SPECULATION Vader's crispy helmet

It's an interesting idea, but the podium and the architecture/color scheme of the room that it's in makes me think that it's in First Order hands. The concept art we saw shows a similar situation in what looks like the bridge of a star Destoyer. The clues at least to me point in Kylo Ren's direction, the more interesting question is how did he come to acquire that helmet

 

Maybe Smoke is some distant Skywalker relative on Shmi's side.

 

I think kylo has it on display in his "padded room". MSW claim that was the working title for kylo's seclusion area.

 

Vader's mask maybe was a souvenir picked up by someone exploring Endor unless Luke kept the mask to remind him the darkside still exists in him, I cannot understand how he couldn't burn his father's body properly.

 

I'm still of the mind that it's in Kylo's possession based on what we've heard, but I must say the scenario you mention does sound pretty plausible as well. Perhaps it was in both places... Luke took it post-RotJ knowing the location to find it, and then Kylo returns to Luke's abandoned academy sometime after the events of the flashback, also knowing the new location to find it.

 

I voted but I honestly haven't given the helmet much thought since my initial reaction seeing it in the second teaser.

 

all I know is the helmet in the leaked concept art was way cooler looking than the crispy trailer helmet...
I'm thinking Snoke is sending Kylo out to gather these things. And that Snoke already has the helmet. Wouldn't be good to have two McGuffins. I think the saber will be what they are after now, trying to complete their collection. I'm not really big on the whole saber McGuffin idea though, that seems more like an Indiana Jones type plot device.

 

Kind of implies that Luke *burned what was left of his father* then later decided to *salvage the burned helmet as a keepsake*.
Which kind of comes across as a conflict of interests to me.

For me, this still seems like the most logical use for the helmet in the context of what we know (or don't know) about this movie...

 

OPINION:

"Who gets the saber", is, (I think), the whole arc of the film, with the irony that the one who winds up with it in the end is the one who wanted it least (Rey).

The helmet just establishes Kylo's obsession with his ancestry and his growing resentment that Luke took away his grandfather, even just him looking at obsessively can establish that plot point in an instant. The explanation of how he gets the helmet perhaps left for a novel, or just alluded to briefly.

If they do show a scene of Kylo traveling to get it, I see a brief trip to the cremation site on the Forest Moon, Wicket tries to defend it, gets burned alive by the "Christian Fire Sword" and Kylo retrieves it. Heh, I just made that up and illustrates exactly why I should never write a screenplay ever.

 

I sincerely don't understand how people think this rumor makes any sense. Can someone explain me how this is supposed to work? Finn wants the lightsaber, he gets it and plays around with it a little, he even attempts to fight Kylo and then what? He was not force sensitive and he doesn't get a lightsaber again? It was all a ruse to make us believe he was going to be a jedi but he won't?

 

My understanding is:

1. Rey isn't happy about her family heritage, she appears to be running away from it, "trying to make it on my own".
2. She has no interest in the saber at all as a result of 1 and this impresses Maz.
3. Maz tells Leia to let Finn have it as they try to puzzle out where Luke is.
4. Finn uses it, but in simple ways we saw Han use it.
5. When Finn tries to use it in a fight, he doesn't do so well. He might still be Force Sensitive but he has no idea how to fight with it.
6. He throws (transfers) the sword to Rey at a critical moment, Rey is much more adept with it.
7. When they find Luke they give it to him.
8. There is some indication Rey might be a little more open to her destiny as she hands it over to her Uncle.

I do agree though, the main treatment out there seems a bit clumsy, there's an entire capture of Rey that nobody seems to know if it happens, or if it does when it happens and there seems to be an AWFUL lot of going on in Maz's pub, the entire second act appears to take place there, which seems off to me.

I wager we have a solid 70% right now and the other 30% we get in the months ahead will patch up some of the holes and clarify some our questions.

For one thing it is odd that Maz is impressed Rey isn't keen to take the weapon, but for some reason recommends Finn gets it? I guess she wants Rey to come to her destiny under her own steam?

 

I know you are just trying to make sense of this mess but it seems like a lost cause in my opinion, there are so many things that don't make sense in this famous synopsis that I don't even know where to begin:

My first issue is with this part, why would this impress Maz? What's so virtuous about running away from becoming a jedi? It is not precisely a life of luxury and pleasure.
Why would they want Rey to have this particular lightsaber at this point in the movie? Is this the only lightsaber they have to spare? Neither Maz or Leia has another one? Leia just finds her daughter after a long time and she wants her to grab that lightsaber and go on a mission? But neither Leia or Maz is going to go with her?

Why on earth would they do this? Give the lightsaber to Finn who is presumably completely untrained?

Han uses the lightsaber to cut a tauntaun, this is perfectly reasonable. According to the rumor Finn who is presumably using a lightsaber for the first time goes into battle with it against stormtroopers and then against Kylo where he is seriously injured. All this nonsense makes not only Finn look like a complete moron but Leia and Maz as well.

What possible reason could Luke have to be hiding from his friends and family? Why could the find him now and not before?
Why does Rey handing the lightsaber to Luke symbolize that she now finally wants to become a jedi? Shouldn't it be the other way around? Luke giving her a lightsaber and she accepting it?
PS: This would probably be the most anticlimactic ending ever, not even John Williams music could make up for it.

 

"Hmph. Adventure. Heh. Excitement. Heh. A Jedi craves not these things." -Yoda

Someone has to hold it, Leia is looking to see which of the new generation will emerge, Maz offers his advice that Finn should hold it. The reason WHY she does this isn't know, perhaps as I said before she wants Rey to come to her destiny in her own way. Also she doesn't want it, so the choices are limited.

He initially uses it in similar ways to Han, later attempts to fight with it. I mean he has a laser sword, his life is in danger (perhaps he's lost all other weapons) , so why not try and defend yourself with it? I'm the most uncoordinated person ever, but if my life is on the line and a Sith Lord is coming to me, guess what I'm going to try and use the saber.

Yoda and OB1 went into hiding, waiting for a new generation to emerge to take the mantle after a big failure, perhaps that's the story here as well. Some speculate he was actually captured and marooned somewhere like the Romans would sometimes do to political enemies.

Her general acceptance of who she is and how important it is she use her talents to help her friends and family seems to be one of the primary narrative arcs of the film. I happen to like that.

Worse than a dinosaur parade and a giant orb that emits lightning being lofted for no reason from a character straight out of a minstrel show?

Trust me, Episode VII could do worse.

It's okay if you hate the treatment, but I still believe much of it is true, we're just missing some of the glue and details that round off some of the edges.

Cool feedback though, thanks dude. I wager some of the main treatment is skewed or wrong in places and that some elements of the plot are not known at all, but overall I think this is pretty much what we're going to get.

 

I don't follow, how is running away from becoming a jedi and her family the same as not wanting excitement and adventure? Are you saying no jedi should want to become a jedi? They should be forced into it? Why is it ok to go on an adventure with a gun but not with a lightsaber?

Someone has to hold it doesn't seem like a convincing reason. Why not give it to Han instead? Why to some unknown dude who has just deserted from the first order who might or might not be force sensitive but is not going to become a jedi?

Ok so he conveniently loses all other weapons fine, and he can't get another from any of the stormtroopers he kills with the saber at the base?

Yoda and Obi Wan were hiding from the empire, not from his allies. Leia clearly knew where Obi Wan was and he knew where Yoda was, it is quite probable Bail and some other high ranking members of the alliance knew where both were located.
Captured recently seems plausible to me but if he was captured or marooned a long time ago why do they conveniently find his location now?

My pleasure and thanks to you as well. I'm trying to understand other people's perspective on this rumors but to be honest I'm getting even more convinced that they are mistaken on so many issues.

 

Careful, I've watched 5 new SW movies come onto the scene in my wretched old age. Even the old Starlog spoilers from 1979 turned out to be mostly true. While I can't vouch for the validity of any of these rumors (except what has been confirmed by the trailers which is not much), I can say the history of moments like this (6 months before release) generally tells us that most of the semi-substantiated rumors usually come to be true.

This was most certainly true leading up to I, II and III. In fact in I it was uncanny how good the spoilers were. I knew Maul died at the hands of OB1 months in advance.

I think you are right though that there are some elements the treatment has wrong, or there are additional details that might illuminate some of the mysteries that remain, but if you expect something RADICALLY different from the main treatment already out there, you might be disappointed. Also all your concerns might have answers, we just don't know them yet, I just point out there's a tradition of Jedi living as hermits or self-imposed exile. It could be also capture. The rumor has it that there is a puzzle/secret the droids figure out at the very end to reveal the location.

Personally I like the overall arc for many reasons:

1. The story is simple and leaps almost immediately into action, but all the real answers and the final conflict are a slow burn, a nice combo.

2. Rey transitions much like Han does in Episode IV

3. The OT characters are all secondary, but provide a backbone through which the new characters can grow from. Initially I was worried they'd over use the OT characters. They are too damn mythical now to overuse. I wager Han is the only one that gets major screen time.

4. Luke is mythical, an aloof wizard of great power, mystery surrounds him. I love this. I cannot stress that enough, Luke is my favorite character and the more I hear he's mostly a mythic figure in this film, the happier I am.

5. I actually like that Leia and Han are estranged, it makes sense. I wager much of the estrangement has to do with how Kylo turned out, but we'll see.

My big worry is not Rey at all , I think in fact, she'll be a redeeming factor for the film overall and a huge star. it's BB-8, the use of flashbacks and the allegedly extreme measures of Leia that has me concerned. I wager Rey is beloved by critics and fans.

Just goes to show how two fans of the same product can not only have different takes, but also different concerns.

The fun part will be when the movie comes out and is utterly awesome reflecting on all our anxiety and laughing at it.

This is going to be better than the prequels, I truly feel that. I think Star Wars will be redeemed through this film, I think you'll see headlines all over mainstream media to the effect of: "Star Wars is back and better than ever!".

I am not always optimistic before these films either, my sense of dread after the debacle that is Episode I and just before the debacle that is Episode II was very, very high. For what it is worth, I have no dread at all this time.

 

I don't expect something radically different, but there are many details from the MSW synopsis that seem completely implausible to me. The one we were initially discussing, the idea that Finn gets the lightsaber and uses it against stormtroopers and Kylo but then he doesn't become a jedi is just one of them.