TLJ - A great movie but an awful sequel?

a bad sequel to TFA and a bad setup to IX, but would be ok as standalone.

 

I think this narrative of it's not a good sequel or it feels like the last in a trilogy instead of the middle chapter only exists because TLJ didn't end on a cliffhanger in the way TFA did. There's no obvious trajectory for what happens next, but they set a lot of stuff up. This isn't labeled a spoiler thread so I'll try to remain as spoiler free as possible but no conflict was ended in TLJ. The conflict between Kylo and Rey still exists, it's not resolved. The conflict between The First Order and the resistance still exists, but at the end of the film we do know things that are set up for 9:

Spoiler

The rebuilding of the resistance/rebellion, a hint at the revival of The Jedi Order under Rey, and Luke Skywalker himself saying, "The war is just beginning".

We don't know exactly where we go from here but it's not like there was any resolution in anything. Rian picked up JJ's story and continued down the road with it, and now he hands it back to JJ with a few miles left to go.

 

It's funny no one seems to hate TFA anymore

 

TLJ has improved TFA for me. Heck, it has saved the entire franchise from obscurity.

 

A bad sequel to TFA - he never intended it to be a follow up to TFA, he was given far too much creative freedom and completely did his own thing, which would be fine as a spin-off but not as a sequel to TFA and not as part 8 of a 9 part epic.

There is absolutely zero set up to IX - he didn't care about VII and he didn't care about IX. This was meant to be the penultimate chapter of the saga films, but it does not set up the finale in any meaningful way. I truly don't get this. The movie suffers badly from spin-off syndrome.

On it's own, yes, it could be palatable. The lessons and overarching themes are totally fine, and I would've liked them to enter the franchise at some point, but this is not the right point. And actually, even if this was a stand-alone film, it suffers from plot-holes galore. I can imagine if he had his own characters he wouldn't mishandle them and treat them so badly, but the entire story line is flawed from start to finish, the characterisation is incredibly poor. Both the Resistance and the First Order come off as hugely incompetent, entirely breaking immersion. This film doesn't even work as a good stand-alone film, but again, he may have been able to do so much more with a proper spin-off where he didn't have to bend the pre-existing plot and characters to fit his vision.

 

i actually couldn't pick an option as to whether it sets up for ep9 well or not... i'm honestly not sure yet.

i do think that this thread should probably be marked as 'spoiler' though, as there are a couple in the OT

 

Worked well as a sequel and in it's own right for me. I don't mind the saga movies being different to eachother, but i can see where some of the fans are coming from. Where I see something fresh and exciting, others see something inconsistent and too diffeent. And that's cool i guess.

 

It's a good film but it, unfortunately, negates the entire plot of TFA which was the search for the map to Luke. TLJ tells us that Luke did not want to be found and went to Ach-To to die. Who, then, made the map? Who placed the missing piece in R2? The questions are endless. I doubt JJ will have time to address any of this in IX as the 'story' is too far along now and will, no doubt, be much more so come IX.

 

I believe that EPIX should not be seen as the last episode of the sequels but rather as the last episode of the saga. As such the next episode could even not be numbered. Maybe it will be named 'Epilogue', 'Outro' or something like that. And as such I like that TLJ makes everything possible for the next one.

 

I have the same feeling

 

Forget Star Wars for a minute....it was a very bad film. It was a Batman vs Superman type of film. Watchable if you have got nothing else to do.

 

To me felt partially an inconsistent sequel and partially a reboot of TFA.
In a strange way is both too much (for one movie) and too little (for 2 movies)
Therefore a missed opportunity and a waste of time in the context of a trilogy.. that doesn't feel a trilogy to me anymore.
That's what I said in my first comment after seeing the movie.

And I also said, that I perfectly understand why LF chose RJ for his own trilogy.
Just because of that.

Because he has a vision, an approach.
I may not like it, but sure I acknowledge he has it and a full trilogy (not one movie in the middle of a story he had to share
with other people) is the best way to let him develop something that has an inner "narrative" start ot finish,
with much more time to build acrs and plots in a compelling way and I may add... since he also has a very personal aesthetical touch
without interrupting even that from one movie to the next one.
Again, I may like it or not his aesthetic, but I feel it's better having the same approach along the same trilogy.

 

OK my response won't have too much to do with Star Wars, but I can totally feel you on the Breaking Bad thing. I never watched that show while it was in production. I just binged watched it a few years ago on Netflix. I can remember having the flu, and literally not being able to lift my head off the pillow and I watched about 8 straight episodes. When the Gus 'face off' scene happened I got off the sofa for like 5 minutes jumping up and down and screaming. My kids thought I was nuts. Laid back down and slept for like 10 hours.

And so yeah, I can remember starting to watch season 5, and it was so different. It took me a good 6 or 7 episodes to buy into the new story line. And really season 5 is its own beast - but a fantastic one. And I think Episode 9 is in many ways going to have to emulate that. Personally, I think it frees up things story wise. Snoke was a weak villain, and I could really care less whether he was still around or not (Plus one for Rian, but I don't think it was ever their plan to keep Snoke around for all 3). I like the idea of having Kylo Ren as the ultimate baddie - it is his opportunity to 'be' Darth Vader just like he wants. And we get it for a full movie. We don't have to sit here and debate for two years whether Luke will save the day and the Jedi will live happily ever after - It is Rey vs. the First Order. I personally can't wait.

 

Theatrical release of BvS or Extended Cut of BvS? Because Extended cut made that movie little more tolerable but this movie is no where near as bad as BvS. This isn't not ESB replacement but I personally like this better than Ep. 7

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 19, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 19, 2017 ---

I also binged watched BB but also don't forget Rian also directed Ozymandias (which is 14th episode of season 5) which is considered one of greatest episodes of BB among the BB community.

 

I thought it was a good stand alone film. I’ve read majority of critics aren’t Star Wars fans so it doesn’t surprise me to see the critics rated it. Not like it will win an Oscar though.

It was not a Star Wars film for me. It was the antithesis of Star Wars NEVER have I ever been more dissapointed in a film.

 

I think I agree. As a standalone I freaking love it- as a sequel I'm like 'mmm ok', and as the middle of trilogy (assuming IX takes a similar tone, structure and feel as TFA) kinda out of place.

Weird comparison- but its like the game fallout 4. Good open world shooter, awful RPG, abysmal Fallout game.