence, the whole WB DCU is a completely wash for me.
but guess what i don't waste my time doing. XD

 

The Sequel Trilogy is a frustrating experience for me.

 

The heart of TLJ are Kylo and Luke and that's the problem. Everything else feels bland or crude. You can clearly see that Rian loves these two characters but he also had to deal with the other characters... xD

For many people the PT was a frustrating experience. Some things will never change.

 

I think it is very possible that the key piece in these stories is Kylo Ren. It’s been said often that JJ wishes to tie up the three trilogies in episode 9 and I feel he might do it through Kylo/Ben, making him the chosen one: the one meant to bring balance to the galaxy.

And also harmonise the old and the new elements in Star Wars, hopefully with a compelling story, which reaches the fans without patronising them.

 

you get a Saw Gerrera from me. XD

TLJ is as much about Ren Ben and Luke as TFA is about Ren Ben and Han Solo.
which is to say: it is to a degree, but the heart of both movies is still Rey and Ren Ben.

Ren Ben's encounters with the OT heroes cause him reflection and doubt and conflict.
his encounters with Rey fundamentally change him; his goals, his focus, and his motivation.

honest to God, i think one of the problems some people have with TLJ is that the climax happens in the throne room and the rest is all denouement afterglow.
this is unlike more common Aristotelian climax structure, though just as a valid.

Spoiler

it's the difference between a male and female orgasm, frankly.

yeah, i went there. : o p

 

If you ever give me a Disagree or anything like that, then I'll give you a sad Ren face! xD

Rian said the protagonist of TLJ is Luke.

I really thought the movie would end after the Throne Room fight, but it still went on. Funnily I think everything after the Throne Room is great, but it's still badly paced... Weird!

 

being a protagonist (one of several) is not the same thing as being the heart.

Luke is the heart of the OT.
i can't answer who's the heart of the PT because it's just a mess. it probably should have been Obi Wan, though it tries to be Anakin.
in the ST Han is dead. Luke is dead. the heart is clearly Rey and Ben.
the story will resolve around the conflict/need for balance between these two.

and i don't think post-throne room it's badly paced. it's unusually paced for a traditional adventure-style story (see spoiler above).
which is not to say it couldn't use tightening if you wanted to do it (and already have ; D).
but that's a different issue from whether the story beats makes sense and have an intentional/deliberate rhythm.

 

I did not expect that.

 

Will you just admit that you hate Kylo Ren already?

--- Double Post Merged, May 16, 2018, Original Post Date: May 16, 2018 ---

I thought the same thing about the Throne Room scene, tbh. What a way to end the movie that would have been.

 

I was going to ask what you meant by fumbled, but judging by the second highlighted statement you literally meant he could have done something good; and redeemed himself.

I cannot believe anybody wants to see him redeemed. For starters, it's a played out concept in this franchise. I want a bad guy who is Maclunkey BAD; and Kylo is just that. He killed his father, who is one of the most popular characters in the franchise for Christ's sake. Redeemed?! Why would you even want to see that?

 

A lot of people want to see it because they don't want Han's and Luke's deaths to be for nothing. Furtermore Star Wars is pretty much about redemption.

 

Han's and Luke's deaths have meaning if Kylo is redeemed? that makes zero sense.

--- Double Post Merged, May 17, 2018, Original Post Date: May 17, 2018 ---

A lot? I think you overestimate your stance on the matter.