SPECULATION "Weak like his father"...

Well, there's certainly much to it that I'm sure will be explained in Ep. VIII, or in future novels. If anything, this movie has made the 30 year gap between Jedi and TFA even more interesting and intriguing than ever. Bring on the new EU for that era!

 

I have to agree with that, i am interested to see what happens after we get to Episode 9 and how it might come full circle and then start this new trilogy per se.

 

I reckon Kylo despised Han as weak for his lack of Force-Sensitiveness. Either that or just for being a common smuggler - something that was commonly mentioned at the EU materiat and somehow in ANH when portraying him as an unsuitable prospect for Leia - her being a Princess and all that.

I am a big fan of Harry Potter and I like how Kylo portrays a similar contradiction several characters from that saga showed - like Snape, even Voldemort at some point and Draco Malfoy - the wish of destroying whatever binding them to the Light Side of the Magic in this case.

 

There could be something to the resentment of Ben toward Han being partly related to this.

Not only because Ben (twisted by Snoke) is so dangerously enamored with Vader lore but also Ben's attitude expressed toward Rey: "Is it true? You're just a scavenger?"

JediMasterRobert

 

Though, if being weak like Han would set Ben off like that, couldn't being strong like Leia have had the opposite effect, causing him to remain good?

 

Exactly! That is one of my big questions for Episode VIII: we saw the interaction between Han and Ben but, what about the interaction with his mother?? Would she despise her for not choosing to develop her Force-sensitiveness (which is something we don't know yet at what extent she has)? Interesting.

 

To this I would add some information provided by the novel but not in the movie: When Leia tells Han that she always knew that it was Snoke who manipulated their son, Han is shocked that she never told him. She defends her decision not to involve him in this important childrearing matter by claiming that patience and understanding never have been his strong suit.

Even if we ignore for a second that this in itself is quite a problematic attitude towards a person one chooses to start a family with, we still get the impression that the power dynamics in this marriage must have been asymmetrical enough for a kid to notice. Ben may have witnessed his non-force sensitive father making insensitive remarks about his son's antics, while at the same time being sidelined in everyday decision-making by the Mater familias, Leia. To a kid, a father like that would appear weak and foolish.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 16, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 16, 2016 ---

I think there is a reason why Kylo doesn't dare even mention her existence in TFA. In the novel, there is a passage where Snoke is about to talk about Leia, only for Kylo to cut him off immediately. I suppose, talking about his father is easier for him because he's less attached to Han.

 

"weak and foolish" are likely Snoke's words, shoveled into Ben's head until made a permanent fixture over time.
and i would ascribe it right back to Snoke's desire to emphasize to Kylo Ren that sentiment is the profoundest weakness (which he repeats ad nauseum).

so really, the implication i get is that Han was probably a loving father who was maybe even too indulgent.

i suspect Kylo Ren has processed it this way:

if Ben's father had been a stricter man, a more disciplined man, a man with more strength of will,
Ben wouldn't be this wishy-washy confused emotional mess. hence his resentment. hence his disappointment. ​

 

Yep, I believe Han would be the indulgent parent type and Leia the strict one lol.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 17, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 17, 2016 ---

Yep, I recall reading that. Interesting.

 

I can't remember where I read it, but there was a theory going that Han actually activated the lightsaber and not Kylo.
It was an interesting read.

 

I imagine that it was a combination of factors:

-Han not being FS at all.
-Him being a "common" smuggler.
-Han potential being a bit "laid back" as a parent, as was his nature in general.
-Etc.

And then Snoke did everything possible to prey on/feed that pre-existing resentment, perhaps by telling young Ben lies o half-truths about his father as well. His comment to Rey during the interrogation:

"And Han Solo, you see him as being like the father you never had. He would have ended up disappointing you" or something along those lines, is very telling, as his refusal to call Han "father." He always refers to him as "Han Solo."

Ben's relationship with Leia intrigues me aa well, since his feelings/thoughts towards her are never addressed at all in TFA (and Leia obviously still sees good in him, ala Luke with Vader). And I was fine with it being more about him and Han in TFA, but he and Leia really do need to have AT LEAST one conversation/confrontation in the next two movies.

 

Right after watching TFA my feelings towards Kylo Ren were totally negative. I hated the character and wanted him finished. And I was sort of mad and sad about the post-ROTJ perspective of the Han and Leia story. But I guess at the end of the day, it has added a new level of tragedy to their story, and time has given another perspective about the one who used to be Ben Solo. It's more pity than hate now. And all that you mention makes sense. I'm interested too in seeing him confronting Leia.

 

i hope and suspect Leia's strength is going to shine. but i also suspect, if she's to bring her son back, it'll be by reminding him of the love and sacrifice of his father (which are strengths, not weaknesses).

and frankly, if i could play wish-fulfillment for a moment, i'd prefer any scene between Leia and Kylo Ren to be brief and mostly silent. would rather experience it emotionally than with a lot of explanatory dialogue. if the audience can't get that a mother who loves her son is always going to love her son no matter what awful things he might do, no jibber jabber is going to change their minds ~ hahaha.

 

I do hope and wish it is something like that, and I am already crying simply by the thought of it.

 

i swear i'm going to be soooo crushed when Rey turns out to be a Skywalker, Kylo Ren becomes the irredeemable Big Bad, and Luke drops a star destroyer on his head to win the day.

this could go so wrong is so many ways ~ hahaha

 

Lol, hope it is not like that at all!! I'm still not 100% in the "Rey is Luke's daughter" bandwagon lol. And I've gradually got the Leia's idea of "there is still light in him" point of view towards Ben.

 

i don't know what it says about me that i never blamed Ben for Han's death. up until the point on the bridge i actually felt like Kylo Ren was pretty rotten, but ironically his most rotten moment of all made me so sad for him.

but then i always felt sad for Vader as a kid, so i'm certainly not surprised. hahaha