SPECULATION What caused the Earth splitting between Kylo and Rey?

The above comments are both excellent. After seeing TFA six times, reading 1/3rd of the way through the Novelization, reading all the way through the art of the force awakens, and most important, the visual dictionary, I just flat out love this movie. The OT movies are still classics, but I think that while the TFA script and story is deliberately surface level enough for general audiences to come back in mass and understand and enjoy the movie, there is depth here and imagery and themes that are as powerful as almost anything in the best of the OT, and we are only at the introductory movie in this new trilogy.

Heck, just the character arcs of the new leads, the classic twists on the returning characters, the parenting/familial themes (Han/Ben, Han/Finn/Rey, Rey/Luke, Rey/Leia, Poe/Leia, Snoke/Kylo/Hux), the generational theme: old generation who experienced the OT events vs. new generation who like our new generation of moviegoers hadn't (Lor San Tekka, Han/Luke/Leia/Chewie/Droids, Older Resitance Leaders and Snoke/Older First Order leaders vs. new leads, younger resistance and first order officers and troops), and fandom theme (entire generation who grew up with the movies now getting to make new movies or watch them, like J.J. Abrams and film team, R2D2 model makers, etc, and us watching as fan in the audience) vs. Lor San Tekka and village as force worshippers in the church of the living force, Rey as fan of Han the smuggler/Luke the Jedi, Fin/Rey as fans of Han, First Order as fans of Empire, with stormtrooper outfits, tie fighter, star destroyers, and new upgraded Death Star type weapon, Kylo as Vader fan, Kylo and Hux as Snoke fans, Poe and young Resitance troops as fans of Leia and Resitance, being more like the Rebels were than the New Republic is now, and the themes of awakening (Rey/Finn/Han/R2/Luke, and more). Not to mention the duality of Kylo handing over his saber to Han and what that means vs. Rey handing over saber to Luke.

So much depth that continues to be uncovered with multiple viewings, Novelization, visual dictionary, further discussion, let alone once the sequels and in between books and comics hit. Star Wars a cultural hit and huge impact again: "now I haven't heard that name in a long time..." My personal love for this new Star Wars: "a presence I have not felt since..."

 

Yep. At first sight some of it may appear to be rather superficial. But then when you start to interpret the movie and its subtext it quickly becomes clear that this is most definitely one of, if not, the smartest movie in the saga. Abrams and his team really thought this through and appear to have a clear view on where the story is going. Perhaps even more subtext to TFA will become clear right after we see VIII.

 

i wonder about this. i'm not convinced yet whose agency is involved. i'm inclined to think he did it of his own free will.

can you say more about this? that's not how i read the book/screenplay ~ and i think the movie does show that she opts out of killing him. she could easily strike him when he's down, but she just seethes at him.

i mean, even though she wants to, she has to sense that there's more to him than just a "creature in a mask"? can Finn and her hear what's said on the bridge before Han dies? even if they can't, she obviously knows what it's all about when she hugs Leia and that is probably at play in her head as well.

at any rate, the literal rift does keep both of them from taking any further action, so i think the purpose stands (Force-driven, metaphor-driven, coincidence-driven, whatever).

 

For the moment I leave the book out of the discussion and only interpret the things I see on screen. The movie also departs from the screenplay, so in this case I leave the screenplay for what it is and focus on the images on screen. It almost appeared to me that the force was making the decision. I don't know whether it was the intent of the writers. I do know that in designing the aesthetics of those two scenes, especially the first (Han and Kylo), the concept artist had the "force agency" in mind when he digressed on the lighting effects in that particular scene. The sudden rupture might have had a similar purpose.

As for Rey's momentary hesitance to finish Kylo Ren. I think that at that particular moment she still has to make up her mind whether she should finish him or not. Her anger and natural response (as visible in her non-verbal expression) seems to suggest that she wants to kill him. But the fact that she does not spring into action and finish the job immediately suggest she is conflicted on the matter. Her 'goodness' seems to keep her from taking immediate action. What she would have done or wanted to do is left in the middle. The scene is structured in such a way that it is to the viewer to decide. And as such, may have some resonance in the next movie. "What did she think at that particular moment?". I know the book suggests that Snoke is whispering in her mind to kill Kylo. I also think that inclusion in the novel is not to the benefit of the strength of that particular scene in the movie.

 

i agree ~ the Snoke business is garbage to my way of thinking. i feel her anger in the scene, but i guess i never thought for a moment that she could follow through with a kill.

it might be my own biases at play here. he's so deluded and i think she knows that when he offers to train her. to my pacifist mind, putting him down ends the fight. he's given up (you can see it happen right before she disarms him). to kill him would be immoral and perhaps not even fair given his state of mind.

i'm just expressing this from my own sense of what a hero's journey is, interpreting what i see. happy to leave the book out too.

hope this sorta makes sense.

 

I feel like this movie is actually REALLY clever in many places about some of the callbacks that they do, but then also the inversions/turning things on their heads as well, and even many of the callbacks serve a purpose beyond mere fanservice. And there's definitely some really noticeable symbolism/themes present that are really interesting. I wish that certain people (mostly online) could look past the bare surface aesthetics to see more of this.

 

Yoda likes your wisdom. Much will become clear after VIII. People nowadays just want everything explained to them. They are no longer conditioned to mystery, limited transparency and the unknown in their cultural products. Thanks to the present state of modernity of course and influence of twitter and facebook: platforms which force us to have no secrets. Max Weber "disenchantment of the world" prediction come true. In many ways The Force Awakens departed from this trend. It is a very post-modern or better anti-modernity movie. That's why I like it. It takes some effort to understand it. You need to think and deal with the mystery and subtext of it.

Just think back to the prequels: those were modernity embodied star wars movies. Even the Force became a scientific phenomenom and every mystery of the originals needed to be explained and digressed upon in the prequels. That's why Lucas does not like "retro" movies. He likes and uses old mythology which is so dependent on 'enchantment', but in his inner grain he is a modernist. He believes progress is good. Movies need to be digital. Effects need to be green screen. Everything needs to be explained. This dichotomy in Lucas' person created the abomination that was the prequels. The Force Awakens drops this modernity and restores the magic and mystery of Star Wars.

This rumination of mine is deep. But I hope it explains why some people have trouble reading and interpreting the stuff that is below the surface.

 

It was a direct representation of the light side and dark side of the force and it was also the planet collapsing .

 

Planet crumbled. The end.

No tl;dr explanations needed.

 

I'm just glad it did happen so Kylo didn't end up like Darth Maul.

 

Now that you mention Maul, I'm also glad for it as well... so we don't end up with another Dooku.

 

I thought that Dooku had potential as a character actually:

-He was played by a brilliant actor (RIP Sir Christopher Lee) who radiated class and charisma.
-He was kind of "proto-Vader" if you think about it (former respected and powerful Jedi knight who was seduced to evil and became a Sith). You could have done some interesting parallels between him and Anakin in that regard.
-His being Qui Gon's former master is an interesting idea. And you could have also used that to develop and interesting dynamic between him and Obi Wan (Qui Gon's former apprentice) and Anakin (the boy that Qui Gon recruited and believed in so much).
-Etc.

But they don't really do anything with these, so it's a completely wasted opportunity. And he's just underused in general.

 

Actually, I think it's Luke working through the Force because he's finally able to actually locate Rey (who's just awakened). We've seen Kylo freeze bullets and people in motion, they've cut a scene of Maz making a ceiling collapse. I think this moment serves to show just how powerful Luke has become in his Force-abilities. He dwarfs everyone else.

 

If Luke would be that poweful, no wonder they want him back. Though he did look suprised when he saw Rey.

 

And no wonder Snoke is scared of him.

 

Occam's Razor says: the ground split due to the planet's core becoming unstable; the reason for this was in the movie.

 

i agree that Snoke is very scared of Luke.

it's not clear whether this is because of some prophecy surrounding the Jedi in general or if there's is something else particular to Luke as a person that's got him in a wad.

it seems like he believes Luke's return is a forgone conclusion at the end of TFA ~ and so he's gearing up against him.

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he didn't see surprised to me. resigned, perhaps?

 

sad, he saw her and was saddened by it. Because it was her bringing back his sabre. But I'm increasingly thinking that if she is Luke's daughter, Luke thinks she's dead. He did not expect her to come back, let alone with that rather cursed family heirloom. If he knows the power and agency of the weapon, he also knows it would only summon another skywalker.

 

definitely sad. he's old and tired and seen too much. but i think that it's just weariness and knowing, seeing the lightsaber, that he's being called back.

if don't see him recognizing Rey as anything but an agent of the Force, calling him to action.

 

just look what he did last time, he overthrew the empire practically by himself by defeating his father, bringing Vader back to the light who then killed the emperor. No one should mess with these skywalkers and we truly haven't seen their full potential. Anakin's powers were hampered by his medical and physical state as Darth Vader, and in the originals Luke was hardly a powerful Jedi. 30 years later, Luke might be a walking WMD with a keen sense for empathy.....

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 10, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 10, 2016 ---

hmmmmm you might even be right. Perhaps he really does not recognize Rey. It would be a pretty funny inversion if she would say: " but I'm your daughter!" or would ask crying "why did you leave me/us". Or "what happened to mom?" No further explanation required for those last two, the subtext would in that case reveal she is Luke's daughter. But still conjecture of course. I'm on the Rey is Luke's daughter team. But if she's not Luke, she'd better be someone unique, not related to anyone we know, something so special it would even top the skywalkers. The Force's new paradigm. It would also be cool if throughout the movie we would know her only as "Rey", that would almost really give her mythological qualities.