The Last Jedi Reactions Thread

So Holdo was wrong to kill herself?

 

• Snoke is dead
• Kylo finally made his choice and is in charge now

Those are the "beside". And as said, I may have loved more the journey to reach that. About Kylo is not that I don't like the point where he is now
I don't find compelling the journey, as it was portrayed. See post above.

• Luke is gone and the Resistance now needs to rely on themselves

As they were in 7. But sure, Luke died. Speaking of creativity, how different is that from ep. iv?

• Resistance is almost eradicated

Not that in 7 there were hundred of Reistance fighters. We are told that the x-wings coming back from the starkiller were the last left.
It's that, ignoring this, TLJ opens with a Resistance that is far larger than it was in 7 becasue he need to to destroy it along the movie.

• Rey now is considered a Jedi and has the initial training and means and will to expand upon it and build a new order

Ok... but, since she is the jedi-to-be heroine of the movie, do you really think there was any chance to avoid at least this?

• Finn found courage and joined the Resistance for good
• Poe is in the leadership role now and a lot wise

See my post above But I may add, I think what Finn went trough ep. 7 was enough to make him make that choice at the beginning of 8.
But then you have to give him something to improve the character arc. I think Jhonson simply didn't know what to do with him and Poe. Those story lines are just the first, obvious things one may think about.

 

Rogue One was better, more cohesive to the SW Universe for glaringly obvious reasons. I think RJ was constrained by the nostalgia overload JJ Abrams created for TFA and now we'll have to wait and see if Force Ghost Luke appears in IX.

Leia the Forcetranaut was almost a travesty to the memory of Carrie Fisher and really bothered me, a lot, probably the low point of the entire film, and I agree that there was something not quite right with Yoda, but a welcome addition he was and pivotal (along with R2) in reminding Luke who he was - that death was totally unexpected, but considering the amount of energy expended in 'fighting' Kylo it's not entirely unexpected. The Finn & Rose story arc almost felt like they had to give them something to do to fulfil contractual promises - be interesting to see what happens to them next. Phasma again did nothing to justify her presence other than give Finn something to do.

That said, the positives totally outweigh any negatives. Poe was superb and his taunting of Hux at the start was inspired. Hux again was played expertly as a conniving, snivelling a$$licking little sh*t. Daisy Ridley's performance was so much improved on the TFA - we'll be watching her career with great interest (© Supreme Chancellor Sheev Palapatine)

The duel with Rey, Kylo and the Preatorians was great chroeography and felt like the duel at the end of TPM. The opening space battle was great and it showed Poe's weaknesses and strengths as a tactician. And it did feel like the Resistance was truly at the threshold of total defeat as they approached Crait.

I will see it again - you need to, to fully realise everything is going on. And did I see the texts from the Force Tree in the Falcon? It will be interesting to see what deleted scenes will be included on the Blu-Ray too....

It appears JJ has a more or less a blank slate for IX - let's hope he gives the trilogy a worthy ending (minus the introduction of a planet full of primitive lifeforms who save the day as in TPM, ROJ)

 

Nope she knew there was no other way to stop the first order chase.

 

Maul was also left in two pieces.

 

Yes and it was retarded to bring him to life again.

 

So much to take in and like most of us I need a second viewing to really understand about how I feel in terms of how it fits in and impact on the saga and Star Wars universe.

However what I can say straight away is that it's a very well made film for it's genre. If you are a casual viewer not invested in the saga I'm sure you'd judge it as a great and entertaining film. The pace is perfect (in line with Empire IMO), a roller-coaster ride from the off building to a great climax with an emotional pay off, the character development, motivations, arcs and acting are very strong and it's visually stunning (floating Leia aside). When it came to the prequels the above is where they mostly failed aside from some of the visuals. So main tick in the box for me in that it's a well made and highly entertaining film. The humour element can be subjective, I laughed a lot but didn't cringe.

So how do I feel about the choices made in terms of the saga? Do they damage the overall saga and mythos of Star Wars for me? The main divisive thing story wise seems to be Snoke and that is the main thing I've been struggling with. It's partly my fault as I've invested lots of time imagining his origin and what he could be only for it to turn out an apparent mcguffin. At first I was very disappointed by this however after sleeping on it I'm more positive. When I evaluate Pros and Cons and the Pros win.

Cons -
1. It weakens the First Order for me. The mastermind is gone. Is Kylo a credible leader?. This could, however, be addressed in Episode 9.
2. I'm not sure I like this growing trend of teasing a mystery only to cheaply throw it away. I'm seeing this increasingly nowadays in film and TV, LOST comes to mind.

Pros -
1. It really serves Kylo Ren's arc very well and rings true to the past i.e. Sidious killing his master, Vader telling Luke that he'd do the same. It's very fitting.
2. Narratively this act is 'the spark' that fully turns him to the dark side, he has well and truly broken bad. A tragic figure now fully consumed with darkness. Anakin's fall looks limp in comparison.
3. It's adds an edge to Star Wars where no one is safe, I like that. Puts me in mind of Game of Thrones who kill off seemly important characters but in doing so drive the story and character of the main protagonists.
4. Supreme leader Kylo & Knights of Ren and an inevitable power struggle with Hux could make for an interesting direction.
5. Finally, at the end of the day I've had to remind myself it's the Skywalker saga not a Snoke one


Overall it's a very well made film, highly re-watchable (essential for Star Wars) with core characters I'm well and truly invested in. It's not the story I wanted but it's a good story none the less. While I've come to terms with Snoke I have minor gripes that require further viewings to see if they stick or not ( floating Leia, Canto sequence and broomstick boy ending).

Roll on Episode 9. * But JJ can you at least put in a few lines alluding to Snoke's origins / how the First Order came to be, I don't really want to read books.

 

Btw: Did somebody say 'I have a bad feeling about this' in the movie?

 

Just got in my second viewing. I love it.

Hey, sacred forums, watch your language.

 

Space Balls 2. Absolute dog sh*t.

(I might change my mind later this evening)

 

I can't speak for the English version of this film but in the German one it was said by Luke.

 

When and where?

 

If I remember correctly it was during the talk between Luke and Rey at the Jedi sign on the ground.

 

I know. Maybe I've chose a bad word. I just wanted to say I'm pretty open to acknowledge good points
I may have missed, I was honestly interesting in your "more to come".

That is where we don't agree.
Rey's arc in 7, if she is a random as she is, was pretty done.

She admits to Maz her parents are gone, but refuses to move further.
And the end of 7 she does.
Then why to focus almost all her arc in 8, on that?
Change subject and push forward her.
Much more that the little we see in this one.

I'm sorry, but it looks to me, her arc and the potential of her arc - were sacrified to help Kylo's arc.
And that's a shame.
Truth is , Kylo's arc is the most unespected. But because to some degree it's inlogical.

I cannot say what the point is with him. And with Snoke. Not because I need to know everything about Snoke.
But what was the deal at least with Kylo?

Was Ben/Kylo deceived? Yes or not?
How, when and why things changes?
Or was Kylo plotting all the time?
The journey to me, it's not compelling at all.

As said, I haven't seen an improvement in Finn. If I think about 7, I guess that was enough for him
to make that decision he makes at the end of 8, at the beginning and to and go further in this one.

Poe was made a jerk at the beginningn of 8 if compared to 7 and then given of a silly plot line.

Wanto to make him a leader?
Put him in charge - for instance - and show us how he deals with the dilemmas of choosing as a leader has to do
who has to die and who has to survive.
Make him fail, and rise from that. Don't turn the character into a 20es something guy.
In all honesty, that was a clichè. Not something originally.
And the relationship with Leia and Holdo too much that of a surrogate son.
Meaning women in charge cannot help but being mothers.
Leia was a leader regardless that clichè too.
That was interesting. 40 years ago.

Agree.

Agree, but I just find the story lines unsatisfying.
And let me add: Kylo tries to do with Rey what Snoke did with him: to seduce, deceive her by playing with her abandonment issues.
And that's why in this movie, there's too much focus on that issue that if she's a no one was already almost done.
That's why Rey's arc is sacrified to that of Kylo. IMO.

 

So I saw it for a second time and it's definitely 9,5/10 from me. I can't believe it, but second watching was even better than the first, and I still want more. Even things I didn't like, like Canto Bight was all right this time.
I will list a few things, small and big, I appreciated more, knowing what will happen.

Rey, by the Falkon laughing as she feels rain. It's a great reminder that it's the same girl mesmerized by all that green on Takodana.
When Poe realizes what was Luke's plan, he paraphrases Holdo's words about Rebellion being the spark. After fighting with her almost entire movie, in the end, he is inspired by her. Nice, subtle moment.
When Leia walks on a Falcon, first thing she does is hugging Chewie, so I guess it might be a nod to all of us who complained about it in TFA

Bigger ones. Luke's death was beautiful. Him looking at the twin suns, finally at peace, disappearing. "No one is ever truly gone". Just beautiful.

And then Ben. He walks to the empty base and he sees his father's gold dice. He takes it and reaches out to Rey, but she shows no hate, no anger, not even regret, just peace, like a true Jedi should, and closes door on him. And there he is, looking at dice as it disappear in his hand, and he is left on his knees with nothing, absolutely nothing, because of his choices. Oh man, I don't know if it's intentional, but he looks exactly like Anakin kneeling before Palpatine, when he finally embraces Dark Side and Vader is born. Now, Kylo Ren is truly born, fully independent, fully his own person, not some kind of pretender.

It's seriously masterpiece for me.

 

My personal theory: Kylo Ren stays with the First Order, but ends up destroying it. The general audience will think he's gone darker as Renperor - but later ends up fulfilling Anakin's destiny, who was supposed to be the 'chosen one' to bring balance to the galaxy. This will be accomplished by Kylo (with Rey's help?) at the end of Ep IX. This was foreshadowed when Kylo held DV's helmet (from TFA): "I will finish what you started." Kylo's journey is like a reverse Anakin - his love for Rey will eventually turn him to the light, unlike Anakin's love for Padme.