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SPOILER The Mystery of Snoke Has Been Revealed!!

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by Himmel, Dec 2, 2019.

  1. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    Well, it might not have been a back up plan in the event of his defeat but rather something he turned into a back up plan after his defeat...
    That is to say, we know he was exploring the Unknown Regions for this dark side source. And we can probably guess he was always seeking to discover how he could live forever. Perhaps his defeat forced his hand, he already knew he could cheat death to a degree but then went to this "source of the Dark Side" planet - Exogol - because it could sustain him (dark energy or whatever). All of this is implied to a degree in the Aftermath novels etc.

    As for Rey - again, there wasn't really a plan for her until she was born. Palpatine would've known his child was in hiding and then in his exile, learned about the Rey. So he takes the opportunity to set up another potential apprentice by having his child and his wife (Rey's parents) killed, leaving Rey on Jakku (to seed the Dark Side within her).

    You're right - Palpatine just floods the environment with the Dark Side, takes his rewards from whatever occurs and then passes it off as a plan. But that could be essentially what happened again here.

    When in power, he sought out the source of the Dark Side; he was defeated; he cheated death through Plagueis' teachings; fled to Exogol and then started again with planning to take over the galaxy. He created Snoke. He sought to turn Kylo. He set in motion Rey's turn to the Dark Side. He'd then let events play out and take on the victor as his apprentice/siphon their power to achieve full resurrection/immortality.
     
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  2. Darth Wardawg

    Darth Wardawg Force Sensitive

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    I feel that way about all of these YouTuber guys/gals... all of them. Take it with a grain of salt. Some have legit sources, some are full of crap. But either way, it's all just people reporting on rumors they've been told by "insiders" to stuff they found on reddit or what not. It's fun to speculate and think about it, and some will get some stuff right, but don't attack the messenger. Instead just use more salt. :D
     
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  3. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel General

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    If I weren't aware of the way that the Lucasfilm Story Group operates when it comes to the potential of spoilers getting leaked out unintentionally, I might put more credence in this, , but the issue of whether or not you can clone a Force User has already been addressed - and dismissed - by Lucasfilm Story Group member Pablo Hidalgo, casting serious doubt, for me at least, on the veracity of this new spoiler video by Jason (who is generally pretty accurate and trustworthy and has even received the endorsement of Full of Sith co-host and Star Wars.Com contributor Bryan Young).

    We'll see what ends up happening on the 20th, though.
     
  4. Darth Wardawg

    Darth Wardawg Force Sensitive

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    Of course, would he confirm it though? I'm not saying it's true. At this point I guess anything is possible, but I really doubt they'd come out and say it is true. But, like you say, we will certainly find out in about 2 weeks or so.
     
  5. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel General

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    If a question is asked a member of the Lucasfilm Story Group and answering said question could potentially reveal spoilery information, the Lucasfilm Story Group member in question will defer and refuse to answer the question, either by deflecting or by not responding.

    Pablo HIdalgo was asked a question on Twitter about Jedi and blood transfusions, with the person asking the question wanting to know whether or not it was possible to transfer Force abilities through the transference of Midichlorians via blood, to which Pablo responded that it is not possible to manufacture Force sensitivity through scientific means, which not only rules out the Twitter user's question, but also the concept of creating Force-sensitive clones.

    What this means for Jason's new video is that the information he's sharing runs directly contrary to Pablo's answer and also runs contrary to the practice of Lucasfilm Story Group members not answering a question if doing so would be in any way spoilery either directly or indirectly (which is something I have personally witnessed by being present at convention panels where audience members asked a member of the Lucasfilm Story Group a question having to do with future SW content and the potential of future SW story trajectory).
     
  6. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    Again, that is absolutely not how cloning works. I really don't think we can say for certain that this rule anything out.

    Anyway, I've heard of Jason Ward before. What's everyone's take on this? Seem pretty legit? Does he have a pretty good track record?
     
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  7. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    If Ward is sharing it, that means it comes from a legit source though it's entirely possible there are misdirections being laid this close to release.
     
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  8. Darth Wardawg

    Darth Wardawg Force Sensitive

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    I don't know when this answer was given, but I'm 85% sure that, if JJ wants to make a film that contradicts Pablo Hidalgo, the film gets made and it gets made the way JJ wants it to get made. If it came down to a pissing match between Pablo and JJ Abrams, me thinks JJ wins.

    Who's to say Pablo was in the loop anyway? Chris Terrio and JJ Abrams could simply have done what they wanted to do. They could be recannonizing this aspect of the old EU, something they've been doing.

    We will find out in a few weeks.
     
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  9. LagothZanta

    LagothZanta Clone Trooper

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    But it doesn't really boil down to that since none of the things you listed (love, dates, engagement) are requirements for getting a woman pregnant. Rather than looking at the "nice, normal guy" approach to this stuff, it would be more fitting to compare Palpatine to some old Roman emperors, British monarchs, etc. Many of them weren't exactly known for being perfect gentlemen.
     
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  10. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    True, good point.

    Though I think part of the aversion to that idea probably comes from not wanting to picture "Little Sheev" getting action.
     
  11. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi Commander

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    One thing that is often confused and part of the reason Hidalgo locked down his account is people place way too much weigh in what he says. Someone asked him if Palpatine had kids and Pablo said no. Pablo is right. Nothing in canon material says Palpatine had kids. That doesn't mean a later story could say he had kids. We don't really have a canon answer to the cloning question. Pablo doesn't influence lore changes, just knows what has happened in previous stories that would have to be accounted for in future stories.

    JJ isn't contradicting canon. He's adding to it.
     
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  12. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel General

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    The Lucasfilm Story Group exists to serve as the gatekeepers of Star Wars and keep the Canonical details consistent, so Pablo and other members of the Story Group have significant input and influence on almost every aspect of the franchise.

    And Pablo's comments were posted on Twitter like 6 months ago.
     
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  13. Darth Wardawg

    Darth Wardawg Force Sensitive

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    As @DailyPlunge said, as of six months ago was there ANYTHING in cannon, or Disney nu-cannon, whatever you wanna call it, that said you could do that? Any comics/books/cartoons? No. So Pablo wasn't lying. That doesn't mean they can't change it with a film release six months later.

    Anyway, none of this really matters. We will start finding out the reality in a few days as the film is shown and the leaks become solidified.

    PS the more I think about this, the more I agree with Chuck Wendig, not exactly my favorite author ever, but I'll give credit where credit is due. He had a blog post about 9 months ago or so in which he argued that LFL ought to do a Star Wars Cinematic Universe that removed from the comics/books/video games, etc... In other words all of that would exist separately, sort of how the MCU exists separately from the comics. This isn't really the place to discuss it, but it sounds like a good idea to me.
     
    #33 Darth Wardawg, Dec 4, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019
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  14. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    Nobody has mentioned Operation Cinder and The Contingency from Star Wars Battlefront II. This story is canon and the main character, Iden Versio's daughter is a character in the Resistance Reborn novel. If they didn't recognize this story as canon, they wouldn't have included Zay Versio and Shriv in the new book.

    I believe Palpatine's plan, if betrayed or defeated, would be to retreat to the Unknown regions and wait until he rebuilt his military and found suitable people to use as pawns to help execute his rebirth. Once Ben Solo was born, he sensed it and used the cloned bodies of Snoke to begin seducing Ben. Palpatine inhabiting Snoke is similar to Luke's doppleganger force power, except Palpatine is inside the Snoke clone.

    Operation: Cinder was carried out by the Galactic Empire as a means of devastating several Imperial planets in 4 ABY, only a few weeks following the Battle of Endor. The operation was part of the Contingency, a plan devised by Emperor Palpatine to ensure that the Empire and its enemies did not outlive him should he ever perish. The plan was put into action following the Emperor's death during the Battle of Endor.

    Imperial forces placed satellites in orbit of planets to form a climate disruption array. Electrical storms and other extreme weather events would begin to ravage targeted planets.

    Operation: Cinder lasted for at least three months after an attack on Naboo, the homeworld of Emperor Sheev Palpatine and a rallying point for many Imperial sympathizers. Other worlds that were targeted included Vardos, Burnin Konn, Candovant, Abednedo, Commenor, and Nacronis. By the end of the war in 5 ABY, the secret Contingency was clandestinely carried out to rebuild the Empire in the Unknown Regions, though the New Republic was triumphant and survived the Galactic Civil War.

     
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  15. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    I'm wondering whether Ward's source re: clones, got the wrong end of the stick.
    What if he saw what looked like a load of different Snoke clones but they were, in fact, just the indigenous species of planet Exogon? Perhaps a species that, due to the nature of the world, are strong with the Dark Side of the Force?

    I'm just confused as to how they could explain the whole Snoke/Clone thing without opening a can of worms re: Force sensitive cloning and having to throw out the entire backstory we have heard about Snoke (had an apprentice, an ancient being, lived through the events of the previous films).

    Palpatine then, upon escaping to this Dark Side world to heal and concoct his plan, chose the strongest of these species to do his dirty work. He taught Snoke the ways of the Sith and sent him to destroy the Republic and bring him the "next chosen one" to capture as his apprentice and/or dark side power to siphon.
     
  16. Perdu

    Perdu Rebel General

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    One thing I do find funny, is how some of us are getting caught up in Palps having a child.

    He is a Sith Lord. He does what he wants.

    He's probably laid more pipe through the galaxy than Han and Lando combined.
     
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  17. Legend66

    Legend66 Rebel Commander

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    Have you been watching the Mandalorian ? ( dont want to spoil in case you haven't) There may be a clue in that show.
     
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  18. Get In Gear

    Get In Gear Force Sensitive

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    I think you may be missing my point. I don't doubt any of that can happen "in universe".
    But I'm talking about films, how they are structured, and how we understand them.
    Sidious having a grandchild may be in keeping with how you perceive his character (if his character really was a continuous thing which exists outside the confines of the stories he is in) but there is nothing connecting it to the established narrative.

    It's just deus ex machina, it's too convenient, Palpatine having a child wasn't even a thing for six movies, and now suddenly the existence of his grandchild is, essentially, the pivotal plot point in the entire sequel trilogy?
    I'm not saying it's not possible, I'm saying it's a bit lame and underwhelming.
     
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  19. Angelman

    Angelman Servant to the Whills & Slave to the Muses
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    Also, genre. Creepy old Palpy making sweet alchemy with a concubine harém (or whatever) is a bit outside of what Star Wars tends to be about. So I would assume any of his offspring were born sometime around/before TPM.
     
  20. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    Palpy is all about power, I don't think he would risk it by having offspring.
     
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