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What's the point of this trilogy?

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by DailyPlunge, Mar 3, 2018.

?

What's the point of this trilogy?

  1. A young woman's path to becoming a Jedi

    6 vote(s)
    7.1%
  2. The redemption of Ben Solo

    14 vote(s)
    16.5%
  3. The birth of the new Jedi Order

    7 vote(s)
    8.2%
  4. We'll cross that bridge when we get there!

    38 vote(s)
    44.7%
  5. Other

    20 vote(s)
    23.5%
  1. Moral Hazard

    Moral Hazard Force Sensitive

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    Part of it may have been as exposition to show that the character was up-to-date with the information the audience learnt in the PT.
    Part of it may have been as a logical dramatic progression - extrapolating the tragedy of Kylo Ren into an existential struggle for an ageing hero.

    In-universe it's possible there were many elements twisting Luke's perspective; depression, shame, self-doubt, prolonged solitude etc.
    I think it's possible Luke found some superficial comfort embracing a narrative that presented his own failures as inevitable due to the recent history of the Order.

    Whatever the case I think the take-home from his lesson is not that he was wrong in acknowledging and processing past failures within the Order but in concluding that ending the Jedi as a result was a necessary or desirable response. It was ultimately just another manifestation of letting fear take control - the same seductive and impulsive reaction that led himself (and the Jedi Order past) into darkness.

    Ironically, Luke's initial conclusion to take it upon himself to end the Jedi - one I think deep-down he knew wasn't right (evidenced by his failure to put torch to tree) - may also be part of same the hubris, arrogance, and vanity he was so zealous about calling out in his lessons to Rey!
     
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  2. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    It would be hard to decide the theme or purpose of any story before it has ended so really, I think that what the OP wanted to know is our prediction as to what this theme is. To think we should know by now what the trilogy’s purpose is without having seen the end is IMO somewhat preposterous.

    As far as I’m concerned the ST “is being written” rather than “has been written”, therefore i think it’s too soon to demand thematic answers. The storytelling in the ST, very much like in the OT, is character driven, which means that the plot is secondary and mainly serves the characters and their development (unlike the PT which was most definitely plot driven and therefore less engaging IMO). This means that the authors are finding the unifying answers of the ST story as they develop the story of the characters in the specific movie they have been assigned.
     
    #62 Kylocity, Aug 16, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2018
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  3. Bendak Starkiller

    Bendak Starkiller Force Sensitive

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    To continue (and possibly end ) the Skywalker story just as Lucas intended to do had he made the ST imo.
     
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  4. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    If this is the true reason, Disney can keep this crap fest of a trilogy. Jesus Christ!:rolleyes:

    All of are expected to swallow this hook line and sinker? I'm supposed to believe that the quality of the ST is at the same level as the OT and superior to the PT? If so, you're wasting your time, as far as I'm concerned. I've said it before and I'll say it again . . . the ST is nothing but a pile to me.

    MOD EDITED
     
    #64 CTrent29, Aug 16, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 16, 2018
  5. Bendak Starkiller

    Bendak Starkiller Force Sensitive

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    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Background Character

    Background Character Rebel Official

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    Absolutely hysterical that you can call the sequel trilogy a crapfest and still pretend that prequel trilogy wasn't the embarrassing, steaming pile of cringe-inducing ridiculousness that it was. Of course the ST is better than the prequels, even in its incomplete state. Anything is better than those disasters.
     
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  7. Moral Hazard

    Moral Hazard Force Sensitive

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    NdNGbXC.gif

    Well put!

    I think the distinction you highlight between plot/story and characters/conflicts/relationships is an important one.
    It nicely addresses the tension between comments like JJ's about collaboration and by Rian's about independence.

    Within this context it makes sense that writer/directors can say this...

    JJ on the ST.png
    (JJ)

    And this...

    Rian on the ST.png
    (Rian)
     
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  8. Maximus

    Maximus Jedi General

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    whilst i happily concede that i'll never be proven right (not that i'm ever right about anything mind lol).. i'll never believe that the trilogy wasn't mapped out in any way whatsoever.
    sounds like the riskiest game of chinese whispers ever!

    the spiel early on was that directors coming in would all have complete freedom to make what they want.. RJ wouldn't say any different.

    at the very VERY least, he would have had to of kept going back to the story board and JJ with his ideas until he presented one that gave them the TLJ ending that they needed for episode 9 plans.

    i'm sure RJ had a lot of licence to do all sorts with the story and characters.. but i'd bet both butt cheeks that where TLJ finishes - is precisely where JJ and Kasdan planned it to be.

    i could (likely) be wrong (miles off and quite crazy)

    :)
     
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  9. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order, Then Pie
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    i'm sure there's always been an arc ~ the overriding theme and action.
    what happens to get from point A to point B, however, was left to the imaginations of the writers/directors.
     
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  10. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    Isn't it crazy that we still argue about whether there is a plan or not? One thing is for sure, there is some kind of plan, but it's not a well thought out one. :p I'm glad Rian got his own trilogy because this pretty much means we'll at least have a over all story treatment to follow.
     
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  11. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    You’re not expected to swallow anything... I was just explaining why demanding an ultimate theme and purpose from a character-driven story which is still in the process of being written is a fruitless exercise. There is a lot to like in the PT. lt had incredible creativity and world building. My problem with it is that this very wrell realised set up did not allow the characters to breathe and find their own feet within the story... but hey that’s easy for me to say, right? And I know it’s not easy. It’s not easy to create compelling characters, and even less easy to force them to fit a fixed narrative as GL insisted doing.
     
    #71 Kylocity, Aug 16, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2018
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  12. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order, Then Pie
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    but when you don't map out the whole road by design, it's not that it isn't well-thought out, it's just intentionally off-roading ~ for good or for ill.

    i like the calculated risk sometimes. it keeps me on edge a bit because i know Ben Solo isn't safe, even though i feel 98.9% certain he ought to be. XD
     
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  13. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    I, on the contrary, think there is no plan of any sort. I would even disagree with @FN-3263827 and say there isn’t a general arc.

    I’m sure that JJ and Kasdan had an idea of where their story came from and had a rough outline of where it could go, but I’d say none of it was imposed on RJ. They just offered what they had in film and allowed RJ to extrapolate and move the story and the characters in whichever direction he wished. It’s obvious KK trusted his instincts and his ability as an storyteller. She admitted as much.

    As far as I can see they are treating the ST as an episodic series, with flexibility and somewhat improvising and allowing the characters to lead the story to some sort of satisfying end within the Skywalker Saga. At first, I found this approach dangerous and somewhat perplexing ( in particular after my first viewing of TLJ) but with time I’ve realised there is something interesting and refreshing in letting the story of these characters evolve and be told in stages by different writers with different approaches. I think the strong mythology of SW allows for this to be a success.
     
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  14. Boushhdisguise

    Boushhdisguise Jedi General

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    People had the same criticism of The Empire Strikes Back before Return of the Jedi came out. People got to chill.
     
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  15. Darth Cylon

    Darth Cylon Rebel Commander

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    I agree. If they make trilogy I would want it to be about the Rise of the First Order. Start immediately after the Battle of Jakku.
     
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  16. Moral Hazard

    Moral Hazard Force Sensitive

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    To a certain extent the general end points and underlining structure of a middle installment in relation to a trilogies key elements are already somewhat standardized.

    The key elements to the ST story were outlined by JJ in that wired interview segment I posted.
    JJ said they he and Kasdan "set up certain key relationships, certain key questions and conflicts" and emphasized that "this is a story about a young man and a young woman".

    Any director worth their salt knows the middle installment is never going to provide a resolution to these "certain key relationships, certain key questions and conflicts".
    Their brief is to explore them further, ratchet up the drama, and end the episode in a way that stimulates questions and leaves room for the final installment to provide closure.

    Like you I wouldn't doubt for a second that the producers or Story Group would make their feelings known if they had reservations about the direction the trilogy was taking. For sure there will always be oversight - it's the producers responsibility - but it's a matter of degrees.

    I figure that if the producers do their initial work well and hire creative talent who share...
    • a love for the established characters, themes, and relationships ☑
    • an understanding of how trilogy storytelling works
    • and the skills (and team) to carry a major project through ☑
    ...then the producers can provide oversight and also rely heavily on well-placed trust and good-faith.

    Rian said (paraphrasing) that he never had the Story Group shoot down any of his ideas.
    I'm guessing this shows the TPTB did their job well in hiring collaborators who were capable and "got it" and as a result enjoyed minimal babysitting duties!
     
    #76 Moral Hazard, Aug 17, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2018
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  17. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    I think in part of episode ix we may learn more about this period, in particular in what refers to Rey and Kylo. I just think that the best way for these characters to move forward is to go backwards, to their origins in life or in the force, or both.
     
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  18. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    Kylo already knows his origin in life or in the force. But he can still revisit the origin of his idol and go to Mustafar. Haha! Regarding to Rey: I think they should leave her origin out of the story or at least don't make a big deal ot of it.
     
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  19. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    I don’t mean to revisit plot points like Rey’s bloodline or Kylo’s turn to the dark, but rather an insight into Kylo’s emotional attachment to his family, to his mother, Chewie, maybe Lando, some conversations, flashbacks, mementos, something very short but very relevant to his redemption arc.

    As for Rey, she could revisit her At-ta home in Jakku or somewhere where she’s reminded of it, see for herself how much she’s moved on, how much she has learn. Maybe connect with some new injustice at a personal level, a fresh new reason to defeat Kylo and the FO or perhaps discovering further proof of the Resistance’s share in the oppression of the poor. Something that provides conflict.
     
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  20. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    He should definitley have interactions with Lando, Leia (quite hard now), Chewie and Anakin.

    IX could end with Rey being back at her AT-AT home. Haha!
     
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