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The "Two Galaxies" Problem

Discussion in 'General Movie Discussion' started by cawatrooper, Mar 7, 2018.

  1. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    To be clear, I'm not saying there are literally two galaxies in Star Wars (I mean, scientifically there are probably more, but that's beside the point) but rather the portrayal of the galaxies we've seen.

    Because honestly, much as I love the sequel trilogy, it's starting to feel like an alternate reality to the GFFA we know and love. And I'm not just saying that because of Legends or ways it echoes the old canon in slightly warped ways. I actually really like that about the new canon. Rebels does that a lot, and I'm a huge fan of that show.

    What I mean is that so much of what we hold familiar in Star Wars isn't showing up in the sequel trilogy. Aliens, planets... everything seems so new and unexplored.

    This idea has cropped up a few times on these forums, so I don't want to rehash what's already been said too much, and I also totally understand that in something as big as a galaxy you won't want it to feel small and constantly familiar. So I totally get the reason for expanding the canon, and I never want them to stop expanding. But I think it doesn't hurt to look inward, too, and I think the slower rate at which they've done so is actually a big root of what people disliked in TLJ.

    For instance, take a look at some of these complaints:

    1. Rey's Backstory

    I don't think Rey needs a legacy heritage, and at this point I think it would be awful to backpedal and try to say that she's a Dooku or something.

    But as of now, she's still a relatively blank slate. For backstory, we know that she was apparently a child of degenerates who sold her on Jakku for drinking money.

    I mean, at the very least we could've thrown just a little more flavor in there. Maybe make Rey's alcoholic parents be originally from Alderaan, or even throw in something for deeper canon fans like Vadros or Jelucan. Or even Rey herself could have vague memories of another world, something familiar for fans to grasp on to.

    Obviously there's a risk inherent here in that any sort of familiarity could also be an accidental springboard for unnecessary speculation. For instance, Rey of Jelucan all of a sudden is a prime candidate for being the son of Thane and Ciena, because an entire planet full of people can be tough to fathom and it's far easier to reduce a planet's identity to a single individual or pair by association. But that's just something fans should be smarter about.

    Point is, we have such a huge and fleshed out galaxy in Star Wars- Rey can still be "Rey Nobody", and still have a place in the galaxy. She doesn't need to be an entirely blank slate.

    2. Snoke's Backstory

    Same reasoning as Rey's, for the most part, but with one huge addition: apparently Snoke is from the Unknown Regions, or at least expanded media tells us that. But at this point, why does that matter, when everything feels unfamiliar to us? It makes everything feel alien, so why should we be concerned with Snoke. This guy arguably looks creepier, anyway...

    [​IMG]


    3. The Deaths of Major Characters


    I see this as sort of a coping mechanism. Star Wars is rapidly changing, and I don't think that's a bad thing. But we have a world now where Star Wars has killed Han Solo and Luke Skywalker. Again, personally I'm still very excited for the sequel trilogy, but it's not hard to see how some fans have lost enthusiasm.

    Now it's one thing to take away characters, but we've set our story in something that wholly feels unfamiliar. Imagine a fan just now entering the sequel trilogy:

    - Does it have Luke and Han?

    Ummm, for a while...


    - Do we get to see Coruscant, Tatooine, or the new Republic? Or even planets I read about like Kashyyyk, Sullust, stuff like that?

    No, not really. You can see a salt planet called Crait, and a planet kinda like Tatooine but it's called Jakku.

    - Ok, ok... Are there lots of rodians, Twi'leks, Jawas, Duros, Wookies- you know, all the Star Wars races we know and love?

    Oh, not really. But you do get to see this guy.
    [​IMG]

    I guess what I'm saying here is, we're making a really rough transition too this new canon, and likely losing a lot of fans along the way. Again, I'm totally playing Devil's Advocate here and I'm sure Star Wars will be fine, but it does make me sad to see so many people lost their love for the series.


    To end this rant on a positive note, I'll say that I'm very impressed with the direction Solo looks like it's headed in.

    Corellia, Mimban, Kessel. Corellian hounds, new stormtrooper variants, new bounty hunters, hopefully old ones as well. It seems like it does a great job of setting itself firmly in the Star Wars universe (perhaps the best out of any new canon film) and asserting itself as something new and unique, but still accessible to all fans. Here's to hoping it's as incredible as I think!
     
    #1 cawatrooper, Mar 7, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
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  2. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    The way I see it: the new trilogy should be ‘new’. I get some people’s criticisms of the ST lacking familiar locations and aliens and such, but that’s never been any kind of appeal to me. Rattling off names of things isn’t what I like about Star Wars.

    I want compelling, unique stories that take place in this galaxy regardless of whether I recognize every noun involved. If preexisting pieces are used as connective tissue, great, but I couldn’t care less about seeing an Ugnaught or hearing someone mention “Naboo”. That does nothing for me. It's a big galaxy. Show me things I haven’t seen.
     
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  3. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    That's a fair point, and I totally get where you're coming from. I love the new stuff, too.

    I just think that with everything is changing, that's starting to put a bad taste in peoples' mouths. Maybe IX could throw in some Rodians, Duros, or Twi'leks in the background (I believe they're supposed to be about as common as humans in the galaxy, and the stats we see on screen don't even come close to approaching that) amongst the new stuff that we can look forward to being unveiled.

    After all, despite my complaints against the prequel trilogy, it's amazing that eventually they managed to make a world like this

    [​IMG]

    Feel like it belonged in the same universe as this
    [​IMG]

    I think stuff like The Clone Wars and Rebels helped, but the prequels also weren't shy to indulge in fan service every now and then. Sometimes maybe to a fault. Maybe, with time, the Sequel trilogy will slowly feel more like it's slotted correctly in its place.
     
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  4. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    Well now that time travel is canon there is no way around multiple universes. There's a universe now where Ezra helped Kanan, didn't save Ahsoka, went to his parents....

    We are gonna Bill and Ted this up!
     
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  5. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    Haha, I almost made a multiverse joke in the original post, but I figured I wouldn't try to steal your thunder :p
     
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  6. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    Thank you.
    It's therapeutic to keep it in the realm of humor and fun

    Could do without the re-imagining of the Ghost
    giphy.gif
     
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  7. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    No joke though, the Ghost always did seem bigger on the inside.
     
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  8. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    There is almost no ship in history that works logically lol.

    And how "working class" people can afford epic apartments in LA/New York in sitcoms
     
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  9. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    Sure. If it makes logical sense for them to be there, then yeah, why not? It would do more good than harm. My concern is familiarity for familiarity’s sake alone. Y’know? It’s a new story. It’s connected to what we know, but it needs to have an identity of its own. It’s a hard line to walk though, to strike that balance. That’s just for me, for my preference, I’d rather have everything new than more of the same. But I recognize that would be super alienating to a lot of fans. I don’t personally need more of an effort made there, but I’m sure a lot of people would really appreciate it and I can respect that.
     
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  10. Boss Vos

    Boss Vos Rebel Official

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    Yes, it's ironic how the sequel trilogy copies so many visuals and story elements from the OT yet feels totally disconnected from it.

    Seriously. If Dave Filoni came onboard and explained that someone (be it Snoke, Kylo or someone of equal character) reached the world between words sometime after ROTJ and altered the timeline... and basically that's how we ended up with TFA and TLJ.... that would be amazing.
     
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  11. Wonton

    Wonton Rebelscum

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    So much this.
     
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  12. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    If this trilogy is supposed to be a part of the Skywalker Family Saga, then either Rey should be a Skywalker by blood . . . or this trilogy SHOULD NOT be a part of that family's saga.

    To have the two main protagonists not be a Skywalker by blood in a trilogy that is supposed to be a part of the Skywalker family saga is simply ridiculous to me.
     
  13. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    I don't disagree, but I think it remains to be seen how the Skywalker thing is going to resolve.
     
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  14. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    It's obvious that Kathleen Kennedy wants to end the Skywalker family line with Kylo Whine. She wants to end George Lucas' story and have her own vision of Star Wars. She could have done this without bringing up or attempting to continue the family saga in the first place. I don't know whether or not you like what Lucasfilm is currently doing with the Star Wars saga, but I don't - at least with the Sequel Trliogy. Mentally, I'm through with this trilogy. And my opinion of Kennedy has reached the abyss. I thought she would continue Lucas' work with good stories. Aside from "Rogue One", she has not done so in my eyes.
     
  15. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    I guess we'll just have to see. I enjoy Star Wars for what it is, but I think from the fact that I made this thread it's pretty clear that I have my own issues with it. Still, I'm remaining optimistic that IX will do what is best for the story.
     
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  16. Sparafucile

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    Having familiar aliens in the background would have been logical and easy, I'm surprised they didn't do it. As @cawatrooper says, many races are supposed to be as common as humans. I think it's maybe a budget makeup issue, more off screen than anything. Why spend on CGI or elaborate makeup and masks when they could just have a human do it?

    I get the fear of having too much fan service, I don't want that either, but at the same time, familiarity and fan service are not the same thing. If there's supposed to have as many Rodians and Twi'Leks and such in the GFFA as humans, then it should show on screen. It's racist to those races lol. Or they should at least have an explanation as to why other races aren't present (cultural, racial, possibly even physical as in some can't take the cold, require more humidity, thus have separate hangers ect...). I don't want this to come off as bashing RJ or JJ, but I think sometimes we underestimate our own fandom and the knowledge about this SW universe that we possess. I'm sure RJ and JJ are huge SW fans, I thought I was pretty huge too, but talking to many people on here, I have to admit I definitely have blind spots. It's quite possible that RJ had no idea some aliens were as common as humans and was going on what he'd seen in the OT.

    I'm sure there are tests out there that measure your SW fandomness... but I think some people on here would even surpass 100% on those tests as their knowledge far exceeds what the average huge SW fan has.

    As for losing some fans, I think it's inevitable. Every movie will displease some moving forward, sadly. I think what will be interesting is how many come back once disappointed. That's going to be the true testament to how great or how pedestrian the series has become. Speaking for myself, I want to come to love all this new SW stuff again, I just want something to love to come back to. TLJ took a lot of chances and expanded on a lot of elements of lore and canon. I think over time, many fans will be able to come to terms with that, even if they struggle with it now. I just hope that they don't plan to do movies like TLJ every trilogy or two. We can afford dissent the way TFA had dissent and move on pretty well, but having schisms like what TLJ did every 5 years or so I think would really hurt the fan base moving forward.
     
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  17. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    To be totally fair, Lucas never portrayed Duros or Rodians as being nearly as populous in the galaxy as they should have been, either. And really, I think the new canon actually does a far better job of showing that the Rebel Alliance wasn't just a ton of humans. Characters like Hera, Shriv, and the gigoran from Rogue One are some standouts.



    But yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head with the difference between fan service and familiarity.

    For example, fan service would be if Amazon's Lord of the Rings series featured a town that included hobbits, elves, and dwarves all living together.

    Familiarity would be seeing those different groups where they're supposed to be.



    The thing is, in Star Wars, there's no in-universe reason the older species aren't being seen, at least none has been given yet.
     
  18. Flyboy

    Flyboy Jedi Commander

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    I'm not so sure about that. Even if some of these species are as common in the galaxy as humans are, it doesn't mean that they're native to or have migrated to the planets we've seen in the ST so far. It's not like we're going back to old planets from the PT/OT and all of the creatures/aliens that were there then are suddenly gone, we're exploring all new worlds, a lot of them being outer rim, obscure and desolate.
     
    #18 Flyboy, Apr 12, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
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  19. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    Maybe, but part of the reason Duros were apparently so prolific was because they were one of they were one of the first widespread colonizers.

    That's not to say that we're necessarily visiting planets that they've been on, but when you have a species known for its historical colonization you'd think that we'd see that reflected in the media.
     
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  20. kuatorises

    kuatorises Rebel Commander

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    We didn't know any more about Palpatine than we did Snoke.Snoke is actually in the first two movies of this trilogy more than ole Palpsy is the originals. Rey I can see wanting to know more about, but Snoke has no real baring on the movies.

    Not seeing familiar planets? How is this even a criticism?
     
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